I've been ruined...RUINED

[n_maher]

vinyl is for tweakers, technophobes, luddites, and the musical equivalent of civil war reenactors.

[gloco]

It's funny how the younger crowd are freaked out by vinyl, its a damn shame they missed out on that experience and are only acutely aware of CD's and mp3's.

Nothing beats vinyl>cassette transfers imho, well...except MFSL vinyl rips.

[ph0rk]

I grew up on vinyl - the old man had a ~3000 record collection from his time working for atlantic. (and stacked advents didn't hurt). I didn't have a cd player until I was 17. in 199-fucking-4.

It was fun, but so was his playing with his Edison cylinder phonograph player.

I suppose the prepatory ritual of unsleeving the record, placing it on the turntable, and reverently placing the tonearm has its appeal, though.

vinyl is for tweakers, technophobes, luddites, and the musical equivalent of civil war reenactors.

I often feel similarly about tubes. Well, tubes are more like antique cars. They may be nicer than a newer fuel-injected car in many ways, but I'd rather not deal with the maintenance.

[grawk]

It's funny how the younger crowd are freaked out by vinyl, its a damn shame they missed out on that experience and are only acutely aware of CD's and mp3's.

Nothing beats vinyl>cassette transfers imho, well...except MFSL vinyl rips.

Didn't miss out, not "younger crowd". I'm just not a believer in the "vinyl is better" religion. Sure, some vinyl is mastered better. Big deal.

[grawk]

Overgeneralize much? Vinyl is for people who prefer records.

That's what I said.

[philodox]

vinyl is for tweakers, technophobes, luddites, and the musical equivalent of civil war reenactors.

hehe, that made me laugh.

[Dusty Chalk]

That's what I said.

No you didn't.

Tweaker -- you're making it sound like this group listen to records because it gives them a chance to putz, not because they prefer the sound;

Technophobe/Luddite -- you're making it sound like this group listen because they refuse to join the 21st century, not because they prefer the sound;

Musical equivalent of civil war reenactor -- you're making it sound like this person listens to vinyl because they want to be "retro", not because they prefer the sound.

None of those address the fact that someone may prefer vinyl because they prefer the sound.

[grawk]

No you didn't.

Tweaker -- you're making it sound like this group listen to records because it gives them a chance to putz, not because they prefer the sound;

Technophobe/Luddite -- you're making it sound like this group listen because they refuse to join the 21st century, not because they prefer the sound;

Musical equivalent of civil war reenactor -- you're making it sound like this person listens to vinyl because they want to be "retro", not because they prefer the sound.

None of those address the fact that someone may prefer vinyl because they prefer the sound.

tweaker = someone's so obsessed with the perfect sound they'll go to extremes to get it

[ph0rk]

The original Luddites had their reasons too, they didn't hate technology just because.

[tom_hankins]

vinyl is for tweakers, technophobes, luddites, and the musical equivalent of civil war reenactors.

Not true. Vinyl is for people who prefer the sound of vinyl over the sound of digital. Or for people who like both depending on the recording. The closest i come to to tweaking as far as vinyl is concerned is washing the used vinyl with my 16.5 when it gets here. I listen to vinyl about 90% of the time. Hardly a tweak to the system.

[grawk]

Not true. Vinyl is for people who prefer the sound of vinyl over the sound of digital. Or for people who like both depending on the recording. The closest i come to to tweaking as far as vinyl is concerned is washing the used vinyl with my 16.5 when it gets here. I listen to vinyl about 90% of the time. Hardly a tweak to the system.

ok luddite

[luvdunhill]

Having never heard a really good vinyl setup before, I always figured it was a bunch of trade-offs and that the two camps were just being dogmatic weirdos like so many other things in audio.

any comparisons between the vinyl rigs? I'm partially biased to the Nott, but I'd be curious what you thought (yup, just call me a "rimester")

[philodox]

I was all ready to correct you as the 'rhymester', but apparently it can be correctly spelled rime as well. Weird.

