Osama Bin Laden is dead

[Voltron]

Believe it or don't, but the official word is that they planned for and attempted an "arrest." We cannot be faulted for killing him when he and his men fired on the troops who bravely went in there.

HuffPost link

Edited May 2, 2011 by Voltron

[The Monkey]

A trial would only further fuel the flames by those that hate the US that our "justice" system is a sham and a mockery. This needed to be settled in theater, not made into theater.

[swt61]

Nor do I believe that we should be faulted for seeing this as the best outcome.

[Voltron]

Nor do I believe that we should be faulted for seeing this as the best outcome.

Agreed. He chose his fate, and I don't feel one bit ashamed that one or more of our troops did him the favor of ending his miserable existence.

[The Monkey]

Yes and no, I think, Al. All involved knew that Bin Laden vowed never to be taken alive. Eric Holder said as much when discussing a possible trial iirc. So yes, we were prepared to arrest him knowing full well he was getting a tap to the head.

[morphsci]

On 9/11 I was checking traps on a field site at the SRS. I was about 1/4 mile from the truck and the radio when the alarm signals went off. It was the general alarm and not the nuclear incident monitor but I still ran as fast as my pudgy little legs would carry me back to the truck. I called the EOC on the radio and was told that all non-essential personnel should report back to their workplace and then evacuate the site. It took me about 15 minutes to get back to the lab and that was when I found out what had happened. Luckily my wife had already contacted her mother and sister who both worked in Manhattan at that time so my main feeling was a generalized numbness that eventually gave way to rage.

I am perfectly fine with how things progressed. I am also of the opinion that a trial was never legitimately on the table. I am also OK with that.

[Beefy]

Please, don't mistake my comments as strong criticism of anybody's opinions. This is a really tough issue, and I don't have a horse in the race. I can absolutely see that Osama would never be taken alive, and that the Seals were almost certainly left with no alternative.

But I had sort of expected that more people would be disappointed that due process could not be followed. The reason I appreciate my 'Western' upbringing, and loathe military dictatorships and religious extremists, is because they are so willing to cast aside these basic human rights. I always hope that we can hold those basic rights above all else and that this is what makes us 'right'.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Beefy

[Voltron]

Lots of criminals say they'll never be taken alive, but it doesn't always work out that way. Unless we're just going to let them go free, we have no choice but to go in with the idea of capture and the resolution to kill. That is, unless we can develop a means to drop a giant jar over them like bugs until we figure out what we want to do with them.

EDIT to follow up from Beefy. This was due process. Plain and simple. If criminals fight back when you try to arrest them, the cops or the military have every right to fight back. Due process does not guarantee live capture.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Voltron

[The Monkey]

I like the bug jar idea, actually.

[justin]

I was a freshman in college. still live in the same town. pretty crazy that the freshman who are here now were in a 3rd grade classroom at that time.

edit: guess this was a reply to something on page 1 or 2

Edited May 2, 2011 by justin

[909]

I just heard that bin Laden did not fire back, did not reach for a weapon -- he was unarmed.

[Beefy]

EDIT to follow up from Beefy. This was due process. Plain and simple. If criminals fight back when you try to arrest them, the cops or the military have every right to fight back. Due process does not guarantee live capture.

Fair call.

[n_maher]

On 9/11 I was in my office prepping to go to a ground breaking ceremony for a large project I was working on. I was on the phone with a client when she said, "Oh my god, a plane just flew into the world trade center." I clearly remember thinking that it had to be something like when that little plane crashed into the white house. Our office internet was horrible but I logged on and was viewing live news coverage when the second plane hit. The rest of the day is pretty blurry, it was a very quiet office, despite no one having any direct connection to people working in NY.

What I remember even more vividly is a trip that I took just a little over a month later. At the time my brother and I had a tradition started of taking a yearly motorcycle trip together to a race within a few days ride. That year we swung through NYC to visit his roommate from Cornell, Brian. We met up with Brian and it wasn't till about mid-way through dinner that he just blurted out that he worked in the WTC, in one of the smaller towers. He proceeded to relay one of the most horrific stories I've heard. More than anything I remember him talking about how he just started walking, trying to find a way home, and how it took him something like 8 or 10 hours to figure it out. I later learned that the wife of a guy that I used to ride with a lot was supposed to be in NYC that day, for the opening of a new branch of the company that she worked for. Due to reasons I can't remember anymore she hadn't made it down that day. The branch of her company was in the upper half of one of the towers. The last thing that sticks out about my 9/11 experience is that I went fishing with my boss the Saturday after the tragedy, while all air traffic was basically still grounded. The sky was strikingly blue, in a way I don't think I've seen since, without a wisp of a cloud or contrail to be found. We both just stared at it for a while in horrible awe.

