The Great Dac search

[deepak]

I'm still waiting for someone reputable to get the partsconnexion modded DAC1

627's in the DAC1, might actually bring out the sound a bit more

[granodemostasa]

You don't have to mock headfi with every post...or at least include smileys for the slow children in the audience

shut up... i got it the first time... but he's acting like an anti-head fi troll now, soon he's gonna be talking about a jude conspiracy and blaming RSA for the war.

[postjack]

shut up... i got it the first time... but he's acting like an anti-head fi troll now, soon he's gonna be talking about a jude conspiracy and blaming RSA for the war.

This isn't conspiracy theory, its fact. Bush, Cheney, & Co. only started the war because of the slump in the headphone audio industrial complex. In the past few years happy go lucky music like Spears, Nsync, etc has made the demand for high end audio equipment plummet. War makes society react, and the artistic portion of society reacts with more meaningful and serious music, which demands critical listening and thus expensive audio equipment for those who become passionate about it. This whole "blood for oil" thing is just a smokescreen perpetuated by the communist secular progressive left, who are in cahoots with the fascist right to re-revive the Garcia and Elvis robots to pacify the masses and encourage massive "travellin' hippie" spending to stimulate various geographical areas of the economy.

And all those brain dead, doped up upper middle class college freshman hippies with daddy's credit card will have their Tomahawks strapped to their iPods.

You don't have to thank me for setting you free. All praise is due to the one true forum, Head Case.

[hungrych]

YOU KNOW TOO MUCH!

[Dusty Chalk]

This isn't conspiracy theory, its fact. Bush, Cheney, & Co. only started the war because of the slump in the headphone audio industrial complex. In the past few years happy go lucky music like Spears, Nsync, etc has made the demand for high end audio equipment plummet. War makes society react, and the artistic portion of society reacts with more meaningful and serious music, which demands critical listening and thus expensive audio equipment for those who become passionate about it. This whole "blood for oil" thing is just a smokescreen perpetuated by the communist secular progressive left, who are in cahoots with the fascist right to re-revive the Garcia and Elvis robots to pacify the masses and encourage massive "travellin' hippie" spending to stimulate various geographical areas of the economy.

And all those brain dead, doped up upper middle class college freshman hippies with daddy's credit card will have their Tomahawks strapped to their iPods.

You don't have to thank me for setting you free. All praise is due to the one true forum, Head Case.

(sniff) That was beautiful, man. Pure poetry.

[alfie]

This isn't conspiracy theory, its fact.

...

That's why I like to visit Head-Case on a daily basis

[aerius]

This isn't conspiracy theory, its fact...<snip>

You do realize you've just earned yourself a one-way trip to the Gitmo resort facility...

[granodemostasa]

You do realize you've just earned yourself a one-way trip to the Gitmo resort facility...

yey!!!

Hey, i don't know who first came up with the idea.. but the balenced lavry DA-10/ HD650 combinaiton is magical! so far it's proving very good... can't wait to compare it to the mighty ZD. i'll go post my impressions later on head-fi...

because i always like to complain...

1. good midrange and bottom... i'd like more of the top though.

2. the sonicraft modded 60's soundstage was bigger.

[deepak]

yey!!!

Hey, i don't know who first came up with the idea.. but the balenced lavry DA-10/ HD650 combinaiton is magical! so far it's proving very good... can't wait to compare it to the mighty ZD. i'll go post my impressions later on head-fi...

because i always like to complain...

1. good midrange and bottom... i'd like more of the top though.

2. the sonicraft modded 60's soundstage was bigger.

I hate you...

I was getting ready to sell the HD650

[humanflyz]

David, let's get together and compare my HD650s single-ended out of the Dynahi with the balanced out of Lavry. Please come to my place, because there's no way I'm going to drag the Dynahi around for five blocks lol

And stop complaining about sources, just leave well enough alone lol.

[granodemostasa]

I hate you...

I was getting ready to sell the HD650

if all it's gonna cost you is the cost of balenced connectors to mod your cord, go for it, probably the best improvement imaginable is going from the headamp out to the balenced out of the lavry.

[deepak]

if all it's gonna cost you is the cost of balenced connectors to mod your cord, go for it, probably the best improvement imaginable is going from the headamp out to the balenced out of the lavry.

Yeah I know. I've been lazy, I have the spare cable here and everything. It's getting done soon.

[humanflyz]

This should really be its own thread, but its inspiration came from this thread right here:

So granodemostasa and I decided to get together this Saturday afternoon while Berkeley classes are still not in full swing yet to compare how the HD650s sound.

Our setups are as follows:

Setup One:

HD650s running balanced from the balanced outputs of the Lavry DA10, using a stock cable re-terminated in XLR.

Setup Two:

HD650s (with stock cable) running single ended from a Dynahi, sourced by a Lavry DA10 using XLR-to-RCA adapters and cables.