[luvdunhill]

I was all ready to correct you as the 'rhymester', but apparently it can be correctly spelled rime as well. Weird.

heh... let's not get started on this, or I'll have to bring out my grievances with the way that mispronunciations of words like "err" and "bestiality" have crept into the English language...

[Augsburger]

heh... let's not get started on this, or I'll have to bring out my grievances with the way that mispronunciations of words like "err" and "bestiality" have crept into the English language...

hmmmm..... you must attend some very interesting dinner parties.

[Dusty Chalk]

ok luddite

Just because you can't hear the difference, doesn't mean we can't.

[tom_hankins]

Just because you can't hear the difference, doesn't mean we can't.

I'm still wondering if he understands who the Luddites were? Since his reference doesnt imply here. Since I use and enjoy the digital format, and own, and invest in it, I dont see the connection.

[Dusty Chalk]

Probably because he was home-schooled.

[aerius]

any comparisons between the vinyl rigs? I'm partially biased to the Nott, but I'd be curious what you thought (yup, just call me a "rimester")

Well, to be honest my experience with vinyl rigs is pretty limited, I can count the number of turntables I've heard on my hands and have fingers left over. I haven't heard VPI's Clearaudios or any of the highly promoted Stereophile brands so I have no idea how the Nottingham Dais for instance would compare with a VPI TNT6.

With that said, I really like the Nottingham Dais, record playback done right. To me, it sounds pretty much flat from 20-20k, there's no bass hump, midrange boost, treble roll-off or any other funny business. It's very fast and will keep up with any music that's thrown at it, even something like Metallica's S&M album. It's basically like taking a great CD player and then adding more resolution, more detail, and more realness. I've heard the Dais up against the Audio Aero Capitole SE, and as good as the Capitole SE is, there's still a big gap between it and the Dais.

The Pro-ject RPM10 is nice and a great value for its price, but frankly it gets embarrassed by the Dais. They're not in the same league, not even close. It's not that it does anything wrong like farting up the bass, rather, it's just that the Dais does so much more, then again for 3-4X the price it better. The Capitole SE can match or surpass the Pro-ject in most respects so I can't really justify getting one.

The Nottingham Space 294 and Bluenote Bellagio turntables were pretty interesting, the 294 is the Dais with less goodness but the same family sound. It's very linear sounding and clean sounding, I'm told this is the Nottingham sound. The Bluenote is closer to what most think of as vinyl sound, there's a definite emphasis on the midrange, and in that area it can pull out a bit more resolution than the 294, but that comes at a price. Its midrange is definitely coloured, vocals & guitars sound a little too bold, they got emphasized too much. It sounds nice, but we all agreed that it wasn't really right.

[The Expanding Man]

Interesting reading. Not too many people have had this opportunity:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=133328

[deepak]

Similar "revelation" with a modded Aries3/Avantgarde setup. I would gladly invest in a nice vinyl rig after hearing how capable that system was.

[John D.]

As a final point, if LP's are great because they are analogue, then why aren't cassettes just as good? They are analogue, but of course their resolution is way lower than an LP, which is already technically way lower than high bit rate digital.

Cassettes are just as good or better if you dub with a good deck,

specifically Nakamichi cassette decks!!!!

That being said, I have a Technics Turntable and a Nak cassette deck. Most of my listening now is with a Rega Apollo CD player thru a

SinglePower EXTREME and HD-650 headphones. I'm just getting lazy I guess, It's a lot of work flipping records

[aerius]

Interesting reading. Not too many people have had this opportunity:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=133328

Interesting, since his SACD vs. CD observations are exactly what I've encountered. The SACD has better resolution but the damn thing has the tone of a K701 in that it flattens out and desaturates everything. It sounds "hifi-ish", not real.

[slwiser]

Interesting discussion from Steve Hoffman's forum:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=133328

[postjack]

Interesting reading. Not too many people have had this opportunity:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=133328

Great read. I'd seen the thread title but never clicked on it, thanks for bringing it to my attention.