Audeze LCD-3

[arnaud]

Regarding electrostatic drivers, are they edge clamped?

As far as the diaphragm is concerned, it's basically clamped by the spacers but having basically not flexural stiffness (it's such a thin piece of plastic it can't even holds its own shape), you can't expect some "clamped" dynamics like a beam fastened on a vice... It's more like what is called "pinned boundary conditions" (i.e the membrane can freely rotate even on the very edge common to the spacer).

Or maybe you're asking about the stator itself? Maybe Birgir can say for this one (he's got to be tempted to crack this thing open at some point!).

So while electrostatic transducers are more efficient than dynamic transducers at

producing a sound field, they still are only at most 10% efficient whereas dynamic

transducers are at most 2% efficient.

It still takes real power to make an electrostatic transducer create a sound field.

Well done! You got talent to boil down what's seemingly complicated into simple understandable concepts.

The simple fact is that electrostatics do soak up a fair bit of power and Stax even had to find a way to cool the SR-009 stators as them heating up is naturally a very, very bad thing. Notice the hole in the center of the drivers, that's for cooling them. With the 007 this isn't a problem since they are sitting on the FR4 substrate.

Birgir, where did you get this info from? I went through the interviews and never could understand the reason for the center hole. My assumption was either to increase acoustic transparency at higher frequencies or gain some dynamic headroom (never could precisely work out actual displacements of the diaphragm but simulation suggested it would have to be no less than 0.1mm or 0.2 mm for 100dB output at the first diaphragm resonance, e.g. 60Hz or so).

[grawk]

Seriously, Larry didn't make a scientific study of the amps, he posted his impressions. Generally, that's perfectly acceptable. But because he liked something you don't, you rip into him. Get over yourselves.

[Dreadhead]

Seriously, Larry didn't make a scientific study of the amps, he posted his impressions. Generally, that's perfectly acceptable. But because he liked something you don't, you rip into him. Get over yourselves.

X2

[morphsci]

Although Birgir may have been a bit harsh I have to agree that Larry's impressions were pretty useless and ridiculously imprecise. But if we want HF style impressions that does the trick.

[grawk]

Harsh once, sure, but this has been overboard.

[CherryBomb]

X2

X3

Be nice.

[Tyll Hertsens]

Woot!!! Just got my LCD-3. Good listening this weekend.

[gurubhai]

Great News !

Looking forward for the measurements.

Edited October 22, 2011 by gurubhai

[luvdunhill]

My question still stands. I thought it was clearly stated and non-antagontistic.

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

It's being said the new driver is waterproof. That's well worth the $1K extra to be able to enjoy music in the bath. Maybe I should start saving up for the upgrade.

[spritzer]

Birgir, where did you get this info from? I went through the interviews and never could understand the reason for the center hole. My assumption was either to increase acoustic transparency at higher frequencies or gain some dynamic headroom (never could precisely work out actual displacements of the diaphragm but simulation suggested it would have to be no less than 0.1mm or 0.2 mm for 100dB output at the first diaphragm resonance, e.g. 60Hz or so).

Not sure, could have been in that Stax video or something one of the distributors forwarded my way.

[swt61]

Woot!!! Just got my LCD-3. Good listening this weekend.

That is great news Tyll. Now I can look forward to some meaningful and non-biased impressions. Probably won't buy due to price, but it doesn't stop me from wanting to hear what they have to offer.

[rhythmdevils]

Jesus boys. Maybe instead of attacking someone for their impressions you ought to write your own impressions or just be nicer about it. I'm all for correcting people and informing people and keeping things somewhat more factual or objective in such a subjective field, but the way you come off it sounds just as biased and it's alienating and insulting, which doesn't really help whatever credible information you're trying to share.

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Jesus boys. Maybe instead of attacking someone for their impressions you ought to write your own impressions or just be nicer about it. I'm all for correcting people and informing people and keeping things somewhat more factual or objective in such a subjective field, but the way you come off it sounds just as biased and it's alienating and insulting, which doesn't really help whatever credible information you're trying to share.

I am going to be eating my hat if anyting will be said about the sound of the LCD3 that you have not already said. (More air than the LCD2, more punch than the expensive Stax. less refined than the expensive Stax.)