Me and Grano (David from now on) both have Lavry DA10s, so we basically went back and forth. Here are the songs that we listened to:

1) La valse d'Amelie (piano) - this is from the Amelie soundtrack

2) Night Fight - this is from the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon soundtrack

3) Foreign Bodies - Part I: Body Language - this is from "Wing on Wing" by the Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra

4) Hallelujah - Jeff Buckley - from the Grace album

5) Straight Life by Art Pepper - from Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section

My overall impression is that the Dynahi has much more power and force than the Lavry's balanced output. Drums hit much harder and with much more impact on the Dynahi. This was made apparent to me when I listened to the Art Pepper track, as it contains a great drum solo by Philly Joe Jones. On the Lavry, the drum hits sound softer, more blurred, whereas on the Dynahi, the drum hits really make you feel the impact. So to my ears, the Dynahi produced bass that is tighter and more forceful than the Lavry. This isn't to say that the Lavry's bass is muddy or boomy, but it is not as precise and well-defined as the Dynahi's bass.

The midrange sounded pretty much the same to my ears on the Lavry and the Dynahi depending on the song playing. But again, the Dynahi simply had more power reserve, so everything sounded a little bit fuller, although the differences are somewhat negated when I cranked the Lavry, but this results in a listening level that is a little bit too loud for my usual tastes. For example, on Jeff Buckley's "Hallelujah", the Dynahi made his voice sound richer and weightier, resulting in a more seductive midrange. The Lavry, on the other hand, seemed to lack just a tiny bit of body in contrast.

Highs is where I felt the Dynahi had a clear advantage than the Lavry. Art Pepper's sax sounded smooth and extended, but yet also full of dynamics on the Dynahi. But on the Lavry, I had to crank it up pass my listening level to get the same level of dynamics; but with this increase in dynamics comes an increase in sibilance. The sax, in this mode, sounded too sharp to my ears. Similarly, in "Hallelujah", I had to turn up the volume on the Lavry, but this came at the cost of greater sibilance. There is this part in "Hallelujah" where Jeff Buckley sings:

"And she tied you to her kitchen chair

And She broke your throne and she cut your hair

And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah "

The "ch" and "sh" sounds from words like "kitchen", "throne", and "lips" sounded too sibilant out of the Lavry. But on the Dynahi, I could get the listening level that I wanted, but without any of the sibilance.

Soundstage wise, I thought the Lavry's balanced outputs had a slight advantage in terms of height. The Lavry can give you a better perception of height in the soundstage, whereas the Dynahi's soundstage, while big, doesn't give you the same perception of height. But lateral soundstage sounds identical to me on the Lavry and the Dynahi.

David thought that the Lavry's balanced had a hair more detail, but my personal impression was that the detail level is about the same on both setups.

So my overall preference is the Dynahi. Why? Because I am a power nut and think that you can never have too much power The Dynahi has some big brass balls that can really control the HD650s. And everything sounded a touch sweeter and warmer on the Dynahi, which is surprising, since the Dynahi doesn't sound like your typical SS stuff. I didn't find it harsh or grating; sure, it's not "tube-like" in its portrayal of the midrange, but it doesn't sound like it has digititis either. It's much smoother than the lower-end Gilmore designs that I've heard.

But for those who have the Lavry DA10, I highly, highly recommend going balanced with them if you have the HD650s. For the price of the Lavry, you get a pretty good DAC and a pretty good amp. The balanced outputs on the Lavry is a level better than it's headphone jack. Such a setup yielded a lot of performance, so it's got a great price-to-performance ratio. Plus it has a small footprint, so it is transportable to boot.

David has the pictures, and he will upload them along with his impressions when he gets home.

[granodemostasa]

Hey

Umm? there do I start?.

Soundstage:

The Lavry's soundstage was deeper and wider by about 30 percent. The images were clearer and focusing more precise. The Dynahi's soundstage sounded upfront but more 3D in terms of individual instruments, but not in terms of listening to an orchestra.

Notes:

Overall I think the lavry sounds somewhat dead. The notes were light, un-engaging, and sanded down a bit. The Dyanhi had more force to it's presentation, more roundness, and was far warmer sounding. In a way, it may have been a bit "sweetened" compared to the lavry.

Drums

The lavry tended to be a bit cleaner, more detailed and more textured. The dynahi had power and speed in abundance. Overall the dynahi sounded like a real band was playing, as opposed to a "recording," which is what the lavry sounded like.

Decay

The lavry's decay on the high notes was slower? this let me appreciate the notes at the top a bit more. On the other side of this, the cut offs were abrupt and not as sharp sounding as the Dynahi. On the cymbol the decay of the dynahi lingered on more, giving it a more "beyerdynamic" feeling.

Conclusion

I would take the dynahi in an instance over the balenced lavry? which could be too lean sounding for my tastes. While I usually consider soundstaging and imaging to be my top priorities, I'm not willing to sacrifice this much for it.

The Lavry

Okay, I was about to trade this in for something else? seeing that neither the Dynahi nor the balance gave me the type of sound I wanted to hear out of my dac, until the K1000 came along. Now I'm determined to keep this DAC. To be fair, the Lavry isn't an ideal dac? I have yet to hear that perfect clarinet pitch I heard from the Esoteric, nor have I heard that glorious and euphonic brass I heard with the Moth U Dac, but I can't have it all.

