Welcome to the Vinyl Jungle

[n_maher]

His Bottlehead isn't done yet. He cased it up for NYC but didn't finish the casework. And there's a ton of pictures of it in the NYC Meet Thread but it looks exactly the same as the one on the bottlehead website. Depending on how you think about it that's the beauty of their kits, they really are soup to nuts and you get a very nice looking product in the end.

[deepak]

I just saw immtbikers pictures. Looks really good.

[postjack]

Okay, so I've been reading the vinyl section voraciously over at audioasylum, which is a pain in the ass due to the archaic board software. I've been wading through troves of posts about starter tables, and reading wildly differing reports about the quality of various belt drive tables like the Rega series and the Music Hall MMF series, and then I stumbled upon something which really surprised me:

Technics SL-1200MKII

A direct drive table with a long, long history over which there is much debate. What I did notice is that the 1200MKII owners are total devoted fanboys, and seem to really love their dd technics. When I first started reading about vinyl, one of the first things I heard was to avoid dd tables (the staunchest anti-advocate of which is the guy who writes The Vinyl Anachronist).

What is your take on the SL1200MKII, or maybe in general the possibility that decent sound is achievable in a direct drive TT? I admit the Musician's Friend price of $399 is very tempting, but of course it is difficult to know who to believe in this debate. Some say it sounds like garbage, that it doesn't sound like "real" music, but hell, I heard that levelled against both Senn and Grado cans, and I love the shit out of them. Others, like the linked TNT audio review above, say it isn't a "giant killer", but could be a good option for those who cringe at the thought of shelling out two grand for a VPI Scout.

[deepak]

But from what I've read about the SL1200 is that most people recommend finding a vintage one and not one of the current production ones. Because the motor is much better in the vintanges (iirc they sold for $800-1200 new at the time). And buying vintage might end up costing you more than a P1 or MMF2.1 and require more servicing.

Headfi source forum has a good amount of info on the SL1200. Like you said the defenders of that table strongly support them.

[postjack]

But from what I've read about the SL1200 is that most people recommend finding a vintage one and not one of the current production ones. Because the motor is much better in the vintanges (iirc they sold for $800-1200 new at the time). And buying vintage might end up costing you more than a P1 or MMF2.1 and require more servicing.

Headfi source forum has a good amount of info on the SL1200. Like you said the defenders of that table strongly support them.

And after I posted my post up above, I found this guy:

http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/1200bld.htm

Completely checks and customizes the table to the buyer's specifications. Damn it, I am a sucker for this kind of passionate customer service. Even offers an external power supply option.

I also did some searching around the HF forum in the interim, but found the above site and have been reading about all the upgrades and shit... looks pretty badass. With Ortofon cart, Bellari phono stage, shure force gauge, external power supply, and of course an SL-1200MKII, my total is around $1200 shipped.

Not saying I'm going to pull the trigger or anything, but you know... its a cool site.

[deepak]

$1200

edit: ignore this

this is like one of those curses where you start off on a budget...and then soon enough you're way off

[postjack]

$1200

Jeez you could pay a bit more and get a VPI Scout

Scout with tonearm, decent cart, and phono stage would run over $2000. \ But you're right, if I went the Technics route I'd have to go cheaper on the options to make it worth my wallet.

[postjack]

$1200

edit: ignore this

this is like one of those curses where you start off on a budget...and then soon enough you're way off

lol too late.

[deepak]

Scout with tonearm, decent cart, and phono stage would run over $2000. \ But you're right, if I went the Technics route I'd have to go cheaper on the options to make it worth my wallet.

Thats why I edited my post, I didn't take into account the phono stage. IIRC the Scout with kit arm is $1400 at TTVJ.

[n_maher]

In my opinion, based on much advice gathered from those more experienced than myself, if you're going to spend more than a grand on your whole rig you should be prepared to include a good record cleaner in that budget or else you're really wasting your time.

[postjack]

In my opinion, based on much advice gathered from those more experienced than myself, if you're going to spend more than a grand on your whole rig you should be prepared to include a good record cleaner in that budget or else you're really wasting your time.

Duly noted.

[deepak]

And to go with what Nate said, actually have a lot of vinyl on hand. And of course make sure you enjoy listening to the format.

Someone on Vinyl Asylum recommended to start slow since you really might dislike something that doesn't have an auto-arm, having to stay there to flip sides, change records, go through the cleaning process, etc.

[thrice]

I would agree...you need to find the entire vinyl experience enjoyable for it to be worth it. On another note, I'll post pics of the Bottlehead soon. There are some pics of it in the NY meet impressions thread. I haven't stained it yet so I'll take care of that first then post pics.

[postjack]

And to go with what Nate said, actually have a lot of vinyl on hand. And of course make sure you enjoy listening to the format.

Someone on Vinyl Asylum recommended to start slow since you really might dislike something that doesn't have an auto-arm, having to stay there to flip sides, change records, go through the cleaning process, etc.

Since I listen with headphones, I am pretty much always sitting in my chair either on the computer or leaning back with my feet up. So I rarely step away from my rig while music is playing (even on my CDP I pause it).

