Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80... Surprised!

[NwAvGuy]

EDIT 4/23: If you're just finding this thread, I've substantially revised my published blog review of the DT 770's after living with them a while, receiving comments from others, and comparing them to additional headphones. Many of my initial impressions still apply, but the DT 770's are less accurate than I first believed. Beyer has done a decent job of spicing up the sound to appeal to a broader range of customers while leaving much of the frequency spectrum relatively unscathed. But after living with them for a while, and comparing them to more accurate reference cans, I better understand their weaknesses. All closed cans I've experienced involve significant compromises and it comes down to what trade offs are easiest to live with. For me, the 770's comfort and forgiving midrange still make them the best closed cans I've found for some applications.

MY PREVIOUS INITIAL IMPRESSIONS:

In my some of you gave the DT880's a solid recommendation. I was passing by the local Guitar Center and decided to check out what they had. They were out of 880's but did have the DT 770 Pro 80's so I figured WTF and gave them a listen using my phone as the source. To my surprise, with the sales guy pointing out their no-hassle return policy, I ended up reaching for my wallet. They're way more comfy and lighter than my existing favorite closed cans--the heavier and more ear-flattening Denon AH-D2000's. I sometimes need to tune out the world for hours at a time so comfort's a big deal.

Based on their rep, I was expecting Sony XB/Monster levels of bass from the Pro 80's. So I was surprised they're relatively neutral above 100 hz. And even below 100 hz, where the bass is seriously bumped up, they're still relatively tight and well controlled. But it turns out that's true only with a low impedance source like the "zero ohm" Benchmark DAC1 Pre. With a higher impedance source the bass does get somewhat out of control and objectionable.

Overall they surprised me for $200 closed cans. They have a bigger more realistic sound stage, for example, than the $350 Denon's. So now they really have me wondering what the 880's sound like? I've read newer DT880's are too bright and not as nice as the older discontinued version(s).

Is there anyone here familiar with both the 770 80's and the current DT 880's to offer opinions on how they compare? The guy at Guitar Center said most of their customers prefer the 770's. He said, above $100, the DT770 Pro 80's are, by far, their most popular headphone for recording and mixing and they have trouble keeping them in stock. But he could have been just been trying to close the sale.

It's not my main area of expertise, but just for fun, I threw a review up on my blog. I compare the 770's to the Denon AH-D2000, Audio-Technica ATH-M50, venerable Sennheiser HD 280 Pro's, and HD 590 open cans (which are mostly in the same league as the HD 595 and HD 600). It includes impedance measurements and some more detailed comments about the bass performance with different sources. I only had the M50's for a short time but I own all the others.

The short version is the Denon's and HD590 do some things slightly better. But, overall, the DT770's hold their own and are rather addictive in their own way. The M50's were not all that comfortable for my ears and head but I was fairly impressed with their sound while I had them. And all four blow away the sorry HD280's.

Beyer DT 770 Pro 80 Review

Edited April 23, 2011 by NwAvGuy

[nikongod]

The 770's are no where near as bad as many people say.

OTOH, they are no where near as good as a few people say.

I'd agree, they are fairly nice headphones. Many open headphones do better in many ways, but the 770 certainly have their niche.

[swt61]

As long as their niche is at your house Ari, I'm OK with them. I really don't like anything about them.

[NwAvGuy]

As long as their niche is at your house Ari, I'm OK with them. I really don't like anything about them.

Not even comfort? You list the AKG K1000's in your profile which are certainly different beasts entirely (and really rare I think?). I'd love to hear a pair sometime. I don't think I've ever heard any of the "orthos" and only a couple quick listens for electrostatics.

[Dusty Chalk]

The thing that's great about the DT770's for recording is the isolation -- there are few headphones that isolate better. You can be right in front of the microphone, with the compressor set so high that you can hear eyelids blink*, and monitor fairly loudly without feedback.

And yes, very comfortable.

The DT880's are like the DT770's without the ...erm... hyped bass signature. I suspect rockers at Guitar Center like the DT770's because of that bass hump.

EDIT: This last is from memory, and I don't know which version of both I heard. I own the 250 and 600 pre-pro/home split (which effectively makes them pro, I think) of the DT770's, but have only heard the DT880's in meet environments, but I don't remember which DT770's were at the meet.

*Yes, I've done this, really -- it's a surprisingly wet and intimate sound. And a little bit TMI.

