The Great Dac search

[granodemostasa]

This journey has been long and painful, after many dacs, and much lost money, I have yet to find a dac that I can settle on, or at least be happy with for now, until i can afford a high end piece of gear. I thought it would be easy.... people with tin ears tell us that just about all dacs sound alike... with wide spread concensus one would think that the decisoin would be easy. well, it's not.

1. The raves about the modded zhaolus convinced me to buy one, but that's where things went wrong. it's not that the zhaolu isn't a good piece of gear, it's that the one I got is horrible. Ori did his famous mod on mine.. and it broke 3 times! wires became loose, there was all kinds of static noise, there was interference and much more. Then he decided to "upgrade" it... when i finally did get the upgraded unit no sound would come out of the left channel!

2. The wavelenght brick- what a piece of shit! not that it sounds like one, but it comes in an iron box, and has a walwort worthy of a $5 walmart lamp as it's powersupply. it has a terribly upclose soundstage, that pretty much takes away any real imaging the music could have had. Well, i got it for 1033 and sold it for 970, a 63 dollar loss.. fine, but when i can't buy groceries for the sake of this thing, those 63 dollars hurt.

others that i've tried:

3. benchmark- bright!

4. Lavry- well, i'd like some treble with that.

5. stello 220- where'd the bass go?

in any case, i'm pretty much broke until Feb.. so i guess i'll have to do with my T42>zana deux

[ojnihs]

I'd say try a DAC-AH, finally had a chance to hear one and boy was I impressed. Then again, you are using a tube amp, so I don't know how you'd feel about combining a tube amp with a DAC that makes things warm and fuzzy as well. But the bang-for-the-buck of this thing is just sick.

[granodemostasa]

warm and fuzzy is just about the last thing i need with a tube amp>HD650 combo. there are many good options, but outright loosing so much money becuse of audio gear - about 200 in total for tubes that never showed up, 40ish on shipping back and forth to Ori- makes me seriously want to leave this hobby. i need to make safe purchases and i've been taking "risks" in hope they pay off and end up just getting stung by them.... the internet is a dangerous place, and people can talk themsevles into anything.

[tiberian]

instead of changing your source, you might wanna try a different amp, or use a different cable for your sennheisers etc, to find the sound you like.

my transporter sounds better than the lavry, but it costs at least $1800 right now. you might want to get a slightly used one from audiogon for around $1500. the bel canto DAC3 is also an interesting, but its $2000+ new from TTVJ.

[humanflyz]

Tough luck dude, there are no "safe" purchases in audio unless you hear it first.

[Iron_Dreamer]

Grano, did you hear my DA220 other than when we had it hooked up to the B52? I just find that you think it has no bass very curious, since it's got the best bass response of the DAC's I've owned.

Also, if you're in a position to get really down about losing a few bucks here and there, you're definitely barking up the wrong tree. You can look at it as an investment in your amusement, if you actually enjoy comparing the various pieces of gear. I can see how it would be frustrating for someone on a budget really trying to get a specific sound, but (no offense) someone who can shell out for a Zana Duex doesn't exactly fit the mold of someone with major budgetary constraints. It sucks that you had to spend so much shipping that POS DAC to Ori, since he's a Bay Area guy.

Tough luck dude, there are no "safe" purchases in audio unless you hear it first.

Very true. Although better understanding of the underlying electronics, as well as knowledge of company/designer's previous models can help guide you at least a bit.

[granodemostasa]

yea.. the stelllo is what i'm most seriously thinking about right now. I got most of what i would consider "my" sound in place, the zana deux, the HD650, and the equionx cable all convinced me of their worthiness. but to start it off with i need a good source to complete the ideal-right now the stello seems to fit most of what i would like (and with balenced outputs it allows for expansion into a separate setup).

When i do go out and to it, the little losses dont bother me... except when i add them up and thing-Oh, i coulda gotten a new ipod or UE triple fis with all the lost money.

currently the transporter, belcanto 3, and stello are the top three on my mind...

[tiberian]

yea.. the stelllo is what i'm most seriously thinking about right now. I got most of what i would consider "my" sound in place, the zana deux, the HD650, and the equionx cable all convinced me of their worthiness. but to start it off with i need a good source to complete the ideal-right now the stello seems to fit most of what i would like (and with balenced outputs it allows for expansion into a separate setup).

When i do go out and to it, the little losses dont bother me... except when i add them up and thing-Oh, i coulda gotten a new ipod or UE triple fis with all the lost money.

currently the transporter, belcanto 3, and stello are the top three on my mind...

take a bel canto 3 for team headcase .

[humanflyz]

take a bel canto 3 for team headcase .

x2 please

Besides, if you don't like it, I can easily take it off your hands

[Iron_Dreamer]

When i do go out and to it, the little losses dont bother me... except when i add them up and thing-Oh, i coulda gotten a new ipod or UE triple fis with all the lost money.

