Should I give up on the K1000?

[Leonardo Drummond]

Cutting to the chase: it seems I’m in a headphone identity crisis of sorts. I’ll try to be as brief as possible, and I would dearly appreciate some help. I hope this is the place for it, and I apologize in advance if it isn't!

I’ve recently found audio bliss with an O2 MKI, and right now my K1000s don’t get much head time. I got a Little Dot MKVI to use with it, and to be honest I’m not quite enjoying the result as much as I wanted, but I think to some short extent it could be solved with better tubes.

The issue is that, with everything I’ve heard with it so far (nothing high end except for a Marantz PM-11S2), the AKG's midrange is harsh and dry sounding and the highs are weird somehow, they go into the mids and it never seems to strike a good tonal balance to me, especially compared to the O2. However, I absolutely love its huge soundstage and open feel.

So here’s my dilemma: if I sell both my K1000 and the Little Dot I’ll have enough to afford one of the all-time great headphones, such as the R10 and Qualia. However, I’m worried about losing the openess and sense of special occasion I get with the AKG, even though so far I’m not being able to get past the tonal balance I’m hearing. Also, I got a pretty much NOS bass-heavy K1000, with original box and case and all the paperwork... it even smells like new, really. I see it as something special to have, even if I’m not enjoying it that much.

Do you guys think it’s possible to “fix” the problems I’m hearing with it with a better amp and source, or is it never going to change enough? I could either try to fix them with a better amp or give up on them and go for one of the other great options out there, but then I guess I won’t have the openess I love, am I wrong? Another option would be to maximize my O2s performance with a top notch DAC and a KGSS, but then I’d love to have something different to the Stax for certain occasions.

What would you guys do?

[blessingx]

Never heard the Little Dot MKVI with the K1000, but hard to believe it would be a great match. Ton of "recommended K1K amps" (like Apex Peak and B22 I currently own) that aren't the synergy I'd recommend. I'd put the K1000 above your "all-time great Qualia", but to each their own. O2 MKI is certainly a wonder, so pick your poison and soar with it.

[jvlgato]

Don't give up on the k1000 until you've heard them with a real amp.

[Tyll Hertsens]

The Qualias suck. Use an Aleph one or some good amp on the K1000, or get the LCD2.

Or something...

Posting fucking drunk from my MBP corporate bullshit machineee.

[mulveling]

Please don't be one of those guys that throws nice NOS tubes (e.g. 6H30-DR) at a cheap chinese amp.

I do agree that your K1000 is kinda special and will be difficult to replace once sold. It was never my end-all either, but it did sound very very nice out of a friend's Audio Valve RKV Mk II. When I had my pair - this was years ago - I ran them out of some Outlaw M200s. These monos were seriously not up to par, and the mids were fairly grainy as you describe.

They should sound much better out of an RKV Mk II, if you can track one down on the used market. You won't even need the impedanzer. However, they still won't have the gorgeous mids of the R10 - or the weight of the L3000 - or the smoothness of the electrostats. That said, I really really like the Qualia, but if you're looking for lush/seductive mids then that's the LAST headphone on earth you should be buying.

[blessingx]

The LCD2s are so not in this category. Drrunkken Revverbb.

Edited May 26, 2011 by blessingx

[nikongod]

Have you experimented with wearing the headphones differently?

I find the K1000 sound best (to me, bla bla bla) pushed way far forwards, with the headband in front of the earpads. They are roughly parallel to a line between my forehead and where my spine connects with my shoulders, perhaps a little more vertical. Not what you would normally think to try, right? But then, your headphones sound like shit where mine are actually pretty nice.

Too many headphones get written off unfairly because they are as sensitive to placement as speakers and the vast majority of people put headphones on without any effort in moving them around to find a sweet spot. Would you put a $10k speaker in a room without experimenting with placement? Of course not, why would you do that with a headphone?

[Leonardo Drummond]

Guys, a big thank you for all the input! It seems I won't give up on it just yet!

blessingx, I had highish hopes for it, some people had good results. I think Little Dot even used a K1000 to voice it, but it's hard to see how with those tubes. It sounds too bright, something it doesn't do usually with the other gear I've tested it with.

jvlgato, that's the thing, I thought plugging it on a Marantz PM-11S2 would give me a huge difference considering it's a high-endish integrated amplifier, but while it did give me a good result, it wasn't enough to soften the mids... so I wonder if anything would!

Tyll, there was an Aleph for sale on Audiogon a while ago, but I can't remember how much it was! How much do these cost nowadays? By the way, I am a follower of your new website, it really is fantastic! I was quite surprised to see you here now!!

mulvelling, this is my biggest worry, it would be horrible to get rid of it and regret it since it's such a special pair, I'd be surprised to know that there;s another bass heavy pair in this condition... also, great tip about the Audio Valves, I had forgotten they existed! They seem to be fantastic. And thank you (and Tyll) for talking me out of the Qualia... I got to say, I was tempted!