The F1 and the K1000

There are special times in Head-fidom where a person encounters something that will change the course of their audio-journey, this was one of them. Now I'm not going to put this in line with other "great moments" along my journey, I just wouldn't know where to begin, but I can say that this changes my perception about many things. My first impressions were not fond-No bass, no warmth, a bit harsh sounding (which I attribute to the cables), and the brass sounded stale (which is an impression that would go on to hold up). Then I let it settle in as Mahler's 3rd symphony continued. I soon came to realize that I was hearing much more information than I have ever heard before; yes, the HD650 does mask a lot of detail. Secondly, it occurred to me that I was hearing no coloration, but what was coming straight out of the dac? which was amazingly clear, beautiful and natural sounding. Was it the perfect balance? Not really, there is some bass and lower midrange that was missing, but nevertheless, it sounded like the real thing. Thirdly, the soundstage was simply amazing (I probably shouldn't go on with this since everyone knows about the K1000's soundstage). Fourthly, the imaging was the best I've EVER heard. Take for example the solo violin player, or the single clarinet; at no point in my audiophile experience have I heard the performers with such vivacity and 3d perception as I heard it with the K1000. I didn't think such things were possible. This alone is what was most memorable about the K1000 experience? what to me holds the highest value among audio traits is exactly what the K1000 nails.

note: i've near heard what other people call silibance.... so i'll let Mike answer any questions on this account.

[granodemostasa]

http://www.at-tunes.co.uk/

this seem somewhta interesting. (the SB+) has anyone any experience with this or know anything about it (the price isn't even listed).

[n_maher]

Ugh, I missed what was probably a pretty good deal on a DAC yesterday. There was a Meridian 566 DAC on the 'gon that had been upgraded to the 24bit DAC (same as the 508/24) that ended up going for $600. The DAC mods alone are ~$1000, I checked with Meridian two days ago!

[granodemostasa]

Ugh, I missed what was probably a pretty good deal on a DAC yesterday. There was a Meridian 566 DAC on the 'gon that had been upgraded to the 24bit DAC (same as the 508/24) that ended up going for $600. The DAC mods alone are ~$1000, I checked with Meridian two days ago!

you guys gotta tell me about the meridians... i know nothing about them and usually assume they are old and no longer good.. that's why i pass them up.

[deepak]

Ugh, I missed what was probably a pretty good deal on a DAC yesterday. There was a Meridian 566 DAC on the 'gon that had been upgraded to the 24bit DAC (same as the 508/24) that ended up going for $600. The DAC mods alone are ~$1000, I checked with Meridian two days ago!

Good deal. I really dig the 588 CDP

you guys gotta tell me about the meridians... i know nothing about them and usually assume they are old and no longer good.. that's why i pass them up.

That would ruin....it for the rest of us

Theres not much to know

[n_maher]

you guys gotta tell me about the meridians... i know nothing about them and usually assume they are old and no longer good.. that's why i pass them up.

Well, the way I was looking at it was it's the same DAC as the 508.24 which is a pretty damn highly regarded source and what I also would have liked to play with was the balanced outputs . I was also looking at the 563 18bit DAC that's listed on the Audiogon but it's priced a bit high for a stock example. Although the few reviews I found that mentioned it absolutely loved it. For ~$300 I'd probably take a flier on and may still put in an offer if it sits for a while longer. More and more it's looking like I'll be using the SB3 as a transport almost exclusively so unless I can find a player with a digital input a stand-alone DAC really is the way to go.

[philodox]

I'm not a big fan of the meridian sound, but modded... who knows.

[tkam]

I actually prefer the sound of the older Meridians to their latest stuff.

[granodemostasa]

gah... so here i've ran into issues.

since i don't have XLR to RCA connectors, i can only listen to the lavry-ZD thing whenver mike (humanflyz) is around. i put some on order, but apparenly they are not comming for another two months.. and somehow they got sold out everywhere else as well (the neutrik version). so i went to look for some other cheap alternatives and it turns out they are all made out of nickel and not copper. since the thought of all the nickel in my signal makes me cringe, i started to look for some copper. of the copper, cardas and BAT make some very expensive ones. at this point i decided i might as well try to trade my lavry in for a stello...

[humanflyz]

gah... so here i've ran into issues.

since i don't have XLR to RCA connectors, i can only listen to the lavry-ZD thing whenver mike (humanflyz) is around. i put some on order, but apparenly they are not comming for another two months.. and somehow they got sold out everywhere else as well (the neutrik version). so i went to look for some other cheap alternatives and it turns out they are all made out of nickel and not copper. since the thought of all the nickel in my signal makes me cringe, i started to look for some copper. of the copper, cardas and BAT make some very expensive ones. at this point i decided i might as well try to trade my lavry in for a stello...

LOL, you do realize that my HOSA adapters are nickel too right?

[grawk]

I've never seen a connector that wasn't made of either nickel, silver, gold, or rhodium. I've never seen copper used in a connector. Copper tarnishes, and would make an awful connector.

[granodemostasa]

um.. i was under the impression that copper and nickle were the only metals that didn't seriously alter the signal.