Maxvla Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Why would you spend that much on something like the Dark Star? Was the best sound I heard at the show. I'm not one to compromise often so I find what I want and save up to get it. Doesn't really matter what it costs so long as it's reachable with my income. Not just in audio either, my current car was about $6k more than I anticipated spending for a car, but I tried it at a dealer and loved it so I saved longer and got it. Just to prove I'm not just an endless money bag I'm really looking forward to trying one of the Objective 2 amps that are less than $200 assembled. I like the measurements first approach and want to give it a try. I'll try anything and if it's bad and expensive I'll certainly talk about it just as much as if it is great and cheap. The whole 'expensive stuff is always better' approach you see too often at HF is pretty damaging, but take care crashing down the other side. Whatever sound preferences people have, it's their preference. Advice is great, but several posts in a row of 'wow you're an idiot for liking that amp' is almost as bad as the fluff from HF. If you talk to me or read my posts you'd see I'm just as critical of a product no matter the price, or especially because of the price in the case of high priced very poor performing gear. I like reading Tyll's site because he tells it like it is yet is still willing to try anything just as I am.
The Monkey Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Save your lectures for a headphone site.
Maxvla Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 I have (but not all that much recently) and by trying to avoid it, it appears I've brought it upon myself. I have a thick skin so I don't mind it too much. Being a more realistic forum doesn't mean you have to be rude when you correct or offer alternatives to someone, though. Going through some of the links I'm already finding good stuff nobody mentions at the other place, quality criticisms of the Objective 2 and alternatives that are better, in this case.
n3rdling Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Don't the output devices reach something like 10%+ THD on the darkstar?
Maxvla Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Is that true? Sounded fine, but that's really high distortion.
RudeWolf Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Even if Darkstar is the bestest solid state device to ever see the light of day I can't help but to feel that RSA are grossly overcharging for it. Have you listened to any alternatives at that price point? At the end of the day it still is a class AB amp with high wattage and fancy case. Also open the case not that much in there... It somehow eludes me how that can cost 3500$ or whatever they are asking these days. Just keep in mind that there are many alternatives at that price point, even if they can't output 80V P to P.
Maxvla Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 On different sources I heard the LCD3 with these amps: RSA Darkstar $3,000 Cavalli Liquid Fire $3250 Eddie Current 2A3 $2,800 RWA Audeze Edition (amp+DAC) $3,950 Apex Pinnacle $10,000 As you can see the Darkstar was nearly the cheapest amp I heard them with. Ironically I preferred them in almost reverse order of price. From worst to best was 10000, 3950, 3250 = 2800, 3,000. And yes I know the casing cost a lot of the amp's price. Probably $1000 just in the case. Don't you worry though, you guys already have me second guessing myself. Starting to look at stuff like GS-1/GS-X for ultra clean power. Only problem is time, especially going the X route since Justin's site says 12 weeks for that one. I'm in no hurry currently, but when I'm ready to go it's going to be a pain to wait 3 months or more for it if I go that route.
mrarroyo Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Get a vintage Marantz, Pioneer, Yamaha, or Mcintosh receiver from the early/mid '70's and you will be surprised how good they sound after a recap and setting/checking the bias. Plus you can run a set of speakers by your workstation or better yet an energizer box or K1000 from the 2nd/3rd speaker out.
jp11801 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Get a vintage Marantz, Pioneer, Yamaha, or Mcintosh receiver from the early/mid '70's and you will be surprised how good they sound after a recap and setting/checking the bias. Plus you can run a set of speakers by your workstation or better yet an energizer box or K1000 from the 2nd/3rd speaker out. QFT most people dismiss some the vintage stuff without having a tech do a thorough service job prior to forming an opinion.
cobra_kai Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I would take a look at the OPA541 data sheet before you get too excited about the darkstar, and particularly consider the power levels you will actually be using, especially with relatively efficient lcd3. Judging by the pictures posted by Rudewolf, you are paying a lot in this 'amp' for the chassis, the two huge motherboard pcbs, the DACT, and the relays + I/O connectors. That leaves very little for the amp itself . I'm sure if you did a bit of reading about gainclones/chipamps you could put together a bridged opa541 amp with a comparable power supply, still use a DACT, and have modest diy casework for around $500. Edited January 31, 2012 by cobra_kai
Dreadhead Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) A good chip amp with lots of voltage swing: SPL Auditor and SPL Phonitor. They are very good and you can actually believe their specs. Discolsure: SPL provided me a phonitor for review which I did and then returned though I was sorely tempted to buy it. Edited January 31, 2012 by Dreadhead
cobra_kai Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 If I recall correctly the SPL amps have an output impedance of ~10 ohms which might not play that well with a low impedance headphone like the lcd3
spritzer Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 On different sources I heard the LCD3 with these amps: RSA Darkstar $3,000 Cavalli Liquid Fire $3250 Eddie Current 2A3 $2,800 RWA Audeze Edition (amp+DAC) $3,950 Apex Pinnacle $10,000 I'm guessing you can't spot what's wrong with this list? None of these amps would be considdered a good match to the LCD's particular requirements. The EC and Pinnacle are both good amps but I'd never use them with the LCD's, they simply aren't a good match. The rest, well there is a reason why we make endless jokes about those manufacturers...