[nikongod]

*Yes, I've done this, really -- it's a surprisingly wet and intimate sound. And a little bit TMI.

soundclips or it never happened.

[Dusty Chalk]

I'll see what I can do, but my studio is not set up right now, so don't hold your breath, neither literally nor figuratively, and I have no idea where the tapes for the Ever Darkward sessions are, or if I even have a copy, and whether or not said TMI is on those tapes, so I'd be better off trying to recreate.

Compression is weird -- the human body makes a lot of very wet noises, when you listen closely enough.

[revolink24]

I kind of don't want to hear this. But at the same time, I know I won't be able to not listen if a recording is procured.

Edited April 8, 2011 by revolink24

[NwAvGuy]

I kind of don't want to hear this. But at the same time, I know I won't be able to not listen if a recording is procured.

It can't be as bad as being unable to stop watching Untraceable ...

[catscratch]

The 770's are no where near as bad as many people say.

OTOH, they are no where near as good as a few people say.

I'd agree, they are fairly nice headphones. Many open headphones do better in many ways, but the 770 certainly have their niche.

Pretty much this. DT770s are certainly far from terrible but also far from great. I use mine mostly for gaming. They're amazingly comfortable and the isolation is good. Build quality is fairly tanklike but mine did develop a rattle in the left driver over time, and this is not an isolated incident. The bass is overblown but fairly well controlled. The mids actually have nice tone but are recessed overall. Highs are bit harsh and overemphasized but not as badly as some. Resolution isn't bad for a dynamic I guess, and they do sound spacious for closed headphones. Aside from not being very linear and a little harsh up top they don't sound that bad to me, at least as far as closed dynamics go. Certainly better than Ultrasones but that isn't very hard.

[NwAvGuy]

Pretty much this. DT770s are certainly far from terrible but also far from great. I use mine mostly for gaming. They're amazingly comfortable and the isolation is good. Build quality is fairly tanklike but mine did develop a rattle in the left driver over time, and this is not an isolated incident.

I'm curious how much closer the 880's are to "great"?

I've heard about the rattle problem with the 770's. I threw away a pair of Grados for that reason. Some say it's crap in the voice coil/magnet rubbing. But there are also guys who claim to break just about any headphone in a year yet have 5 year old 770's still going strong. Supposedly the drivers are replaceable but I have no idea if that's cost effective.

Most of my full size can listening the last several years has been with the Denon 2000's and Sennheiser HD 590's. The really high end stuff I've only heard at shows, dealers, friend's places, etc. I mentioned in the "revealing" thread I'd like to live with some Stax for a while. But that's a lot of coin as I'd need an amp too. I'm also curious about orthos but their time seems to have passed. The new flagships are most conventional dynamics like the HD800's, etc.

[mypasswordis]

Meh I think they (edit: DT770 80ohm) are as bad as many people say, if not worse. Literally unlistenable, I would not choose it over stock iBuds.

Edited April 9, 2011 by mypasswordis

[deepak]

In my some of you gave the DT880's a solid recommendation. I was passing by the local Guitar Center and decided to check out what they had. They were out of 880's but did have the DT 770 Pro 80's so I figured WTF and gave them a listen using my phone as the source. To my surprise, with the sales guy pointing out their no-hassle return policy, I ended up reaching for my wallet. They're way more comfy and lighter than my existing favorite closed cans--the heavier and more ear-flattening Denon AH-D2000's. I sometimes need to tune out the world for hours at a time so comfort's a big deal.

Based on their rep, I was expecting Sony XB/Monster levels of bass from the Pro 80's. So I was surprised they're relatively neutral above 100 hz. And even below 100 hz, where the bass is seriously bumped up, they're still relatively tight and well controlled. But it turns out that's true only with a low impedance source like the "zero ohm" Benchmark DAC1 Pre. With a higher impedance source the bass does get somewhat out of control and objectionable.

Overall they surprised me for $200 closed cans. They have a bigger more realistic sound stage, for example, than the $350 Denon's. So now they really have me wondering what the 880's sound like? I've read newer DT880's are too bright and not as nice as the older discontinued version(s).

Is there anyone here familiar with both the 770 80's and the current DT 880's to offer opinions on how they compare? The guy at Guitar Center said most of their customers prefer the 770's. He said, above $100, the DT770 Pro 80's are, by far, their most popular headphone for recording and mixing and they have trouble keeping them in stock. But he could have been just been trying to close the sale.