As for Bin Laden and how this played out, I don't have much to say. I'm hopeful it'll mean less bloodshed.

[bhjazz]

I like the bug jar idea, actually.

Me, too. We could throw a twig and a leaf in there and see if they eat anything.

[swt61]

I had just moved to Texas two weeks prior, and was sleeping in when I got a call from a friend to turn on the news. What really sticks out in my memeory after the fact, is how many flags were flown. Every house in my, and most neighborhoods for that matter, bought and flew a US flag, almost immediately. I had to go to three Walmart stores before I found one.

[tyrion]

The guy got what he deserved, actually better than he deserved. It could not have ended any differently. He was dead when they decided the mission was a go, he just didn't know it yet. We can't even decide where and how to try the guys we already have. Having Bin Laden as a prisoner would have been a nightmare on so many levels it made bringing him back alive impossible.

I remember being in my office on 9/11 and hearing something on the radio about a plane hitting one of the towers. I went to the conference room where we had a television and spent a good part of the day watching the events unfold as they happened.

[grawk]

Another odd memory. A month or so after, driving south on the Jersey Turnpike when I saw my first plane land after 9/11. Freaked me out. It'd been a month since I'd seen or heard a plane, and that just bothered me.

[The Monkey]

I think I've related this before, but on 9/11, I was driving out to Hofstra Law School (I was in my second year). I commuted to Long Island from Manhattan. Listening to Howard Stern, as I always did, when I looked in the rearview mirror. I just happened to be on a rise on a section of the LIE such that I could see the Towers. One of them was smoking. Then Stern said a small plane had crashed into one of the Towers. Thinking not much of it, I continued driving, and the events continued to unfold. I watched the buildings fall in a classroom on a TV. Then because I couldn't get back to Manhattan because it was sealed off, I spent the night alone in East Hampton. I still wish I had turned around as soon as I first saw the smoke. Not that I could have helped or anything, but just to be there. To be close, and of course, to be with my family. We didn't lose any immediate family members that day, and I can't believe our good fortune.

The mood in the city for the weeks and months afterward were unlike anything I have ever seen or likely ever will see again. As bad as everything was, the city truly came together. The only thing that comes close is when there is a blizzard here. All of a sudden, the NYC edge softens and people are just kind of friends, throwing snowballs, hitting the bars. It was like that for a long time (though more in a life during wartime sort of way) and I will never forget it.

[Currawong]

I wonder how the marine who put the bullet in his head must feel. Must be the highlight of his military career.

I expect too that hiding out in Pakistan was a clever tactic, as the US would have otherwise had to get permission to conduct a raid and, in doing so, the Pakistani military would have tipped him off. It also meant that he was close by sympathizers who were probably passing on military intelligence.

[Craig Sawyers]

FWIW our SAS (the sort of equivalent of SEALS) carried out a daytime raid on the terrorist occupation of the Iranian Embassy in London in 1980. All but one of the terrorists were killed during the raid, and only one of the 19 hostages. Summary is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Embassy_Siege

FWIW part two, my cousin Douglas (now 60-odd and retired) was either a member of the SBS (Special Boat Service) or the Royal Marine Commandos. He has some hairy stories to tell about active service, and last saw action in the Falklands. Now wears two support shoes because his ankles are knackered (through running everywhere with a full pack) and two hearing aides (from spending too long "next to things that go bang"). The nastiest episode was training in resisting interrogation that he volunteered for at the SAS training camp in Hereford. Two weeks of everything they could throw at him, starting with being released onto Dartmoor in October wearing only prisoner orange, and to evade capture. After five days on the run, cold and hungry, when he was captured hiding in a pigsty he thought "Relief - a feeling that lasted for about ten seconds" and "The only thing was that they did not hit you as hard as a real interrogator". After the training, everyone got four weeks off to recover, both physically and mentally.

[blessingx]

Edited May 3, 2011 by blessingx

[NightWoundsTime]

That's quite an image.

Funny "prime time" scheduling, interrupting the gripping finale of Celebrity Apprentice and all. I wonder if that's what Rush is hyping today. I'm represented in the Onion News Network's fictional poll majority that would reply, "I'm so sorry but yes, I want to see this", when asked to support a Trump/Palin ticket.

[revolink24]

Very cool picture. I can imagine that room had a bit of a.... tense atmosphere.

[n3rdling]

That pic was on the front page of the LA Times the other day. Interesting article too.

[Dusty Chalk]

I want to see the same scene a couple seconds later when everyone's high-fiving each other, and doing the potato and whatnot.