Torpedo Posted July 9, 2015 Report Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Just great, Steve. NFLO Edit: looks like yesterday night I was too tired even to write the right name. Sorry Steve Edited July 10, 2015 by Torpedo
Dusty Chalk Posted July 9, 2015 Report Posted July 9, 2015 Walked into a homophobic discussion with gay slurs, and idiotic statements about how the new gay marriage ruling is a slap in the face to Christians and their beliefs. It got very, very quiet when I walked into the room. But for the first time I can remember, I remained calm. I stated my case without malice and without raising my voice. I have no idea if I changed anyone's mind in any way, but I don't really care. I was so happy with myself for not flying off the handle. I have to attribute recent events and my experiences at this years Gay Pride Parade in San Francisco, for my new found patience. I now think of all my great friends who wouldn't want me any other way than what I am, and I gather much strength from that. NFLO! Also the growing realization that those people are in the dwindling minority. 1
dsavitsk Posted July 9, 2015 Report Posted July 9, 2015 Good for you, Steve. The notion that a 3000 year old book somehow represents justification for bigotry is nonsense. 9
Absorbine_Sr Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 Walked into a homophobic discussion with gay slurs, and idiotic statements about how the new gay marriage ruling is a slap in the face to Christians and their beliefs. It got very, very quiet when I walked into the room. But for the first time I can remember, I remained calm. I stated my case without malice and without raising my voice. I have no idea if I changed anyone's mind in any way, but I don't really care. I was so happy with myself for not flying off the handle. I have to attribute recent events and my experiences at this years Gay Pride Parade in San Francisco, for my new found patience. I now think of all my great friends who wouldn't want me any other way than what I am, and I gather much strength from that. NFLO! Right on my friend. Love you. And yes, I did give Debbie the hug you sent. She sends her love as well.
roadtonowhere08 Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 Oh, I think straight people are doing a great job of alienating the idea of religion for new generations without the LGBT community having to lift a finger. Good for you, Steve. I've given up long ago talking about religion and politics to people who are not open for discussion. You are on the right side of history, and that is all that matters. If they do not like it, fuck 'em.
shellylh Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 Walked into a homophobic discussion with gay slurs, and idiotic statements about how the new gay marriage ruling is a slap in the face to Christians and their beliefs. It got very, very quiet when I walked into the room. But for the first time I can remember, I remained calm. I stated my case without malice and without raising my voice. I have no idea if I changed anyone's mind in any way, but I don't really care. I was so happy with myself for not flying off the handle. I have to attribute recent events and my experiences at this years Gay Pride Parade in San Francisco, for my new found patience. I now think of all my great friends who wouldn't want me any other way than what I am, and I gather much strength from that. NFLO! [emoji3]
blessingx Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Nice going Steve. Had a conversation with a group yesterday and the consensus was two presidential elections out this will be mostly a mute point. Of course extremists will be left (a sign of a general fading), but even those currently angling for political advantages won't have that option reasonably quickly. On the other side of history, I miss Plymouths. Stumbled on a car show tonight. Edited July 10, 2015 by blessingx 3
acidbasement Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 Fuck those fucking fuckers, Steve. Good on you for having so much more grace in the situation than they obviously did. I bought a fishing license last week and took the kids fishing today. Caught a small northern pike, which I cleaned and intend to eat tomorrow, bones be damned. The kids were pumped. I think we'll do that again. 2
CarlSeibert Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Good on you, Steve. For all the stated reasons. I wonder. What's the Christian religion's positron on hypocritical fucktards like those, eternity-wise? Edited July 10, 2015 by CarlSeibert
skullguise Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 So good on you, Steve. Don't let them drag you to their level. I read an article on the slight "softening" of the anti-gay-marriage stance by the pope, and it had this quote His comments did not fundamentally change the policy of the Catholic Church, which holds that while homosexual orientation is not in itself sinful, homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered” "Intrinsically disordered" Okaaaayyyyy. Wonder what all the priests who molested young boys have to say about that...and what god would say about them as they pray....and were hidden and protected by the church itself. Hypocritical fucktards is pretty spot on Carl! 1
swt61 Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 The hypocrisy in the Catholic Church is on an immeasurable scale. While some people think of child molesters who pray on boys somehow related to gay men and homosexuality in general, there is absolutely no relation whatsoever. Child molestation is rape, and rape is not about sex, but about power. I've mentioned before how pissed off I get about that comparison to homosexuality. While I'm not surprised at how Catholic people have little understanding of gay people, I cannot for the life of me wrap my brain around the idea that having consensual sex with a member of your own gender can somehow be seen as similar or worse than the rape of a child. While the Catholic Church would quietly shuffle off a molesting priest to another diocese, they would publicly condemn gay men and women for basically acts of love. So "Intrinsically disordered" is in one way a giant step forward. Also, as the general population becomes more understanding and comfortable with homosexuality, the Catholic Church has absolutely no choice but to soften the rhetoric. As for me, what has me most excited these days, is that equal rights has to be just around the corner. I can still be fired in Texas for being gay. No recourse at all! But that first domino has fallen, and surely the momentum is irreversible now. I love you gays and gals dearly! 7
shellylh Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 While some people think of child molesters who pray on boys somehow related to gay men and homosexuality in general, there is absolutely no relation whatsoever. Child molestation is rape, and rape is not about sex, but about power. This! Well put Steve.