It's not my main area of expertise, but just for fun, I threw a review up on my blog. I compare the 770's to the Denon AH-D2000, Audio-Technica ATH-M50, venerable Sennheiser HD 280 Pro's, and HD 590 open cans (which are mostly in the same league as the HD 595 and HD 600). It includes impedance measurements and some more detailed comments about the bass performance with different sources. I only had the M50's for a short time but I own all the others.

The short version is the Denon's and HD590 do some things slightly better. But, overall, the DT770's hold their own and are rather addictive in their own way. The M50's were not all that comfortable for my ears and head but I was fairly impressed with their sound while I had them. And all four blow away the sorry HD280's.

Beyer DT 770 Pro 80 Review

I would never say the HD590 are in the same league as the HD600. The HD590 was one of the worst headphones I owned. I give them an A+ for comfort, but they were muddy with poor mids.

[Tyll Hertsens]

I give them an A+ for comfort

Bionetic, baby.

That whole line was terrible sounding. Except for the relly cheap ones of the same era. Can't remember the models.

[HeadphoneAddict]

I had a bad experience with the DT770 in the modded Darth Beyer version, twice. Both times the bass was boomy and the mids were recessed, and it put me off on the idea of owning another DT770. I by far preferred the AH-D2000 and later my modded ATH-A900. I read your review and it left me wondering are the stock DT770 really that much better than the Darth Beyer? Why would anyone take a decent sounding headphone and dress it up to sound worse? I just assumed the stock DT770 were even worse than what I heard in the woodied re-cabled version.

[cetoole]

The only thing redeeming about the dt770 to me is the headband and pads, might make a decent fosterphone. Hated the sound though. Larry, I have never heard the darth beyers, but I had Larry's woodied hd650 for a while and they absolutely sucked! I definitely could believe the modded dt770 are worse than the original. As to why, because they look pretty/make money?

[NwAvGuy]

I would never say the HD590 are in the same league as the HD600. The HD590 was one of the worst headphones I owned. I give them an A+ for comfort, but they were muddy with poor mids.

The 590's midrange is a bit dark--especially compared to the Denon's or my Ety ER4's. I could be wrong, but didn't the 595's directly replace the 590's? They're very different physically but it's my understanding they're supposed to have the same sonic signature. Perhaps not? And I've only heard the 600's once, but again, it's my understanding they're just a slightly more refined version of the 595. Not true?

Is a huge player like Sennheiser really that random with their R&D and product management to have the 595 be radically different from the previous generation 590? Judging from what I've read it would seem Beyer isn't a model of consistency either. What's up with all that? Do these companies just design random crap and hope people keep trying enough different models, through enough different years and generations, until they finally find one they like?

You can go find a 20 year old pair of B&W, or Theil, or lots of other brands of speakers, and compare them to anything similar they've made since, and they'll sound way more alike than different. For that matter the $400 pair will sound amazingly like the $4000 pair in a given line--they just won't play as loud, go as low, etc. Each new generation is about subtle refinements or tweaks rather than an entirely different sound. And there's usually a common "voice" or sonic signature within a product line from top to bottom. Why aren't more headphone companies like that?

I get that some want a studio line, an audiophile line, a Dr Dre boom and sizzle line, portable line, etc.. But aren't the 590's, 595's, 600's, etc. supposed to appeal to the same audience? Or for that matter the Beyer 770, 880, 990 and T1?

Just like the DT 770's, what sold me on the 590's is the comfort and I was sad to see Sennheiser mess that up on the newer versions. I want headphones I can wear for hours on end and forget they're even on my head. And I can do that with the DT 770's and HD 590's. Many, like my Sony V6's, just end up collecting dust.

This stuff is obviously really subjective and one man's pleasure is another's poison. But I'm more curious than ever to hear more of these cans some of you consider way better than the D2000's, DT770's, HD590's, etc? I'm either missing out or just like different things.

[NwAvGuy]

Both times the bass was boomy and the mids were recessed, and it put me off on the idea of owning another DT770. I by far preferred the AH-D2000 and later my modded ATH-A900. I read your review and it left me wondering are the stock DT770 really that much better than the Darth Beyer? Why would anyone take a decent sounding headphone and dress it up to sound worse? I just assumed the stock DT770 were even worse than what I heard in the woodied re-cabled version.

