MPX3 SLAM SE vs. Supra for Grados

[aerius]

I did read about the Grado issues, and I wasn't thinking of buying the same amp. It was more the idea of a custom amp, or fully customized amp from a place within driving distance. I'm not really sure how well philodox's experience went. Anyway, just a wild random idea.

Well, let's just say you could be waiting for quite some time. As of last week when Peter McAlister was the guest speaker at the inaugral meeting of the Toronto Audiocircle group, he was over 60 orders behind.

[PsychoZX]

I saw a quote from the meet thread on head-fi that said the circuit has little in common with the PPX3. So apparently he has changed the circuit some more. It also looks like the amp is just going to be called the "Extreme".

Yes from what I understand from Mikhail is that the circuit for the Extreme uses a small part of the ppx3 circuit board and the rest is a completely new design wired p2p.

[granodemostasa]

i still think you should seriously consider the zana deux. i used it with the GS1000 for a day or so, and it seemed as an awsome combination.

as for the treble, again, at least a dozen people have heard my amp-many for multiple days, and no one has yet commented on any problems in the treble.

and no, while some may suggest that the love affair witht the zana deux is because of it's looks, i seriously don't sit around looking at my amp, and i wouldn't feel any different about it if it looked like a headroom desktop or a GS-X.

[Yikes]

At the recent NY meet I listened to the ZD with my recabled Sony SA-5000s (70 Ohms) and to be honest it sounded sort of broken. I wasn?t taking notes or anything I just remember thinking something about the system sounded broken. I really wanted to like it, it?s a freaking beautiful amp.

[909]

How can you be so sure it was the amp and not something else in the chain? Such as the source, cables, tubes, power supply, music, cd, etc... Or even system synergy that wasn?t to your liking. There are so many factors involved and to isolate it just to the amp isn't improbable, but questionable.

[philodox]

Thanks for the impressions Jamie. I think the output caps are probably the cause of the flabby bass with your PS1's. Is your amp transformer output?

Yeah I think I'm going to send you those seperately... I don't knwo what up with drew... but I think I need to start contacting Cardas directly for my wire from now on.

That might be a good idea, but don't sweat over it... I am sure that after I talk to Peter it will be a week or two before the work is done. Not in a huge rush anyways since I am loving the amp even in its current 'half done' state.

[grawk]

I've heard this argument before used to say that hte best combination ever is the CD3000 + bada ph12 + eastsound. When you change 1 thing in a chain, and the sound gets worse, you shouldn't blame the things that don't change.

[PFKMan23]

I've heard this argument before used to say that hte best combination ever is the CD3000 + bada ph12 + eastsound. When you change 1 thing in a chain, and the sound gets worse, you shouldn't blame the things that don't change.

Don't you mean SA5000?

[recstar24]

I love the Zana. I have a hard time listening to the hd-25 now with the zana in tow. The hd-25 sounds harsh and edgy compared to it, especially in the treble. With the zana, its smooth as butter but incredibly detailed. Its more about the inner detail with the zana, certain timbral nuances and subtleties really come into the foreground. The bass is absolutely disgusting, so deep, tight, and impactful. The highs are perfect to me.

[granodemostasa]

I've heard this argument before used to say that hte best combination ever is the CD3000 + bada ph12 + eastsound. When you change 1 thing in a chain, and the sound gets worse, you shouldn't blame the things that don't change.

but the CD3000+bada ph12+eastsound is the best rig ever.... I dont' know what the chain was, whether he took his cans into some else's rig or brough the ZD into is own... but to describe something as "broken" makes me think something IS broken.

in any case, the SA5000... ewe...

[909]

I've heard this argument before used to say that hte best combination ever is the CD3000 + bada ph12 + eastsound. When you change 1 thing in a chain, and the sound gets worse, you shouldn't blame the things that don't change.

If someone said this set-up is the best combo ever it?s a particular person's opinion. As is someone saying X is awesome, broken, or has treble issues or not.

Yet after listening to an unfamiliar rig and saying it must be X isn't even entertaining other possibilities. I believe this even applies to a new piece of gear that?s brought into an existing rig. And if something seems off they pass all the blame on that new gear when it as simply could be something else that they?ve not heard as clearly before.

I hooked up the Apollo, 508.24, and the Hyper Moth DAC to the ZD while listening with the HD650s, K701s, L3000s, RS-1s, and HD600s and didn?t hear anything wrong nor treble issues all done under ideal listening conditions. And I?ve got major sensitivity to treble that I experienced with the E5, UR4/5/6s, Raptor, and HD650s. And that?s one of the reasons I sold the GS-1000s because with my Apollo, Cardas Neutral and EC2A3, my ears got fatigued in less than an hour. But in another rig I didn't experience the same thing with the GS-1000s. Go figure...

[Yikes]

Source was the EMM Labs DAC and transport. Source was daisy chained through all of Toms amps (and or some of the SP amps) and none of the other amps sounded off. I wasn?t the only person that noticed the ZD sounding bad. Based upon its reputation I would assume that there must have been tube issues. The one thing that I am not saying is that the ZD is a bad design, just that on one specific day I heard a ZD that may have had issues and therefore didn?t sound right.

I was keeping quiet about it, but it has been so long since I had anything to add to a conversation here that I decided to jump in.

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Thanks for the impressions Jamie. I think the output caps are probably the cause of the flabby bass with your PS1's. Is your amp transformer output?

Yep its transformer output, driven straight off the 8ohm speaker taps with a dummy load.

Biggie.

[Bob_McBob]

Has anyone got any more solid info on the EXTREME? I e-mailed Mikhail, but since my last two e-mails sent over a week are still unanswered, I'm not expecting to hear from him any time soon...

