Sorry, need some advice on music Macs rather quick.

[Tyll Hertsens]

A new job has me searching for a Mac solution for playing around with music gear. They want to submit some budget numbers tomorrow. Argh! Not really enough time to research shit.

I'm torn between a faster Mac laptop than I have and a DIY Linux music server, and just popping for a Mac Pro desktop.

I currently have an iTouch, iPad, and entry level MacBook, and a fairly new and fast Dell Windows 7 desktop.

My needs are:

I've got to be able to play with and evaluate virtually any digital media device. I won't be looking at bad-ass listening room servers (ie Sooloos) or professional audio editing stuff, but may be playing with most anything other hardware and software that might be called "personal media."

I need to be able to create media on the road (writing, photo editing in Photoshop, and video editing, probably in Premier. So I'll be running Adobe memory hogs on the road. I think the little MacBook may struggle with that stuff.

But I also might need to evaluate cards the slip into a Mac Pro ... though I really haven't seen much of that. Maybe it's not really an issue. I have a desire for a Mac Pro, but don't really know if I have a need.

Doing media production at home will be the bulk of the work I do, though, so it may be worth living on the MacBook on the road if I get significantly better performance on a Mac Pro when I'm home ... which will be 95% of the work I do. Also, the larger display make make my work at home all the more productive.

If I go with the MacBook Pro, I'll build up a Linux server on my own for cheap. That way, I'll also have access to a machine running Linux for some evaluations.

Questions:

Has anyone successfully run a network of Macs and Windows boxes that play well together?

Will I have to have duplicate music databases so the Mac and Window world don't collide all over my music collection?

I'm thinking I want a real server so that I can host various various streaming server apps. I'm worried the Linux will shut me out of most of the consumer level media home server apps that may come along. OTOH, I can always use my W7 box as a server for Windows services; and it's likely that a future purchase of a Mac Mini as a music server would cover my Apple services testing.

Bottom line: if you got a dream job playing with all sorts of personal and computer audio gear and your boss says, "tell me what you need ... not want" what would you say?

BTW, software is also an issue, but I'm thinking I'll just go with the Adobe stuff. Most of the audio software I'll just get in as samples, so I'm more interested in software I might need for testing or work purposes, as opposed to the music playing software itself.

TIA!

[Knuckledragger]

I am by no means a network geek, and I have had no trouble getting my MacBook to talk to any Wintel that comes into the house. When my old PC died, I successfully backed up 850GB of files vial ethernet from the semi-functional WinXP box to my Mac to an external LaCie drive.

The value of a Mac Pro is not just its power, but its expandability and lifespan. It's easy to get 5+ years of service out of a Mac Pro, even if you run demanding tasks on it every day.

Obviously, a Mac Pro isn't going to be a help when you're mobile. See if you can run the apps you want on your MacBook, and replace it with an MBP when you need/can afford to.

[Voltron]

I'm not the most knowledgeable computer person around here by any stretch, but if you need to do all that shit on the road, you won't be able to do it well or at all with a Macbook, so you might have to get the Macbook Pro and build a server.

[elnero]

I don't see why a Macbook Pro wouldn't suffice, you could add on a second monitor for your desktop and have dual displays at the office, this is what I do with my 17" laptop at home. You could also do a dual boot so you could have both Windows and OSX on the same machine.

I just poked around Apple's website, I'd suggest getting the 17", bulkier to carry but if it's going to be used predominately on a desktop then the extra screen real estate will be worth it. Upgrade the hard drive to the faster 7200 RPM drive and get the anti-glare screen as well, if you can afford to max out the ram I'd say go for it.

If you were to go dual displays and could afford it, the Apple Cinema displays are really nice. I have two older 21"'s at work that I use on a PC that I absolutely love, it's a bit of a letdown coming home to my laptop screen and 21" LG monitor.

As far as networks go I haven't set one up myself recently and I don't have a whole lot of experience but at work we probably have a 50/50 split of windows and mac machines on our network without much issue.

[Dusty Chalk]

It sounds to me like you need both. If you need to evaluate cards that only go in a desktop, then you need a desktop. If you need something occasionally portable, then you need a Macbook or a Macbook Pro (or possibly even a Mini). I would suggest modest but not underpowered versions of each.

And yes, we run an interracial network here at the office, although I don't know the details as to how, but it can be done.

