FiiO E7 DAC Held Captive & Tortured

[n_maher]

As an engineer I am insulted.

[grawk]

As an engineer I am insulted.

hes also full of shit, since he was hyperbolizing

[luvdunhill]

I'm an -=engineer=-.

FTFY

[jvlgato]

He doesn't know what that word means. He's an engineer.

[NwAvGuy]

Yes, exactly. If you pulled your head out of your ass long enough to understand what this forum is about, you'd already know that.

You do realize that's not much better, right? How about you try making your main goal here to be a contributing member of the community, and then worry about proving your points. Taunting everyone to come take your challenge just to satisfy yourself isn't much better than trolling. And before you go "lolol u afraid of my test so u call it trol" realize it has nothing to do with the test itself, and everything to do with you acting like such a contentious prick.

I've tried to contribute here and that's been, at best, a mixed bag. The start of this thread is a good example.

I've tried sarcasm, which seems to be the preferred method of communication on Head-Case, and that's been a bust. And, I've tried standing up for myself but that just makes me a "contentious prick". Sure I get there's a double standard but the rest seems mostly random.

I'm not so stupid as to think trolling of any sort is going to fly here--especially when I'm already not scoring many points. I was, and still am, entirely serious about a blind test. As Deepak said, it's a great way to compare gear.

I think it would be really interesting to have someone who's actually respected here weigh in on the E7 in a blind test. I'm not getting much of any respect so I was looking for someone like Tyll who has plenty.

[donunus]

Isn't this a headphone forum? Isn't the whole point to drive headphones? Especially for portable gear? Like I want to carry around 3+ devices all wired together? The fewer the better for portable use.

In this case, just solely as an amp, I agree that the e7 is a great value product but when used as a DAC, we can't carry it around when used that way anyway since it only takes a USB input. Whats the point of all your talk saying its better than this dac and that dac when we can't really even use it as a frickin DAC! In order for comparisons to be fair, we need to connect all the dacs to as high end an amp we have as possible to see the shyte these things can spit out right? All those measurements of the dac section won't that much matter after all if only listened to through its puny amp section.

[donunus]

NwAvGuy, To add to the post above, I don't even know these other guys here personally except for maybe buying and selling stuff to some of them before or chatting with some of them through PM, and I did have some respect for what you were trying to do in spreading your truth about these dacs, but to spit at me with some sarcasm when i was just replying to you seriously about your topic is like saying that you are only here to piss people off anyways. I wish I could do to you like what one of the guys did to me before... It was something like this hehehe

[Fitz]

I've tried sarcasm, which seems to be the preferred method of communication on Head-Case, and that's been a bust. And, I've tried standing up for myself but that just makes me a "contentious prick". Sure I get there's a double standard but the rest seems mostly random.

It was a bust because you continue to ignore all the times you've been told this is indeed a closed social club, not an ordinary headphone forum. How daft do you have to be to think the way that friends here talk to one another is the same way any random newcomer should talk to them?

And no, you're not a contentious prick for "standing up for yourself", you're a contentious prick for being a contentious prick. I'm not sure how more clear I can make it.

I'm not so stupid as to think trolling of any sort is going to fly here--especially when I'm already not scoring many points. I was, and still am, entirely serious about a blind test. As Deepak said, it's a great way to compare gear.

Yes, blind tests are a very useful way to compare gear, except, as has been made abundantly clear by your actions here and on other forums, you're not interested in comparing gear nearly as much as you're interested in controversy and contention.

I think it would be really interesting to have someone who's actually respected here weigh in on the E7 in a blind test. I'm not getting much of any respect so I was looking for someone like Tyll who has plenty.

Backpedal all you want, but everyone could see plain as day what you were trying to accomplish when you tried to intimidate Tyll into becoming a part of your mess.

- - -

You're really becoming a broken record here, so unless you intend to actually develop a genuine interest in being part of the hobby with us, I think you can just fuck off. Actually, since you've deliberately ignored or responded negatively to some members' sincere attempts to help you out here, how about you just fuck off period. 'kay?

