Objective2 (O2) amp

[lostcause]

I posted this on the diyaudio forum thread. So far, Qusp has agreed with me. No response from TC (as Al termed him).

This kind of illustrates the bravado employed as modus operandi, in that he states "well known facts" as such, and no one calls him on it. In this case, it seems apparent that he has never used the dual devices, and just makes assumptions based upon theory, not reality. Maybe at one time the known quality of dual devices was true, but not from my experience, at least for what I measured for.

I don't know anything about the amp beyond what I've read on his blog, and I only know a little about the way nwavguy has rubbed so many people up the wrong way, but I am interested in whether or not anyone is prepared to meet either of his challenges.

- an amp up to $450 that eclipses his measurements for the O2 in independent testing.

- an amp which outperforms the O2 in an independent A/B test

I appreciate that few of us have the resources to make either of these a reality, but I'm still waiting to see a report from someone who has built the amp and verified all of his measurements. Its fine to call the guy an 'idiot' and bag the design (I'm not refuting either of those assertions) but surely he has given the DiY community every opportunity to call him on his bluff ? Inevitably, I must be missing something here.

From nwavguy's blog:

THE OBJECTIVE CHALLENGE: I’ve given my critics what they asked for and hit the ball over the net, so let’s turn the challenge around! Can anyone show me a portable headphone amp that overall objectively performs better for even triple the finished assembled price of the O2? If so, we’ll get someone independent with a real audio analyzer to test both. The O2 should be available for $150 or less fully assembled so I’ll put it up against anything up to $450. May the best amp win!

THE SUBJECTIVE CHALLENGE: Let’s raise the bar even further for all the subjective guys. For any amp that measures sufficiently well into the desired load (reasonably close to the specs outlined in the O2 Design Principals), regardless of cost, I’ll put the O2 up against it with any popular headphones within its drive capabilities. The challenger can pick the other amp, source, music, and headphones. The listening will be done blind using an A/B/X box and the comparison will be recorded on video for publication on YouTube. The test would be administered by an independent third party (I won’t even be present). The results, win or lose, will be published on this blog. And to sweeten the deal still further, if someone beats the O2 in a valid test, I’ll give $500 to the charity of their choice. If they lose, they give $500 to the charity of my choice.

[Voltron]

Maybe you could take him up on his third challenge and do an A/B suck-off against a $50 hooker.

[lostcause]

Sure, but your mum has never charged more than 20.

[jvlgato]

I can see why your dick head friends didn't think you'd last here.

A ban is to good for you. You should be drawn and quartered.

Edited October 26, 2011 by jvlgato

[RudeWolf]

Maybe you could take him up on his third challenge and do an A/B suck-off against a $50 hooker.

If he's a reasonably strong guy then he might pull off more pascals than a petite girl.

[luvdunhill]

Regardless of the cost, the piece of shit won't drive my main cans. End of story for me.

[episiarch]

I've put my deposit in with a builder in England. He estimates end of November for completion. Basically taking a flyer on it and will see where it fits in my stable.

All my tests will be subjective.

Test #1 is just plug it in and try it: "Do I like it? Is it a good amp, for the cost?"

Test #2 is some A/B against a Mini3, since NWAvGuy found Mini3 so bashworthy. I personally love Mini3 - at least with IEMs and small non-greedy headphones, which is all I ever use it with - so O2 has its work cut out for it here.

Test #3 is A/B against a Gilmore Lite V2, since that's what I have and since it sort of fit the "any amp under $450" challenge back when Justin was making them. Again, I'll only have subjective impressions, so it wouldn't be a real answer to NWAvGuy's challenge anyway, but I'll be interested in how it turns out.

And of course there will be the obligatory internals photo pr0n.

[The Monkey]

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/discuss/feedback/newsletter/2011/12/1/do-specifications-lie-do-our-ears-lie-where-does-truth-lie-examination

From Benchmark's Dec Newsletter:

In summary, we tested three high-quality pro-audio headphone amplifiers with built-in D/A converters. All three had similar published specifications. All units are priced between $1000 and $2000. We verified that the manufacturer's specifications were accurate, but we have shown that these published specifications are not sufficient to tell the whole story. In this case, the published specifications were not a good representation of typical operating conditions.