Also, I don't know how powerful the Air is, but it seems ideally suited to music listening applications if it's powerful enough.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Dusty Chalk

[trevorlane]

I've got a 2008 MBP and a 2009 Mac Pro. I use both on a regular basis, and my experience may not be parallel to yours Tyll, but I do use both everyday. The MBP seems durable and useful enough as I use it for notes and work everyday. I run VMWare with Vista for OneNote, other than CPU usage constantly maxed out, it's held up all these years. Mac Pro is great because of the processing power, amount of ram, and adding hard drives. Again I run OneNote for case briefing on XP, but the MP can handle it far better than the MBP with good reason. I usually stream via iTunes on my local network, but you could probably use Plex for streaming media (I just use a DVI to HDMI cable to my TV). My MBP takes a beating but with regular replacement/repair services by Apple, I'm happy with it.

[Knuckledragger]

tevorlane's post reminds me of a crucial point. Whatever machine(s) you end up buying, do not skip getting AppleCare. It just ain't a Mac if it doesn't have AppleCare. I had my early 2008 MacBook basically rebuilt from the ground up midway through last year. Woulda cost me $ARM and $LEG were it not for AC.

[trevorlane]

tevorlane's post reminds me of a crucial point. Whatever machine(s) you end up buying, do not skip getting AppleCare. It just ain't a Mac if it doesn't have AppleCare. I had my early 2008 MacBook basically rebuilt from the ground up midway through last year. Woulda cost me $ARM and $LEG were it not for AC.

Ohhhh yeah: i've had the monitor replaced, the power inverter, top case, keyboard, and fans, and i'm pretty sure labor + parts was no joke. that AC paid for itself 10x over, literally

[CarlSeibert]

Mixed networks are dead easy nowadays. Just use SMB networking and everything plays on the same page. That said, Linux and Windows machines can do the old Mac network protocol if you want. They'll all do NFS if you need. They can learn to read and writes each other's disks. That's only an issue of you need to handle individual files bigger 4 GB (which comes up in video production. We handle it by using Mac native removable disks for video and the standard FAT ones for everything else.) Personally, me being me, I make sure my network is semi-secure from the outside world and I run FTP servers on all my machines, 'cause that take me around issues like SMB's stupid file name restrictions (which may not really be stupid, but they are irritating.)

For reviewing purposes, you'll need an actual hardware PC up to a semi-reasonable spec and a Mac of good spec as well. I'd set it up so the review machines could be wiped clean without a tear being shed. (Different volumes - or better whole drives-with independent OSes for reviewing and real work, etc.) Virtual machines are a wonderful sanity saver, but for reviewing, you'll need real hardware IMHO.

I would put my music collection on a good stable multi-protocol server where it will be safe and easily accessible. I'm a Vortex Box fanboy, but you could build your own if you want. VBox does a bunch of protocols and works as a NAS, too. You don't have to be as cheap as me, but I have < $200 in mine. You could do the same thing in a Mac box if you've got one laying around, I suppose. But Linux is best for that sort of thing anyway. For server-reviewing, you'll have to use your "review boxes" for servers because that's what the customers will have. I guess that implies a subset of your collection on a portable drive. (a FAT one)

Video editing on a laptop is not fun. It won't get fun. So I would go for a good desktop and use the laptop you have, maybe with a RAM upgrade.

Personally, I like Open Source software that runs on all platforms. real word, I get very uneasy about products that lock you into one platform (in other words, avoid Final Cut Pro, even if it is a good OLE). Beware that Adobe's shrink wrap licensing allows you two machines per license but OF THE SAME PLATFORM. That made it a gigantic pain to set up Bonnie's environment, since we needed machines on both Mac and Windows. You may be able to fall through a loophole on their bulk product, though. Consult your friendly (they actually are) Adobe rep.

Jacob is right, you should have an SSD available for review talks that need it, although in a true server-client architecture I doubt they matter.

So we're up to: Kick ass desktop Mac, a good but cheap PC, a reasonable laptop of either flavor, a POS white box to build a music server in, a fistfull of portable drives, and most importantly of course an excellent back strategy!

[Tyll Hertsens]

I love you, Carl.

He's also asked me to budget for a video camera. i just need a simple and small camera, that does decently wide angle. Maybe like 20mm on a 35mm camera. I know I might be dreaming on that wide angle.

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm gonna slep on it and see if there's any comments in the morning. and then I'll go shopping at the Apple store and see what kinda bill I ring up.