[morphsci]

[Grahame]

Maye be if he measured something by http://www.bellatoneaudio.com/ we'd be impressed

[NwAvGuy]

In this case, just solely as an amp, I agree that the e7 is a great value product but when used as a DAC, we can't carry it around when used that way anyway since it only takes a USB input. Whats the point of all your talk saying its better than this dac and that dac when we can't really even use it as a frickin DAC! In order for comparisons to be fair, we need to connect all the dacs to as high end an amp we have as possible to see the shyte these things can spit out right? All those measurements of the dac section won't that much matter after all if only listened to through its puny amp section.

That makes sense. I was referring to say carrying a laptop around that needs help from a DAC. You plug the E7 into the laptop via USB, plug your headphones into the E7, and enjoy. Lots of people buy E7's (or uDAC-2's) to do just that.

I really didn't understand your point so my apologies for the less than helpful response. It's a portable piece of gear, this is the portable forum, so I was assuming portable use.

[NwAvGuy]

I think you can just fuck off. Actually, since you've deliberately ignored or responded negatively to some members' sincere attempts to help you out here, how about you just fuck off period. 'kay?

You're a manufacture here. I have no idea if that changes your view of me and my blog but it's no secret I'm into objective reviews of gear. In some cases, I've been less than charitable when manufactures get it wrong. And, as a rule, audio manufactures seriously dislike blind tests. So I'm sure some manufactures would love to see me fuck off and disappear.

I'm trying to add more science to what's mostly a very subjective area. And, just like Peter Aczel didn't win any popularity contests, I don't expect to either. But I'm not trying to stir shit up just for the point of stirring it up. Like Aczel, I'm just trying to review popular stuff and put the facts out there. It might be comparing two headphone amps, exploring design topologies, correlating measurements with perceived sound quality, and yes, blind listening tests. I'm just a few months into this and learning a lot.

I know I'm not the only engineer or person here capable of making measurements, but we're a relatively small minority. The bias will always be heavily towards the subjective side of the scale and that's fine. But it seems there's room for more objective contributions.

If the general consensus is I should "fuck off" and give up on Head-Case, I'll be happy to. That was my impression before, some said I was just being thin skinned, so I came back for more abuse and inadvertently found plenty. So feel free to vote me off the island if I don't have enough to contribute and I'll get my abuse elsewhere.

If the consensus is I should stick around, I'll try to keep in mind the constructive comments previously directed my way and hopefully find some appropriate niche here.

[morphsci]

You really don't get it. People have no problem with your measurements, the problem is

Edited May 16, 2011 by morphsci

[Filburt]

I'm fully expecting some form of "no response"... Many here talk a mean talk I'm just curious if anyone is willing to put their ears and rep/cred on the line? Or will the challenge just be ignored?

Seriously, this forum is full of posts about all the obvious differences between headphone amps. So how hard can it be to distinguish a $99 Chinese mainstream mid-fi crap amp/DAC from a genuine high-end amp? It should be easy right?

I got trashed for even suggesting the E7 is respectable. I'm just asking for someone to help verify it really *does* obviously suck. Tyll is perfect. He does this stuff for a living.

A lot of the antipathy you have received has been due to your attitude towards even mild criticism and disagreement, and a tendency to generalize about the knowledge, motivations, and experience of other parties in a manner people find insulting. I get that you feel like some people have been unfair to you or inappropriately severe, but that's kind of life in a hobbyist scene and I think you are letting it hurt the long term success of your project by burning bridges so early on. You cannot reasonably expect people to respond well to such a severe and absolutist tone, whatever the merit behind your views. Some people who initially respond poorly to your findings and inquiries may, with an appropriate level of diplomacy, be more willing to engage with you. If you want to be a crusader and polemicize that's obviously your decision, but that isn't the way to have a productive debate and be successful in reaching out and informing people in many circumstances.

I'd still like to see you stick around because I think there is a potential here for some valuable dialogue and it's interesting work, but you seriously need to chill out, irrespective of whatever community you decide to participate in.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Filburt

[Fitz]

You're a manufacture here. I have no idea if that changes your view of me and my blog but it's no secret I'm into objective reviews of gear. In some cases, I've been less than charitable when manufactures get it wrong. And, as a rule, audio manufactures seriously dislike blind tests. So I'm sure some manufactures would love to see me fuck off and disappear.

Heh, you're only further proving your ignorance by making the suggestion that my attitude towards you has anything to do with my profession, or that I'm even a "manufacturer who got it wrong".