[Dreadhead]

To be fair to douche boy his specs are into low impedance cans of I remember right so this particular issue probably isn't an issue.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Dreadhead

[morphsci]

Wait! I thought the O2 was the one amp to rule them all, but only with specific phones? How can this be?

[Dreadhead]

High impedance isn't a issue.. Low is and that's what benchmark is showing.

[episiarch]

I'm supposed to have mine next week. I don't think I have any low-impedance cans around ATM though.

Oh, wait, the K271's are 55 ohms. So I do have low-impedance cans in the house, just not ones I particularly trust to tell me a lot about amp SQ.

Edited December 10, 2011 by episiarch

[fishski13]

I'm supposed to have mine next week. I don't think I have any low-impedance cans around ATM though.

Oh, wait, the K271's are 55 ohms. So I do have low-impedance cans in the house, just not ones I particularly trust to tell me a lot about amp SQ.

the Benchmark DAC1 can strip paint off the walls, even while wearing a closed can like the K271. the O2 less so, but still sounds like robots copulating.

Edited December 10, 2011 by fishski13

[The Monkey]

Wait! I thought the O2 was the one amp to rule them all, but only with specific phones? How can this be?

Just wait for the "Desktop" version!

[Cankin]

Just wait for the "Desktop" version!

ODA and ODAC

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/11/objective-desktop-amp-oda-dac.html

[The Monkey]

Yup, and pretty soon, there will be the "Premium" Desktop version.

[rhythmdevils]

I see all of this as a loose loose situation, Ti's reputation gets damaged, people started fighting among each other about who's right and who's wrong. What could have been solved discretely instead overblown into a nasty situation.

It's pretty clear this is exactly what he wanted to happen. As far as I can tell he's just as biased as the guys who throw money at ERS paper and RGC Ground Conditioners.

[limp]

It's pretty clear this is exactly what he wanted to happen. As far as I can tell he's just as biased as the guys who throw money at ERS paper and RGC Ground Conditioners.

You can't have been following things very closely lately. He has stayed well clear of critiquing Ti's work ever since the unfortunate debacle. He do have a clear stance on the merits of 3-channel designs, but Ti is not the only one employing this in his designs.

Furtermore he has't measured or critiqued single DIY design since he started on the O2, and he has himself stated that he will focus more on commercial offerings in the future, since there are so much feelings involved in DIY audio.

And Biased? Of course he's biased.

He has spent a lot of time and money on this project, so of course he want to see it succeed. Are you suggesting that the likes of Ti Kan and Nelson Pass aren't biased towards their own principles and desings?

I'm currently working on an O2, but it is slow work. I haven't populated a PCB in years.

[spritzer]

So he bashes Ti to gain some attention, releases some hyped up DIY garbage for the noobs out to prove a point they don't even understand and is now going to focus on a commercial venture? Yup, we called it...

[Torpedo]

History loves repeating itself

[Tyll Hertsens]

So he bashes Ti to gain some attention, releases some hyped up DIY garbage for the noobs out to prove a point they don't even understand and is now going to focus on a commercial venture? Yup, we called it...

Can someone pont me to where he talks about this as a commercial venture?

[spritzer]

You can't have been following things very closely lately. He has stayed well clear of critiquing Ti's work ever since the unfortunate debacle. He do have a clear stance on the merits of 3-channel designs, but Ti is not the only one employing this in his designs.

Furtermore he has't measured or critiqued single DIY design since he started on the O2, and he has himself stated that he will focus more on commercial offerings in the future, since there are so much feelings involved in DIY audio.

And Biased? Of course he's biased.

He has spent a lot of time and money on this project, so of course he want to see it succeed. Are you suggesting that the likes of Ti Kan and Nelson Pass aren't biased towards their own principles and desings?

I'm currently working on an O2, but it is slow work. I haven't populated a PCB in years.

How about here, just now...

Edited December 11, 2011 by spritzer

[Tyll Hertsens]

How about here, just now...

I took that to mean he would be focussing his analytical critiqueing shit on commercial amps.

[grawk]

My reading agreed with Tyll.

[spritzer]

Could be. The skeptic in me only sees this as a next step to show how inferior all the commercial amps are an then voila, I have this clearly superior alternative at a low, low price...