And DAMN, THESE FRIGGEN IpADS SUCK TO TYPE ON!!!!!!

[Grahame]

And DAMN, THESE FRIGGEN IpADS SUCK TO TYPE ON!!!!!!

Shhhh. Thats what the bluetooth keyboard is for

[Tyll Hertsens]

Okie Dokie, I've decided to take Carles advice ... shit he does stuff very close to this for his work.

So, I'm gonna go with a Mac Pro, Linux server, and a Mac Mini.

I recon the speed improvements at home 90% of the time will outweigh the speed improvements on the road 10% of the time.

I'm gonna ask for the Mac Mini because that can be the box that gets wiped and reinstalled for software testing duties.

Still looking for a good video camer recommendation ... I'm gonna go search for one now, but if someone has a recco in the next hour, post it up.

Otherwise, thanks guys, the advice here is stellar as always, and I'm going to go back and pick my way through these posts as I plan to set up the network.

Thanks guys!

[Knuckledragger]

Still looking for a good video camer recommendation

I parsed that as "video gamer" three times before I got it. I was thinking "The Mac Pro will run almost any game you throw at it under Windows." "Just install Steam." "Does Tyll really have time for games?"

Uh. Re: video cameras. I used to work as a sound engineer for a small video production company. What I recall is this: Canon has the best glass, Sony CCD (and CMOS?) chips are excellent, JVC pro shouldercams are the best value in that price bracket. What I suggest is a smaller Canon that has an analogue audio input (at least 1/8" mic), FireWire I/O and a flip-out LCD screen so you can see what is going on. If you're not going to be doing long recordings, as solid sate based model might work well for you. Otherwise look at a tape format (MiniDV). Avoid HDD-based models as they invariably fail at the worst possible time.

[CarlSeibert]

I think Wayne has an EX-1 and likes it. The thing that sucks here is that you will likely have to work in hotel ballrooms and the like. That's the worst possible environment for inexpensive cameras. The DSLRs that work as video cameras can be pretty good in low light for a semi-reasonable price. (granted with all that claptrap attached to them they resemble production cameras more than news gathering ones, or alternatively are a little, ahem, minimal ergonomically)

Think Canon 7-D or the unbelievable-in-low-light Nikon D3S. A D3S makes working in one of those rooms bearable in stills or video. Peter's D-700 is more or less a lower priced D3, which is still pretty damn good. But I don't think it does video, or at least not HD.

One of my night shift guys has experience with the EX-1, the EX-3 and a couple of less expensive cameras in crappy light. He's off today, but I'll chat him up when I see him.

[Tyll Hertsens]

Okay, panic over. I gave them a $10,000 number and a reason to do it, and they said fine.

The one twist is that when I started talking about needing machines to install stuff on and wipe clean, it was mention that copropate IT might have all manner of boneyard machines. A decent server from five years ago would be fine with me to refit.

Anyways, thanks everyone, I gots budget, and I gots some great advice that I'll look back at down the road. Watching that other server build going on at the moment.

[The Monkey]

I approve of that budget.

[justin]

HE90s and a white macbook

[episiarch]

Don't accept any boneyard Macs that don't have Intel processors. From 2006 onward you should be OK. The pre-2006 Macs with PowerPC CPUs won't run the current rev of the OS, nor software that depends on it.

[CarlSeibert]

Don't accept any boneyard Macs that don't have Intel processors. From 2006 onward you should be OK. The pre-2006 Macs with PowerPC CPUs won't run the current rev of the OS, nor software that depends on it.

This is both true and annoying. It seems that audio software in particular is being written with zero backwards compatibility lately. The Intel-only thing I get, although it's an issue for me. Snow Leopard only? Geez. But it's reality in the market. And something to take developers to task over.

[grawk]

I don't think it's reasonable to take developers to task for writing for the current OS and hardware, honestly.

[Dusty Chalk]

It is if they're not going to support the old versions that worked on the old hardware (and yes, this from a software developer). I do agree that they should write "natively" if they can (I.E. if they can take advantage of the latest and greatest operating system calls/CPU instruction sets/etc., then yes, reward the people who have the latest and greatest hardware and software with these abilities. But if you've been working with Cakewalk version 2 or whatever, it's kind of dismaying to know that that bug you reported in 1979 isn't ever going to get fixed. (Not that you shouldn't have figured that out by now.) I mean, c'mon, musicians are poor (for the most part).