I am curious about the option of an MPX3 kitted out for high power tubes, but I don't really even know what to ask Mikhail, or how much I would likely end up paying. Also, I've been doing a little bit of research into balanced headphone systems, and opinions seem to be either "meh, it's not that much better" or "HOLY CRAP BALANCED IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO!!!11!" Anyway, I have a feeling a balanced system of the level I'd be looking to buy would probably be upwards of $3500, and then there is the cost of buying a new source, reterminating, etc. Not something I can afford right now.

If the EXTREME is all it's cracked up to be at the price I've seen mentioned, I may just order one of those and then re-evaluate the balanced system idea in 6-12 months. That also gives me some money for K701s and a new lens for my 30D

For what it's worth, Peter McAlister did get back to me, though I don't think anything will come of it.

Due to low impedance headphones such as the Grado's a lot of manufactures build a basic push / pull or single ended power amp using output transformers as this is the most cost effective way to get the required output drive. I do not agree with this method and think a properly designed single ended , no feedback , no output transformer design using my input stage, good drive sections and large out voltage swing in the only way to go. Actually my PL-10 is quite good but to raise the bar I could double the output tubes and modify the power supplies- this would probably cost around $1400.00

As far as balanced I am not a big fan as this method requires two first gain stages per channel which can increase the noise floor. Also there are certain types of distortion that are not cancelled out in a balanced design. If you do not use balanced it is probably best to stick with a single ended unbalanced design.

[n_maher]

Has anyone got any more solid info on the EXTREME? I e-mailed Mikhail, but since my last two e-mails sent over a week are still unanswered, I'm not expecting to hear from him any time soon...

Well, he was flying back and forth to Florida so I'd give him a bit of time to respond.

If I were in your shoes I'd pre-order a PPXE. If you decide to sell it I doubt you'll have any trouble getting most, if not all, of your $$$ back since the price is going to go up after the initial run. Are there better amps out there? Sure, but at some point you just have to find something that sounds good and enjoy it.

My 2?

[deepak]

One of the inherent benefits of most balanced amps is they're almost always going to use better/bigger/more expensive parts, which in part plays into their sounding better. Not to mention the effects of an aftermarket cable.

[grawk]

I think attributing the benefit of a push pull architecture to 3 oz of wire between the earcups and the amp is a bit of a stretch.

[deepak]

Is Mikhail's MoT thread due soon?

Earl can you quickly go over all the tubes that can be used in the gain and output sections? Also will it be possible to use 5687's in the 2 outputs with adapters?

[Guest sacd lover]

Is Mikhail's MoT thread due soon?

Earl can you quickly go over all the tubes that can be used in the gain and output sections? Also will it be possible to use 5687's in the 2 outputs with adapters?

Hopefully he does the MOT thread today.

This amp is completely different. You are only going to be able to use the 6AS7/6080 series of output tubes. So consequently, that means no 5687 or 6BL7GT/6BX7GT tubes can be used in this amp. The 6AS7 series of tubes are very high power but run at a low voltage (150 volts) that is not compatible with the 5687 or 6BL7GT types. You will be able to use the .................... 6AS7G/ 2399 / 5998 /5998A /6080 /6520 and 7236. The typical 6AS7G will cost around $11-12 each. The typical 6080 will cost $8-10 each. These tubes are both easy to find and inexpensive .... and most importantly .... sound excellent.

The gain tube was originally slotted to be a 6414. But I think he changed his mind and is going to use an octal tube socket .... so I suspect a 6SN7 for gain. But you will be able to use just about any of the current gain tubes. The 6AS7 has a low gain so gain matching will not be critical.

The 6414 series requires the ECC adapter and includes the 12AV7 / 5965 / 6414 / 6414W / 6829 and the 7062. You can also use the 12AU7 and ECC99 with this same ECC adapter. The loctal tubes that are electrically identical to the 6SN7 use the 7N7 adapter and include the 7AF7 and three varities of 7N7. Next using a 6CG7 adapter you will be able to use the 6CG7 and 6GU7 .... and possibly the 6EV7. If you want to .... you can use a 5687 adapter and use the 5687/ 6900 / 7044 and 7119 for gain. He reportedly has a second ECC adapter that allows you to use the 6DJ8/6922 series of tubes. But I havent tried that one .... yet.

[Bob_McBob]

What tubes is he shipping it with?

[humanflyz]

Do the output tubes have octal sockets?

[PFKMan23]

Do the output tubes have octal sockets?

Yes they do.

[Guest sacd lover]

What tubes is he shipping it with?

I dont know yet. Probably an EH 6SN7 and some good 6080's. The EH will be passable until you can get something better. Myself, I would spend the $99 and get either the 7N7 adapter .... or the ECC adapter that uses the 6414 series of tubes.

I would keep the amp close to stock, maybe a stepped attenuator at most, and get the adapters for an option. Why? Good tubes make far more difference than the other upgrades. Hopefully I will get mine soon and then I can tell you what I think works best. I really dont doubt that either adapter would have some tubes that would meet your full approval.

[Bob_McBob]

I don't think I would bother with a stepped attenuator on the extreme. If I were going to buy a single adapter, which one would you suggest? Also, which of those are the huge bling tubes? ;)

[909]

86 that EH 6SN7 ASAP and do your ears a big favor and get a better tube. No question about it. The difference between the stock EH 6SN7 and the NOS replacements Mikhail sent were night and day. With the EH I didn't really like the MPX3, but with the NOS tubes I could have easily lived with that amp and been happy.