On the right source material I prefer the D2000's also. And there are so many freakin' versions of the DT770's I think that could easily explain some of the differences in what others have heard. There's also the source issue. My DT770's sound muddy and boomy with a high impedance source. If that was my sole experience with them, I wouldn't like them either.

The midrange I have to agree is a bit recessed--same with my HD590's. On some music, to my ears, that can be a good thing. And my experience with a lot of mods is they're all about making things sound different which isn't always better to other's ears.

And I keep reading things like "yeah the pre-2007 DT880's were great but the current ones really suck", etc. So apparently Beyer makes changes along the way that some like and some don't. So perhaps the ones I have are different than those some here have experienced?

To my ears, the DT770's, ATH-M50's and Denon D2000's at least deserve to hang out at the same party even if they wear different clothes. All 3 roughly sound more like each other than like the HD280's for example. I haven't tried going back and forth with my Ety ER-4's but that might give a better clue about absolute accuracy.

But the fact is, a lot of you guys have waaaay deeper and broader experience with headphones than I do. I only know about the relatively limited selection of cans I've spent some time with. So my point of reference might be really different from some of the others here.

[Voltron]

I'm sorry to inform you, but you have exceeded your word quotient for all of April. Smileys and cute kitten pics are all you can post until May. Thank you for your cooperation.

[deepak]

I agree what you're saying about speakers. Sennheiser makes great headphones all around, the HD570 and HD590 are just the anomalies. But their sound signatures can be all over the place, the HD650 and HD800 which were or are both flagships sound nothing alike.

The HD580/HD600HD/650 are good headphones and not like the Dr Dre headphones.

It has been a while since I heard the HD595 and I sold them pretty quickly, but I don't think they were that bad either.

[NwAvGuy]

the HD650 and HD800 which were or are both flagships sound nothing alike.

The HD580/HD600HD/650 are good headphones

I guess there's at least some consistency. The new HD598 from I've read, is nearly identical, save for the pimped out color treatment, to the HD595.

I don't like the physical design of the 555/595. And, despite massive complaints about cracked headbands, Sennheiser apparently couldn't be bothered to fix that as the 558/598 reportedly use the same sketchy plastics and construction. But gee, they did spend money updating the 598 color scheme to match "Euro sport sedan interiors". I picked up a 595 when they came out and was so put off by Sennheiser going backward in the name of fashion I never even listened to them.

A lot of headphones in the $100 - $500 range seem to have fatal (or near fatal) flaws for me. Some are just plain uncomfortable (Grado/Alessandro/Sony/Etc). Others, like the ATH-AD700's, fall off my head. And a lot sound worse than what I already have. Comparatively, I'm willing to live with laid back midrange.

Perhaps I need to spend more time with some HD 600/650's? At least they're not so much form over function like the current 5xx series but they're still a lot heavier and clamp harder than my HD 590's.

Edited April 9, 2011 by NwAvGuy

[mypasswordis]

If you think the HD600/650 is heavy you may need to undergo rehabilitation.

Edited April 9, 2011 by mypasswordis

[NwAvGuy]

If you think the HD600/650 is heavy you may need to undergo rehabilitation.

I just checked, and at 9 ounces, I guess you're right. All that metal must have just seemed heavier than my mostly plastic 590's.

To come back to my original post in this thread, how do the DT 880's stack up? How would you guys compare them to the HD600/650?

And between the HD600 and 650 I've heard the 650s have more low frequency extension, a bigger sound stage and are a bit more laid back through the midrange and highs (i.e. more forgiving of poor source material). Is that true? Are the 650's worth $100+ more?

Edited April 9, 2011 by NwAvGuy

[mypasswordis]

I just checked, and at 9 ounces, I guess you're right. All that metal must have just seemed heavier than my mostly plastic 590's.

To come back to my original post in this thread, how do the DT 880's stack up? How would you guys compare them to the HD600/650?

And between the HD600 and 650 I've heard the 650s have more low frequency extension, a bigger sound stage and are a bit more laid back through the midrange and highs (i.e. more forgiving of poor source material). Is that true? Are the 650's worth $100+ more?

Have you ever even seen a HD600/650? They're mostly plastic too.

HD600 > HD650 for me, all day errday

[morphsci]

HD650 > HD600 for me, all the time, every time. Don't think I paid $100 more than for an HD600.