Well adding up things like that will have a tendency to make you second-guess, or think what else you could have bought. Which is all well and good for any critically thinking individual, but if you allow it to overrun your thinking to the point where it lessens the enjoyment of what you do have, that's a real bummer. We make the decisions we make, and have to live with them. At best you can learn from those choices so as to make better ones in the future.

[granodemostasa]

x2 please

Besides, if you don't like it, I can easily take it off your hands

why don't you take one for the team for a change (btw, if you want to hear the brick either tonight or tomorrow will be your last chance).

[humanflyz]

Dude I've been taking it for the team, I have the most unconventional setup among all the Berkeley people lol

[909]

x2 please

Besides, if you don't like it, I can easily take it off your hands

But not at your cost.

Chalk up those little losses as part of the game and a learning experience. And nothing compares to hearing it in your system with your ears for as long as you wish; there?s value in that. I hate wondering how something might sound so I'd rather buy it, experience it and then decide to keep or sell it. The more stuff I hear the more I learn and losing a bit here and there is part of the process at least of me. Yet I don't think you're buying new and I assume you?re looking for decent deals. I assume you are having some fun too. And when you find that source sound that pleases you, you'll appreciate it more; and it takes some trial and error too because without sampling stuff you don?t really have anything to gauge one thing against another.

On a somewhat related note, Craig (AKA Eddie Current) just got a new proto Moth DAC. Last I heard he?s been listening to it pretty much all day. If it goes into production it might be something to consider since I assume you liked the ZD set-up at the So Cal meet. Anyway, good luck and keep your eye on the big picture enjoying the music.

[granodemostasa]

so he has been working on that dac.... wow, I should hear it... the dac he had sounded amazing with the ZD.

humanflyz- you do have an unconventional set up...still, i think you would benefit more from a dac/pre than i would from it.

[humanflyz]

I hesistate to give up the Lavry because its headphone amp feature is pretty handy for my W5000s. I'm trying to keep my system as minimalist as I can be. However, I did see a Stello DP200 on Audiogon on the other day, but when I contacted the seller, it was sold already

That unit would've satisfied all my needs: it's essentially a DA220 combined with a real pre-amp/headamp with multiple analog inputs, instead of just a source with volume control like the Lavry. If I had gotten that Stello, I would've had everything I wanted in one box: a good DAC, volume control, analog input for my radio tuner, remote control, and headamp.

[909]

so he has been working on that dac.... wow, I should hear it... the dac he had sounded amazing with the ZD.

Actually another individual designed the Moth DAC you heard at the meet. But that same designer also built this proto for Craig. So I guess the goal is to make it better than the first one. I still can?t believe that DAC was made in the late 90s or something. And I believe Craig uses it to voice his amps.

I might have missed this, but are you using a transport or hard drive? I wonder what difference, if any, does it make because I?ve felt either the one box source or transport DAC my ear favored over the hard drive DAC set-ups.

[granodemostasa]

Actually another individual designed the Moth DAC you heard at the meet. But that same designer also built this proto for Craig. So I guess the goal is to make it better than the first one. I still can?t believe that DAC was made in the late 90s or something. And I believe Craig uses it to voice his amps.

I might have missed this, but are you using a transport or hard drive? I wonder what difference, if any, does it make because I?ve felt either the one box source or transport DAC my ear favored over the hard drive DAC set-ups.

Hi, i use it off a hard drive... and i'm not going to chance my habits of organizing and music listening.

[909]

Just curious. It?s convenient to have all your tunes on a hard drive, but in general I would like to know what's considered better (if one is) minus the convenience factor. quality transport or hard drive >> to DAC

[humanflyz]

Just curious. It?s convenient to have all your tunes on a hard drive, but in general I would like to know what's considered better (if one is) minus the convenience factor. quality transport or hard drive >> to DAC

I'm curious about this myself, and I'll soon find out if there's any difference when I get a CD transport for those times when I don't feel like turning on the computer. I'll report what I hear.

[granodemostasa]

i'm curious... but it won't change what i do... and there are all kinds of computer based transport systems that cost big money are are promoted as better than conventional CD transports... red wine, empirical, slim devices, wavelength for example.

[909]

http://www.zerooneaudio.com/

I think something like this might be the future. I am sure there are very fine hard drive computer based transports, but I've not really been impressed with the ones I've heard as of yet.

[granodemostasa]

interesting... but not interested.

what i am interested in is the moth dac.... craig hinted that it would be in the 1-2K range, but also warned that he is not sure if it would ever go into production. apparently it's just for shows at this moment. back to the dac search....

anyone know anything about the sonicraft modded dac-60?

[granodemostasa]

turns out that i'm going to have a chance to shootout the modded dac 60 with the wavelength brick. btw... on review, the brick ran all over the zhaolu.

[Iron_Dreamer]

btw... on review, the brick ran all over the zhaolu.

One would hope so, otherwise "the brick" would be one heck of a bad value.

[KenW]

Just curious. It?s convenient to have all your tunes on a hard drive, but in general I would like to know what's considered better (if one is) minus the convenience factor. quality transport or hard drive >> to DAC

Based on my limited experience...the transport beats the HD.