Unless:

- something amazing has happened to the headstage

- and I forgot: someone might experience a strange resonance somewhere. Is there one?

(For the record, and for safety: I do not own a hat.)

Edited October 22, 2011 by DefectiveAudioComponent

[wink]

Larry, have you considered that difference in source output voltage, as well as whether or not SE or balanced inputs were utilized could debunk some of your findings?

.

x2 It would explain a lot.....

[aardvark baguette]

Its funny how headphones can drive people apart.

Its supposed to be about music.

[livewire]

Indeed!

[K3cT]

Woot!!! Just got my LCD-3. Good listening this weekend.

Looking forward to your impressions.

This really needs to play in the same field as the 007 to merit any kinds of consideration.

[johnwmclean]

Looking forward to your impressions.

This really needs to play in the same field as the 007 to merit any kinds of consideration.

Clash of the titans indeed...

... you also have to consider overall system cost, that’s where the 007’s may lose out.

Edited October 23, 2011 by johnwmclean

[spritzer]

For me this is just yet another instance of HPA throwing out "impressions" with no handle of how things work and with dubious motives. Even if we look past the ludicrous claims of power and take these impressions at face value (i.e. moar loud, moar bettah) then would anybody here not note the gain of the amp, the output voltage of the source and whether the connection is SE or balanced? After all, these are all factors which directly have a say in how loud the amp is. Two amps with the same gain (say 60dB) will sound different even off the same source if one is fed a balanced signal and the other SE just due to the different output voltages. Now there are other factors which come into play such as whether the source is really balanced or if the balanced output is simply fed through a crappy opamp phase splitter like so many of the Japanese players (Esoteric for instance, even for the silly expensive stuff).

Now add in different sources, no direct comparisons and even "I once heard..." and you end up with pure nonsense that feels a lot like the crap we are trying to get away from on HF. Others have also pointed it out to me that these are predetermined impressions for what ever reason he may have. Stuff like the "009=he60" certainly has no basis in reality, ditto for his comments on the KGSS. Certainly that particular KGSS since it is just a bit special. Who knows but I for one have seen just how crazy Larry is and there is a reason why he was on my HF ignore list for a long time.

Now back to the LCD-3, it on a balanced Dynahi vs. the 007 on a KGSSHV would be a very interesting comparison.

Edited October 23, 2011 by spritzer

[Tyll Hertsens]

I must say, I'm a little disturbed at the price increase. I get it though: it is reasonable that the best headphone in a category would cost the most. OTOH, if the best headphoe in the category is reasonably priced, that settles the price for performance at that price. In other words, with the LCD3 at $2k, we'll see lots more (dumbass) manufacturers pricing their cans there to intimate that their can is worthy. It just seems high to me. I'd like to see them priced at $1499.

Oh well, they're still very, very good.

[spritzer]

It's the age old issue with every consumer product. If you want to be taken seriously then you have to have a price to match. No way in hell the HE Audio Jade cost anywhere near 1500$ to make but since it was setup against the SR-007 then that was the price range it had to be in. Also one of the reasons why the Koss ESP950 is never considered as one of the greats. Far too cheap at 650$ with an amp...

[roadtonowhere08]

It's the age old issue with every consumer product. If you want to be taken seriously then you have to have a price to match. No way in hell the HE Audio Jade cost anywhere near 1500$ to make but since it was setup against the SR-007 then that was the price range it had to be in. Also one of the reasons why the Koss ESP950 is never considered as one of the greats. Far too cheap at 650$ with an amp...

And that is what separates so called "audiophiles" from music lovers. To jack up the price to be taken seriously really tells something about the intended market, doesn't it?

[cobra_kai]

It's the age old issue with every consumer product. If you want to be taken seriously then you have to have a price to match. No way in hell the HE Audio Jade cost anywhere near 1500$ to make but since it was setup against the SR-007 then that was the price range it had to be in. Also one of the reasons why the Koss ESP950 is never considered as one of the greats. Far too cheap at 650$ with an amp...

Well said.

[arnaud]

Not sure, could have been in that Stax video or something one of the distributors forwarded my way.

I get to meet them next week at the local headphone festival here, will try to ask (they can answer whatever they want though, in particular fake arguments if this is something special they want to keep to them ).