Protip: I primarily do service/repair, not manufacturing, and thus am pretty much completely unaffected by equipment reviews. Nice try though.

Maybe you can try again when you a) know your audience, and b) develop a bit of reading comprehension (I made a comment in favor of blind tests in the very same post you responded to suggesting that I dislike them).

[NwAvGuy]

...but you seriously need to chill out, irrespective of whatever community you decide to participate in.

Point taken. And thanks. Like I said, I'm still learning. It's never my goal to be closed minded, and it's rare that I'm trying to be an ass, but perceptions are everything and I clearly need to change my approach. Part of my problem here was assuming I was "in" when it's now crystal clear I'm still very much an outsider to this group.

[NwAvGuy]

Heh, you're only further proving your ignorance by making the suggestion that my attitude towards you has anything to do with my profession, or that I'm even a "manufacturer who got it wrong".

Protip: I primarily do service/repair, not manufacturing, and thus am pretty much completely unaffected by equipment reviews. Nice try though.

Thanks. Just to be clear I wasn't trying to imply you are a manufacture who got it wrong just that I'm less than popular with a few that have. So my apologies if you took it that way.

Mainly I was trying to ask if enough others share your view.

[Driftwood]

Now you are just being purposefully obtuse. Basically what you are doing is the equivalent of wandering into a group of people who talking and joking around with each other, and after strolling over and hearing someone jokingly insult their friend, you just jump right in and start insulting everyone to "fit in" and after wondering why you are getting chilling looks, start challenging everyone to a fight.

[Filburt]

Point taken. And thanks. Like I said, I'm still learning. It's never my goal to be closed minded, and it's rare that I'm trying to be an ass, but perceptions are everything and I clearly need to change my approach. Part of my problem here was assuming I was "in" when it's now crystal clear I'm still very much an outsider to this group.

Being an effective contributor with a project such as this involves a measure of humility and having compassion for your audience. It isn't enough to be right, even if it seems as though that should be enough.

As to whether you are an 'outsider', there is certainly a social club dynamic, but that's not atypical in a community. It isn't a group unified in opinion or interests, though. There are other members here who are interested in the empirical side of audio, including myself, and have on several occasions expressed many of the same sentiments you have about the audio business and the hobby at large. In this case, knowing your audience better may have helped, and I think this is one of the reasons new members are ordinarily advised to lurk for a while before posting.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Filburt

[jvlgato]

Part of my problem here was assuming I was "in" when it's now crystal clear I'm still very much an outsider to this group.

FTFY

Ah, finally! But why should it take so loooong? And after several posts literally spelling that out for you. Read the Welcome Message again. Take it to heart. Pretend you're at the pub with a new group of folks you don't know. You buy a few rounds, be self deprecating, take some ribbing without being defensive, every now and then flash a little bit of knowledge. but do it with humility.

Engineers go to pubs. Act like the one who knows social etiquette, not like the pesky sophomore who barges into a group of senior Tau Beta Pi's enjoying their night out, and tells them all how to conduct their business.

[K3cT]

The plot thickens.

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/amb-mini3-diy-headphone-amp.html

No idea about the performance of the Mini^3 theoretically but a casual comparison with the FiiO E5, which supposedly rivals the Mini^3 according to the reviewer, slants the favor towards the former heavily.

[limp]

The plot thickens.

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/05/amb-mini3-diy-headphone-amp.html

No idea about the performance of the Mini^3 theoretically but a casual comparison with the FiiO E5, which supposedly rivals the Mini^3 according to the reviewer, slants the favor towards the former heavily.

He sure is one for controversies, but again it is hard to argue against what the measurements read.

Edited May 16, 2011 by limp

[K3cT]

I don't know but to openly attack a proven design based on dubious claims (his Mini^3 wasn't even built properly AFAIK, it's missing a diode) and shamelessly promoting it in another forum reeks of a serious attitude problem to me. I would have contacted AMB first if I were in his shoes before publishing the result.

[limp]

He could definitely be a bit more classy about it.

If there really is something wrong with the design there is no reason for all these theatrics.

What would be interesting is to have someone else, independent, run the exact same measurements, on a confirmed proper functioning mini3. After all, repeatability is at the heart of the scientific method.

Edited May 16, 2011 by limp

[aardvark baguette]

what is this place? who are you people?