Audeze LCD-3

[Torpedo]

I can confirm that the LCD-2 with a balanced Dynalo (Dynamid if I'm not wrong) sounds great, really great

[swt61]

So when I stated back at CJ10 that I liked the LCD-2 more on SS than tube amps, that had some real reasoning behind it? I've always thought the β22 a great planer amp. And I think the same will be true of my Pass F5.

[deepak]

Best I heard the LCD-2 r1 was balanced on my Dynamite, but still too little treble for my taste.

[K.S.]

It would be nice if he used a reference tube amp like the BA or Pinacle to go against the B22. Skip the FOTM. If we want to hear about those we have 2 peoples opinion over a thousand pages we could read over on headfi.

[recstar24]

Can't go wrong with the pinnacle. That is a true bonafide TOTL reference amp.

I think I was able to talk Tyll into checking out Doug's DSHA-1, which I can attest that it does a really nice job driving the Audeze LCD2 at least. Tkam has mentioned the L-2 is even better.

[Tyll Hertsens]

while we get ruler flat impedance from the planar drivers then we have to deal with the back emf instead.

Gotta say I'm not buying the whole back emf thing.

It's a 50 ohm headphone that reaches 90dB at 0.24Vrms or 1.21mW to drive to 90dBspl.

A Q701 is a 60 Ohm can needing 0.31Vrms to achieve 90dBspl or 1.68mW.

Back emf should show up as an electrical phase difference across the driver in AC conditions.

The electrical phase response of the LCD-3 is ruler flat, much flatter than the Q701.

I looks to me driving the LCD-3 is like driving a 50 Ohm resistor (no back emf); it doesn't look particularly inefficient; the Q701 looks harder to drive.

What am I missing here?

[Maxvla]

Can't go wrong with the pinnacle. That is a true bonafide TOTL reference amp.

I think I was able to talk Tyll into checking out Doug's DSHA-1, which I can attest that it does a really nice job driving the Audeze LCD2 at least. Tkam has mentioned the L-2 is even better.

Just a page or two ago people were telling me the pinnacle is not a smart match for the LCD3.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Maxvla

[wink]

YMMV greatly.

[johnwmclean]

Just a page or two ago people were telling me the pinnacle is not a smart match for the LCD3.

I’ve seen a few people around here with different opinions...

It would be nice if he used a reference tube amp like the BA or Pinacle to go against the B22. Skip the FOTM. If we want to hear about those we have 2 peoples opinion over a thousand pages we could read over on headfi.

yeah, those threads are a sea of horse shit, but I think you need FOTM in amongst the mix - especially as some of these products are directly targeting the Audeze LCD-X’s.

[K.S.]

yeah, those threads are a sea of horse shit, but I think you need FOTM in amongst the mix - especially as some of these products are directly targeting the Audeze LCD-X’s.

Suppose that is true. I forgot that the review will be read by others besides HC ers.

[atothex]

It's tough enough writing a decent review using just 1-2 good amps. Anything over like 3 is really pushing it.

[wink]

Wouldn't it be novel if instead of asking opinions, and getting a swathe of different opinions, we all just bought what we thought would do us, and change it if we didn't like it.

Or, go to meets and listen to what's on offer and buy what we can that is closest to our ideal as dictated by our wallet.

Ask any two head-fiers of their opinion of headphone X, and get three different opinions.

[Fitz]

we all just bought what we thought would do us, and change it if we didn't like it

That's kinda the Head-Case way.

[swt61]

That's kinda the Head-Case way.

Well except that we let Mike buy it, and then wait for him to sell it to us a week later.

[recstar24]

It's tough enough writing a decent review using just 1-2 good amps. Anything over like 3 is really pushing it.

Tyll is superhuman so it's ok.

[K3cT]

Doesn't the Pinnacle have an output impedance of 16 ohm IIRC? Isn't that a little high for the LCD2/3?

[spritzer]

Gotta say I'm not buying the whole back emf thing.

It's a 50 ohm headphone that reaches 90dB at 0.24Vrms or 1.21mW to drive to 90dBspl.

A Q701 is a 60 Ohm can needing 0.31Vrms to achieve 90dBspl or 1.68mW.

Back emf should show up as an electrical phase difference across the driver in AC conditions.

The electrical phase response of the LCD-3 is ruler flat, much flatter than the Q701.

I looks to me driving the LCD-3 is like driving a 50 Ohm resistor (no back emf); it doesn't look particularly inefficient; the Q701 looks harder to drive.

What am I missing here?

There is no way the LCD's don't have back emf since it's all down to how the diaphrams interact with the air around them, the effect of the diaphragms mass (which is small but still substantial in this context) and how the various structural modes interact with the drivers.

[Tyll Hertsens]

There is no way the LCD's don't have back emf since it's all down to how the diaphrams interact with the air around them, the effect of the diaphragms mass (which is small but still substantial in this context) and how the various structural modes interact with the drivers.

I didn't say they don't have any, just saying that it doesn't look like a problem to me, and other dynamic cans have more. Is what you're talking about back EMF, or simply that the amp has to do work? Watts is work even into a resistor. If what you say is true, impedance should vary at different frequencies --- when you get close to resonances inherent in the geometry ect. Even if I agree that there's impedance due to the work being accomplished, the impedance is still flat at 50 Ohms. Back EMF in normal dynamic driver headphones exists more strongly near the driver resonance and shows up on both impedance and phase graphs.

I don't hear anyone saying you need a transconductance amplifier to drive planar magnetics, so it seems to me it all really boils down to having a low output impedance and a big enough voltage swing. That's "same as it ever was" AFAIC.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Tyll Hertsens

[spritzer]

I'd say the "moar watts" argument isn't as straight forward, at least if we look at the amps out there. The LCD's are sensitive enough so voltage isn't the issue but how many headphone amps can supply any real amount of current into 50ohm? Same problem as we have with the electrostatics, a Koss E.90 can swing a crazy amount of voltage but there is no current to back that up. The ouput stage is biased at 1ma but no hope in hell for the PSU to keep up with that. That's why a Dynalo can drive the LCD's but something like the Single Power Extreme will fail horribly.

[Currawong]

Got to get the review of the LCD-3 done. What amps should I use?

I use the Phoenix and like the result, so I reckon a similar, powerful, "wire-with-gain" amp is the way to go. I do sometimes like using them with the Stacker II, as it's a touch more mellow, so the LF, if it's better as some people believe, would be good choice too. There's a lot of interest in it at the moment as well. I reckon though that whatever amps used should reveal the greater resolution of the 3s over the 2s otherwise they are useless.

I can confirm that the LCD-2 with a balanced Dynalo (Dynamid if I'm not wrong) sounds great, really great

This is my eventual plan with a balanced Dynahi, once I get around to building one.

[luvdunhill]

I reckon though that whatever amps used should reveal the greater resolution of the 3s over the 2s otherwise they are useless

Hm, cannot say I can agree with that line of thought, seems rather circular and presumptive.

[Fitz]

Tyll is superhuman so it's ok.

[teufelshunde]

Own the 3s, and just listened to 2r1s on SS and Tube (both amps having similar topology) and preferred the SS.

The SS seemed to handle the bass better.

[aardvark baguette]

maybe this is a good match

http://www.6moons.co...auralic2/1.html

if i ever get around to getting an amp that is

Edited February 14, 2012 by aardvark baguette

[swt61]

It's pretty.