Harbeth and Kef listening impressions and my hunt for speakers

[Currawong]

I went to my regular hi-fi store, MacBook Pro in hand, for some speaker evaluation today. The plan was to try the Harbeth 7ES-3s originally, but things were considerably altered by my running into the fluent-English-speaking KEF dealer the last time I went there who pointed out a new pair of Q900s in the store. I'd neither experienced Harbeths nor KEFs, so was somewhat intrigued. The KEFs are cheaper, but have a funky combined tweeter and mid designed to improve the soundstage and image even when listening off-center, along with a passive cone instead of a port, the whole aim being making them very room-friendly.

So the idea was to plug my MBP into the Esoteric K-01 they have on display and use whatever amps they have there. However, I spotted they had a Luxman L-550A there going for around $1700, so I thought this might be a chance to do things properly with an amp. However, Mac OS X decided it didn't like the Esoteric at all and had a kernel panic, twice, after barfing up the music after a few seconds of playing. I luckily had a CD I'd burned of a recent playlist and the store had quite a stock of music, though not a lot I was familiar with.

Suffice to say, the overall picture with the Harbeths is that they are quite in-you-face and brutally honest, the Esoteric + Luxman coming across as a bit clinical. I suspect a Leben might be the go here. Problematically was that the tweeters were a bit low, the 7's sitting on the Harbeth stands which aren't a lot bigger than a footstool. Rock definitely was the go with these in a big way, getting my feet tapping. Other music feeling to me like the speakers should be further apart for preference. In contrast, the KEFs were distinctly odd and, not surprisingly, much what I had expected -- not as detailed as the Harbeths, with slightly wooly bass, but the imaging, even when off-center being good, but, possibly fixable by tweaking the position, a little off sometimes, but pleasant and more forgiving with the more "just the facts maam" components. If I were buying speakers for a family room for casual listening, the KEFs would be up on my list.

I'm thinking of going back on Friday, since it's a public holiday here, along with a bunch of digital gear, maybe including the Parasound, and having another round with more music.

Does anyone have any thoughts on setting up the Harbeths (calling Tom Hankins!) and what amps I might look out for to use with them? There's a Luxman SQ-38u in the shop as well I could use as a tube demo (I imagine it would give me an idea if I'm really a tube person for speakers or not). I don't really need a heap of inputs, though balanced input would be nice -- something the Luxman integrateds have.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Currawong

[luvdunhill]

what speaker rigs have you owned in the past, and how long did you spend with each setup that you owned? Also, what's the room like that the speakers will be going in? Will the room be setup around the speakers, or are the speakers more an afterthought.

Edited April 27, 2011 by luvdunhill

[ktm]

I went to my regular hi-fi store, MacBook Pro in hand, for some speaker evaluation today. The plan was to try the Harbeth 7ES-3s originally, but things were considerably altered by my running into the fluent-English-speaking KEF dealer the last time I went there who pointed out a new pair of Q900s in the store. I'd neither experienced Harbeths nor KEFs, so was somewhat intrigued. The KEFs are cheaper, but have a funky combined tweeter and mid designed to improve the soundstage and image even when listening off-center, along with a passive cone instead of a port, the whole aim being making them very room-friendly.

Modern Kef's don't do much for me. Somewhere along the line they started tweaking for HT, and like a lot of other speakers companies, they lost that

2 channel music magic. The only Harbeth dealer close by is 240 miles away. I am a big fan of the British sound. I currently have Proac and Rega.

Proac and ARC tube gear have a great sound, somewhat on the warm side with a good soundstage.

[aardvark baguette]

'in your face' as in bright? Tipped up treble? Or something else?

Not challenging you; I've never heard them and am curious.

[faust3d]

'in your face' as in bright? Tipped up treble? Or something else?

Not challenging you; I've never heard them and am curious.

I think he is taking about forward sounding, as in mids overall and vocals, image pushed upfront. I heard Harbeth do this in some systems. I never heard them to be bright, they are dark sounding if anything.

Edited April 27, 2011 by faust3d

[Currawong]

what speaker rigs have you owned in the past, and how long did you spend with each setup that you owned? Also, what's the room like that the speakers will be going in? Will the room be setup around the speakers, or are the speakers more an afterthought.

The speakers I've lived with in the past were my father's. They were, respectively, Magnats (model number forgotten) and Paradigm 9SEs. They were both from 20 or more years ago. Amps were Luxman as far back as I can remember. The (Alpine era, regrettably) Luxman + 9SEs were not set up in any special way, but were in the living room which had curtains on one side and a wall of books on the other, but overall did a good job of disappearing, the overall result being fairly polite. I liked my Paradigm Atoms sitting on top of the Magnats more than the Magnats themselves, so I'll leave it at that for those. The Luxman I tried in the shop reminded me of the old amp I had in its presentation. I have the inkling feeling I should ponder an ever-so-slightly "musical" tube amp here instead, which would give me some flexibility in tuning the system slightly via the tubes used. This would possibly nicely contrast my headphone rig, which is very monitor-like in its presentation.

I can't say my bias is towards Paradigm now, as I haven't tried enough speakers to form an opinion. Some speakers that did impress me in shop demos (all some years ago) were: B&W 805s, unknown Monitor Audios and especially Piegas (now THERE is an idea!).