Audiojunkie Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 I'm guessing you can't spot what's wrong with this list? None of these amps would be considdered a good match to the LCD's particular requirements. The EC and Pinnacle are both good amps but I'd never use them with the LCD's, they simply aren't a good match. The rest, well there is a reason why we make endless jokes about those manufacturers... Just curious as to your thoughts about why they wouldn't make a good match? I agree that most of them seem over priced for the performance that they bring to the table.
shellylh Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) The ecp audio amps (l2 or dsha-1) could be something to look into. John loves his dsha-1 and felt that the Apex Arete/Volcano was too sterile I believe. http://www.ecpaudio.com/ Edited January 31, 2012 by shellylh
spritzer Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 High-ish output impedance and these circuits don't like the back emf given off by the LCD's. We must not forget that ortho's have specific amplifier demands and a quad of OPA541's with a moar loud switch doesn't meet those...
Audiojunkie Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 High-ish output impedance and these circuits don't like the back emf given off by the LCD's. We must not forget that ortho's have specific amplifier demands and a quad of OPA541's with a moar loud switch doesn't meet those... Cool...thanks.
Maxvla Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Get a vintage Marantz, Pioneer, Yamaha, or Mcintosh receiver from the early/mid '70's and you will be surprised how good they sound after a recap and setting/checking the bias. Plus you can run a set of speakers by your workstation or better yet an energizer box or K1000 from the 2nd/3rd speaker out. I have a 1983 Pioneer SX9 (totl 125wpc) in mint condition I use with my speakers. Not sure how that helps me with something like a LCD3 though. I tried the headphone output with HD600 and HE-6 and neither sounded all that great from it. Not a big fan of K1000, but your mention of an energizer for stats has my attention. I really like the SR507, 007, and HE-60. For energizer is the Woo WEE good? That with the 507 and my speaker amp seems to be a nice budget rig.
Maxvla Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 I'm guessing you can't spot what's wrong with this list? None of these amps would be considdered a good match to the LCD's particular requirements. The EC and Pinnacle are both good amps but I'd never use them with the LCD's, they simply aren't a good match. The rest, well there is a reason why we make endless jokes about those manufacturers... Yeah I couldn't spot it. I don't really know much about the guts of these devices. I assumed the vendors would put good amps with the headphones they are showing. I was for the most part at the mercy of whatever they put on the table. Getting to take the LCD3 to another table just once was like pulling teeth.
jvlgato Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 The ecp audio amps (l2 or dsha-1) could be something to look into. John loves his dsha-1 and felt that the Apex Arete/Volcano was too sterile I believe. http://www.ecpaudio.com/ Yes, you remember correctly. But I have not heard an LCD-3, I own the LCD-2 rev.1. Plus, that's just me ... ymmv! Seems that those who like very neutral like the Arete/Volcano a lot, though some of those even felt it was maybe underpowered for the LCD-2. I do know someone who can give a good deal on a like-new Arete/Volcano!
spritzer Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah I couldn't spot it. I don't really know much about the guts of these devices. I assumed the vendors would put good amps with the headphones they are showing. I was for the most part at the mercy of whatever they put on the table. Getting to take the LCD3 to another table just once was like pulling teeth. You know what they say about assumptions... When selling audio gear people very rarely give compatability even one second so high output impedance sources are paired with low input impedance amps all in the name of using the hottest products out there. Same deal with the LCD-3, it was the headphone to have so naturally everybody wanted a set to demonstrate. Whether it was compatable or even sounded any good isn't really a concern. Just take the RWA amp "designed" for the LCD's. That's just marketing BS and couldn't be further from the truth.
Maxvla Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah it makes sense after the fact. I agree about the RWA amp, it just sounded dull and lifeless. Any input on the energizer suggestion? I don't know how all the impedances and such match up with the Bifrost > SX9 > WEE > SR507/HE60. I will be in the hunt for a much better source soon, but the Bifrost is what I have for now. The SX9 is a class A-B amp if I recall correctly, so probably not ideal (class A). I can get all the details when I get home from work from the service manual.
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