blessingx Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 Also, as the general population becomes more understanding and comfortable with homosexuality, the Catholic Church has absolutely no choice but to soften the rhetoric.I hope so. It's better than shifting the Catholic power base to countries less progressive, which some fear. First step south of the Equator has shown signs of hope... even today.I'm not an optimistic guy, especially around religion/theology, but I do think we should celebrate the sometimes hidden moves forward in the tornadoes of ridiculousness. Apologies if I used this example before (it hits home as I still remember my mother trying unsuccessfully to explain the difference between dinosaurs and dragons), but Young Earth Creationists may think dinosaurs and humans played hopscotch together, but some mainstream Protestant Christian denominations*, even into the '70s, doubted dinosaurs existed (or thought they existed solely as a test). Dinosaurs are now REAL, even to the lunies! Progress.Of course no one had to be really against gay marriage until it had a possibility of existing, but the three steps ahead tactics of those fighting against, by some even in public statements since the Supreme Court decision, sure feels like an acknowledgment of gays/lesbians as people and a larger society acceptance, no longer possible to ignore. That some have pivoted from spokespersons of the American public to a "protect our religious views" minority position, seems huge no? Even the lunies realize.* BTW, we may want to be careful interchangibly using "Catholics", "Catholic Church" and "Christians." 1
skullguise Posted July 10, 2015 Report Posted July 10, 2015 Supremely put, Steve. Apologies if it was seeming like I was making any comparison between child molestation and gay sex, certainly not the case. It was more along the lines of calling the religious hypocrites out for being against one thing (love and sex between consenting adults) while allowing, hiding, or DOING the other.
swt61 Posted July 11, 2015 Report Posted July 11, 2015 Apologies if it was seeming like I was making any comparison between child molestation and gay sex... No, no. I didn't get that from you at all. I simply wanted to bring to light how ridiculous the Catholic rating system of "sins" is to my view. And Ric makes a good point...I don't mean to lump Catholics and Christians together. I don't even lump Catholics and the Catholic hierarchy together. I have met some really great Christians and Catholics. And many of both religious backgrounds have been very supportive to our cause. My disdain is almost solely with those in "the business" of religion. 2
luvdunhill Posted July 11, 2015 Report Posted July 11, 2015 Good for you, Steve. The notion that a 3000 year old book somehow represents justification for bigotry is nonsense. I wonder. What's the Christian religion's positron on hypocritical fucktards like those, eternity-wise? The same, though I am not sure if that's a real question. 1
Dusty Chalk Posted July 11, 2015 Report Posted July 11, 2015 I simply wanted to bring to light how ridiculous the Catholic rating system of "sins" is to my view. I for one am glad you did, and not simply so that you can forward the gay agenda. ;-p No, seriously, the two are often mentioned in the same breath, and it's not even the church's doing -- they'd love to hear all the clamor about child molesters in the clergy go away. They certainly try to sweep it under the rug enough. But why? The two have nothing to do with each other. And even if one does think it's wrong (and I have some particularly staunch, line-toeing religious friends who do), I doubt even they will agree that the two are on the same level. I will certainly mention that the next time the topic reasserts itself.
swt61 Posted July 11, 2015 Report Posted July 11, 2015 I'd like to point out that Marc was one of the first people on this forum that I came out to. It was face to face, and Marc's support and understanding played a large role in me feeling good about coming out to the forum. Marc is a religious person, and has always made me feel completely comfortable, not only around himself, but around his two young children as well. I respect his religious beliefs, and consider him a great friend. 1
Dusty Chalk Posted July 11, 2015 Report Posted July 11, 2015 Yeah, I have open-minded religious friends too, one or two of them right here on this forum. I don't know how to differentiate them verbally. Maybe if I took religion out as the primary descriptor and made it the secondary descriptor: "... (and I have some particularly staunch, line-toeing religious friends who do)..." becomes "...(and I have some homophobic friends who use religion as a crutch to justify their bigotry...who do)...". Needs work. I'm thinking of one friend in particular who is really just toeing the line, isn't that hateful, and just hasn't thought through the consequences of her attitude because it doesn't affect her directly. As far as she knows, she doesn't have any gay family or friends.
luvdunhill Posted July 11, 2015 Report Posted July 11, 2015 Yeah, I remember that well! Dusty, likely your friends might argue they are on the same level from an eternal point of view. The question is how would they feel the need to be judging and treat the two people any different, or be loving and kind towards them, etc. I don't deal with child molestors much, but I do with a very strong patriarchal group of individuals that leads to other kinds of abuse, psychological and otherwise, in he guise of child-rearing and women. That is hard for me to deal with, though something you guys probably see very little. Lots to say on the subject, but I enjoy reading more than participating.
Craig Sawyers Posted July 14, 2015 Report Posted July 14, 2015 In the UK before 1967, any gay sex was illegal and an imprisonable offence (like Oscar Wilde), or "treated" by chemical castration (as they did with Alan Turing). The 1967 "Sexual offences Act" decriminalized gay sex in private for those over 21. In 1994 that was reduced to 18 (even though the heterosexual age of consent was 16) In 2000 the age of consent was equalized at 16 for both gays and heteros There have been further amendments (such as removal of "gross misconduct" and "buggery" from the statute books), but true equality in the eyes of the law is a very recent thing indeed, as is gay marriage (2014).
swt61 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Posted July 15, 2015 Pretty much the same here. The Stonewall Riots in June of 1969 really started the fight for gay rights. Though it's been a very long fight. We are the last minority still waiting to be granted the same rights and protection the rest of the population enjoys. I see it happening pretty quickly now. Anyone interested in the history of said riots should check out "Stonewall". It's a fun watch, and for Scandal fans, a fun new way to see "Huck". 1
Hopstretch Posted July 15, 2015 Report Posted July 15, 2015 The Simpsons did it first. Allowable, I hope, for the excellent pun?
skullguise Posted July 17, 2015 Report Posted July 17, 2015 Just made reservations for a place in East Boothbay Harbor Maine for Karen's birthday weekend. Same place we stayed at last year, we both loved it. Happy wife = happy me! 5
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