[Leonardo Drummond]

nikongod, you're definitely right! I did experiment with it though, especially with the swivelling ears. It still didn't solve that midrange problem... this is my main issue with it, it just sounds hard! I thought tubes would soften it, but that's not what I'm hearing right now!

Speaking about positioning speakers, I had a hard time with my Jamos here in the living room! I know how it feels hahaha!

[Voltron]

That shitty amp cannot power these headphones with any tubes you put into it, plain and simple.

Posting jealous that I am totally sober and in my office at 7:30pm.

[n3rdling]

Hi Leo

[blessingx]

A Pass Aleph 30 went for $1K and an Aleph 30 clone went for $575 on Audiogon recently. I bought the clone.

[Leonardo Drummond]

Oh dear Voltron, is it really that bad? Lol!

Hey Milos!! You're here as well! See what the O2 did to me? Hahahahaha! I've never heard anything quite as delicate and seductive as them. It's just unbelievable!

blessingx, thanks for the clarification! Less than I expected, and definitely worth looking into. Do you hear any of this hardness with the midrange I'm talking about at all?

[The Monkey]

Those Little Dot amps really do suck.

[jvlgato]

Any chance you can get to a meet and try them out with several good amps and sources?

[Wmcmanus]

Any chance you can get to a meet and try them out with several good amps and sources?

This is a great suggestion. Not only do they need lots of juice, but there's also the flavor issue, and it would help if you could sample them with several different amps. This would help you to decide, a) whether you think they're worth keeping at all, and if so, at what cost? The cost factor for K-1000 amplification can vary by a country mile, and what makes one person happy might not do it for someone else.

Of course, even if you could get to a meet, it will be far too loud to make any sense of even open headphones, let alone the K-1000. So I guess that might not be such a good idea afterall...

[jpelg]

What is your source? Even the best amp won't make the K1000 sound "right" to you if your source isn't up to snuff. I love tubed sources, such as Modwright gear, with the K1000's.

[Tyll Hertsens]

By the way, I am a follower of your new website, it really is fantastic! I was quite surprised to see you here now!!

Thanks, and this place is home ... I'll be around.

I find the K1K "hard" sounding too without proper amping. In my experience, you need a really fast and clean amp of about 20-50Watts to drive them well, when you get it, the highs line up nicely, but not as extended as I'd really like. The bass never really gets there, but I did hook one up on an Aleph 1 with a sub in the room and it was pretty cool.

@ Ari Do you find a loss of midrange with the K1K so far away from your ears?

[Leonardo Drummond]

jvlgato and Wmcmanus, unfortunately that's nearly impossible for me... I live in Brazil, the land of no-audio! Prices are astronomical (stuff like US$2400 for a HD650) and most people don't even know you can spend over $100 on a pair of headphones! I travel quite often, but so far I haven't had the luck of going to a place where a meet is happening... but that's something I've always wanted to do, since everything I buy is based on reviews and suggestions, rarely have I got the chance of listening to something prior to buying. And I believe a meet like this would in fact solve so many problems to me!

Tyll, as I'm new here I'm surprised by this, I mean, you're the guy from Inner Fidelity, pretty much a celebrity in the headphone world!!

It's funny (in an extremely good way) to see you and Kevin Gilmore just being regular guys here! Makes head-case even more intimidating, though... hahahaha!

It's good to know I'm not alone with this, cause at many points I figured the K1000 just wasn't for me, which would be a real shame. I'm happy to know that there seems to be a way around it! I'm not too bothered about the bass though, to me it's ok! The steep roll-off only affects a fraction of the music I listen to, and above it, the K1Ks bass is fine for me! It's not the O2s bass, but it's enough for my tastes!

jpelg, I'm using a DacMagic in my bedroom's setup, but there's an Electrocompaniet ECD-1 in the living room as well. I know that theoretically the Cambridge is not on par with the headphones, but to these ears it has quite an even tonal balance and does a respectable job! My plan is to get some proper amping for the K1000, and my budget will be around 3K. If I get like an Aleph for 1K, then I'll have 2K left and I could get a better source – Milos already suggested some good vintage DACs – and/or, who knows, have someone build a KGSSHV for me. If that's at all possible, I mean, I'm a complete moron when it comes to DIY. Should I even contemplate that as an option?

[complin]

I dont think you will find the Qualias or the MDR R10 anything like the K1K, its like comparing chalk and cheese

As Tyll said the the Nelson Pass amps have a good reputation with the K1000, particularly the First Watt F1. Also the Audiovalve RKV and possibly Red wine Audio. Personally I use mine with a speaker amp setup, the EAR V20, but its rather expensive just for the K1000's alone.