The room size, which I've finally measured, is 262x310cm (8x6' x 10.2'). The speakers will be on the shorter wall with windows on one side, using translucent curtains and regular curtains for day and night respectively. Floors are wall-papered and the floor is faux wood. I don't see myself shelling out for "audiophile" treatment, unless I can pick a couple of very good value treatments for specific locations) so the strategic placement of carpets, bookshelves and the like will be most or all of what I do. Most of my listening will be at fairly low levels, which will influence this a lot.

I may, however, put the speakers in the main room if they don't get enough use in mine, but I have the Paradigm Titans for there at present.

I think he is taking about forward sounding, as in mids overall and vocals, image pushed upfront. I heard Harbeth do this in some systems. I never heard them to be bright, they are dark sounding if anything.

Yes, sorry, I should have been more specific. This is a good description. I wouldn't say they are dark, probably because I've been listening with the LCD-2s lately which make everything, even O2s, seem bright.

Thanks in advance guys for any thoughts you may have.

[ktm]

I've had old school Paradigm and newer studio 6o v2. The older ones tended to sound bloated in the low end. Even the newer

ones had a mid bass hump. But the studio 60's are a pretty good overall speaker. The later versions improved the sound.

My biggest surprise as late is the soon to be released Polk flagships. They had them at the Lone Star Audio Fest.

It's been decades since Polk had a really high end speaker, and they looked and sounded great.

Here in the States, there are so many great speakers to choose from. Used, there's a great set of speakers

up on Dallas craigslist, or an audiogon listing within driving distance all the time.

Don't get too hung up on tubes. There's a lot of great SS choices out there. I only went tube because I stumbled into

a great deal.

[Currawong]

I think I might get a pair of Airmotiva 4s for my desk. Stories of ungodly good treble are tempting me, and they are small and the response is close enough to flat. Then I wont have to care about a speaker amp for my room and only get or make a long pair of XLR cables.

I see many good comments about the PSB Imagine Minis from RMAF too, so I reckon I could get those for the family system and be done with with it for far less than the Harbeths cost.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Currawong

[grawk]

I've been using the airmotiv4s for about a week now, and I have to say, I'm REALLY impressed. Great imaging, and very realistic textured sound.

[swt61]

Dan, IMO something magical happens when a company tailors an amp to specific drivers, and does it right. I've been a fan of active speakers for some time. My old Paradigm Reference Active 20s performed at a much higher level than the passive Studio 20 IMO, and that's with respectable amplification (McIntosh I believe).

Al's ACT actives are some of the best speakers I've yet heard.

The Airmotiv6 is on my short list.

[robm321]

Dan, IMO something magical happens when a company tailors an amp to specific drivers, and does it right

This.

[luvdunhill]

ATCs are just hot speakers period.

I don't really like actives for a few reasons, but I do have to agree in principle.

[Currawong]

I went into another high-end hi-fi store the other day and demoed a bunch of speakers. I was curious about the lower-end Piega line as I know what their high-end line can do. Good imaging, but not as glorious sounding as their better models, nor the Dalis they had there.

After I got back I took the Airmotiv 4s into my livingroom and they sounded great there. I didn't feel that I was losing a lot compared to what was in the showroom, so I will probably just get a pair of 6s and be done with it. If I ever buy a house again then I might consider a proper system.

[swt61]

To me the ear is the final word, and almost every good active I've heard has impressed me in some way. The Genelec 8040APM has been a favorite two way for some time. If the Airmotiv6 can come close at about half the cost, then I'd be sold.

Al's ATC monsters took the concept beyond my imagination, as I've mostly heard two way 6 1/2" active monitors.

I also love that you eliminate the speaker cables with active speakers, as I think running longer interconnects vs. longer speaker cables is more favorable. That may just be in my head, but it sure costs less in general.

[Currawong]

I also love that you eliminate the speaker cables with active speakers, as I think running longer interconnects vs. longer speaker cables is more favorable. That may just be in my head, but it sure costs less in general.

That's my understanding as well. It especially can't hurt running long balanced interconnects either as a preference.

I think one of the pro music gear shops here has Genelecs on display, though I don't remember which model, so I might have to see if I can't audition them. I noticed Amazon is suggesting an Adam A7X + Apogee Duet 2 bundle as well. I might have to consider getting a Duet 2 as well and selling off the ULN-2 to save space.

[dBel84]

I auditioned the ADAM A7X before getting Todd's Selah monitors. I found them a little hot for my liking but they were very impressive. Soundstage was probably one of the most realistic I have heard and very articulate bass. I would like to hear the airmotivas but no one keeps them locally. I suspect too that you would be fine without a current buffer for the cable runs as they would be short enough not to warrant it.

..dB

[Currawong]

I've been scratching my head lately about getting the new Adam Artist series, but thought I'd drop into Hifido and try out those old Luxman/Luxkit tube amps, since they rebuild them properly and I wanted to know if they were any good. They also happened to have a pair of HL5s in, which I thought might make a good combo. They were certainly quite mellow and tube-sounding, which was ok, but didn't encourage me. However, I made the mistake of allowing the salesman to switch in a Linn Klimax Twin power amp instead and now I want the damn thing. They will sell it to me for $3k flat. If I bought it I'd definitely have to get at least a pair of 3-ESRs. Anyone have any thoughts about buying Linn power amps?

[tin ear]

didn't want to start a new thread just to wish you curmudgeons a merry christmas. plus there's a tenuous link in that i got me an early present about a month ago - a pair of harbeth m30.1s (don't think you can buy them separately) and like them muchly. have a happy new year while you're at it.