I'm really not looking for "perfect" sound, I am looking for sound I like. And as such I have a great desire to check out all the music mediums available to me. Finding SACDs has been pretty awesome, but obviously the catalog is limited. The audiophilia masses predict that SACD will remain a strong niche market for classical music, but beyond that... hell, some folks over at sh.tv predict the compact disc itself will be all but obsolete in three years, replaced by MP3 et. al. But for some reason, at this time, vinyl still seems to be strong. As a niche market, true, but still.

There is, of course, the romance of it all: big albums, big fragile records, the careful ritual of it all. All of this is attractive to me. I spend many hours lovingly cleaning my fountain pens, I see no reason why I wouldn't also find vinyl cleaning calming and satisfying.

What is daunting to me is that I do not have a ton of vinyl on hand. My vinyl collection consists of those picture disc DM singles from Playing The Angel, David Bowie's "Heroes" and "Low" (which I bought for the express purpose of removing the actual record and having the album covers framed. hanging in my hallway now, great albums), an autographed Jedi Mind Tricks single "Heavy Metal Kings", and, for some reason, a handful of Cabaret Voltaire albums. I must have bought these as a lot on eBay or something, I don't even own any Cabaret Voltaire CDs (Somewhere I also have the Tool "Aenima" LP and some old hip-hop LPs I bought when I had a cheapie TT in high school [bone Thugs E. 1999, Cypress Hill III], John Lennon "Imagine", Man Of La Mancha ST, Bob Dylan's "Nashville Skyline" and "Rebels", though there is a good chance I gave these to my ex girlfriend and never got them back). So not exactly a reference collection. \

If I truly wanted to start out cheap, and if I have my heart set on the Technics, I could get that table for $400 from musician's friend, and a cheap Grado or Denon cart to accompany it (anywhere from $40-150), and a inexpensive phono stage like a NAD PP2 or Hagerman Bugle ($100-$150).

I do appreciate everyone's input, as well as your cautionary notes. What has given me the greatest amount of pause is jpak's comment about having a good vinyl collection on hand. That I do not.

[n_maher]

I do appreciate everyone's input, as well as your cautionary notes. What has given me the greatest amount of pause is jpak's comment about having a good vinyl collection on hand. That I do not.

Then you really have to ask yourself, is it a better use of $1000 to build a rig that will have limited use given your current collection of vinyl or would you be better off and closer to achieving sound that you like by improving other areas of your rig? I started building towards a +/- $1000 vinyl rig and ultimately decided that it wasn't worth it. I've got 40 or so albums but have no desire to go hunting around for more or pay premium prices on ebay or wherever to get the ones that I do want. So I pulled back my rig plans even further and I'm now shooting for around a $500 rig. I've already got my Thorens TD 160 ($150) and my Hagerman Bugle ($75) is built but not cased so really all I've got left is to get a cart. I'll probably go with one of the lower end Grados and call it a day which will put me well below the $500 mark. I hope to have something that sounds decent and allows me to enjoy what vinyl I do have and leave it at that.

My 2

[postjack]

Then you really have to ask yourself, is it a better use of $1000 to build a rig that will have limited use given your current collection of vinyl or would you be better off and closer to achieving sound that you like by improving other areas of your rig? I started building towards a +/- $1000 vinyl rig and ultimately decided that it wasn't worth it. I've got 40 or so albums but have no desire to go hunting around for more or pay premium prices on ebay or wherever to get the ones that I do want. So I pulled back my rig plans even further and I'm now shooting for around a $500 rig. I've already got my Thorens TD 160 ($150) and my Hagerman Bugle ($75) is built but not cased so really all I've got left is to get a cart. I'll probably go with one of the lower end Grados and call it a day which will put me well below the $500 mark. I hope to have something that sounds decent and allows me to enjoy what vinyl I do have and leave it at that.

My 2

[deepak]

So you gave in to the Technics fanatics and got a 1200

[postjack]

So you gave in to the Technics fanatics and got a 1200

Hey how did you know?? I didn't tell any of you. That was on my secret alter-ego at HF.

Yeah, I placed the order last night from kabusa. Kevin was really great in the pre-sale. He answered all my questions promptly and politely, and is obviously passionate about the 1200 and analog in general. So yes, I paid $75 more then I would have at another site, but I'm always willing to pay a little more for great service, not to mention that he tests and tweaks each TT before he ships it.

Bought the SL1200MK2 with Groovemaster integrated cart and the Bellari VP129. I'll have to do some rearranging on my desk. I'm really looking forward to it! I'm going to order an Audioquest carbon fiber brush just to dust off the few vinyls I have. If I find myself enjoying the vinyl experience, I'll invest in a Nitty Gritty Disc Doctor III from audio advisor.

I also bought my two of my favorite albums off of eBay last night: Simple Minds "New Gold Dream 81-82-83-84" and "Sparkle In The Rain" for $6 shipped. However, I'm going to try to concentrate on just buying LPs that I don't already own in another medium, for the time being.

[deepak]

Cool I'm looking forward to hearing what you think about the setup.