IMHO the nearest thing i've heard to the K1K in terms of soundstage are the 30 year old panoramic Stax Sigmas. The Sony R10 are a completely different animal to the K1K, more laid back, with a rich enveloping sound(a bit like the 007's). At first like all great headphones they dont impress but for me one of my favorite dynamics. I cant comment on the Qualias as i've never heard a pair but understand they can be very analytical and bright sounding, perhaps more so than the K1K. Also heard its difficult to get them to fit and seal properly which is why I believe many peopel have sold them for that reason. They have three headband sizes (S,M,L) with the M size being a little large for most people's heads.

Yes you will find a lot more sanity here than the other place. People here tend to speak from and share actual experience and tell it as they see it (please or offend ) In the other place you find many recommend stuff they have never owned let alone heard.

With this community being into DIY in a big way perhaps you could consider building something for your K1K's? If I had the time (and expertise) i'de love to try and build one of Kevin's designs.

[Horio]

I run my bass light K1000's through a Cavalli EHHA tube headamp, and I think its a great combination. I wouldn't say the K1000's are the best all around headphone, but they do some things that still blow me away (ie, acoustic guitar & small ensembles). I plan to hold onto mine for a very long time and supplement them with some SR-00X's eventually.

I'd love to hear the K1000's through a Firstwatt F3 amp. If you have any DIY skill or would like to learn, I would highly recommend one of the Nelson Pass Firstwatt amps.

[Clarkmc2]

FirstWatt F1 or F2 are the ticket for single driver. The F2 is pretty simple as these things go.

[jvlgato]

Clarkmc2! I think we shared an equipment room in CanJam last summer. Scary good DIY knowledge. Nice to see you!

Leonardo, I really take for granted how fortunate I am that there have been some great meets virtually in my own back yard. As wmcmanus mentioned, meets can get loud, and are not the best way to get a really good demo, but I can get a general feel for what I liked at meets. Certainly better than not hearing them at all! The only time I heard a K1000 was on an old Eddie Current 2A3, and well, it was a very good experience.

Perhaps one day you can cross the ocean ...

Edited May 26, 2011 by jvlgato

[mrarroyo]

Hi Leonardo, if I may suggest try to find an older Marantz or Pioneer receiver from the 70's. Something along the line of a Marantz 2230 or 2275 as well as a Pioneer SX950 or SX1050. Then use the speaker tabs to power the K1000, I have done so with great results for very little money. This units can still be found (if you look long and hard) for under $100 USD, although lately they are going for a lot in eBay. Thankfully there are plenty of thrift stores and garage sales!

Edited May 26, 2011 by mrarroyo

[Leonardo Drummond]

complin, that's actually one of the main reasons why I've considered the Qualia more than the R10. Judging by what I've been reading, it apparently tries to achieve the same sort of tonality as the O2, is that right? It's one of the headphones I really really want to try someday! So expensive though... about the Audio Valve though, I can't find much about it, it seems to be pretty rare! How much does a used one tend to cost? And regarding DIY, as much as I'd LOVE to learn, I don't think I have the skills! If it was just soldering following pictures it would be fine, but I suppose some knowledge about circuitry and basic electronics are needed, and unfortunately I don't have any of those!

And you know, not long ago I started to understand what the other forum and most of its members really are. Not that it doesn't have its merits – it does, a lot of it in fact, and there are so many really amazing people there! But at the same time, I started to understand what head-case stands for and what you guys are trying to accomplish here. I really admire this!

Horio and Clarkmc2, do you guys think it's possible for someone without any DIY knowledge of any sorts to build one of those? As I said to complin I'd love to learn, but I don't think I've got what it takes...

jvlgato, I can't stress enough how lucky you are for having the opportunity of going to these meets! Even though, as you said, things can get quite crowded and noisy, it's enough to just have some first impressions about what you might or might not like. I've actually just organized a little meet with some people from a Brazilian forum, but it's only like 20 people and there are not many good setups, mostly just IEMs. It will be more about getting everyone together and for them to listen to the AKG and the O2! I did try to find meetings when I travel, which is sort of like twice or three times a year, mostly to Europe, but I haven't had any luck yet... maybe one day I can go when I know there will be a CanJam! I just can't imagine what it must be like to have all the greatest headphone gear there for you to audition all in one place...

mrarroyo, I've considered this and I got an old JVC integrated, but unfortunately it doesn't do the job very well as it's got quite a proeminent midrange which only makes the AKG sound worse! I can imagine Marantz's receivers are very different though... but do you think they would be close enough to an Aleph?