Advice on which in-ear monitors to choose

[bmasseur]

I honestly differ a bit with the advice to get JH customs for this application. While my JHs fit me very nicely, IMO they're not all that for isolation. It fills the ear but in my experience it's still somewhat transmissive. I get significantly better isolation with a slightly pliable custom eartip - like the ACS tips or certain of the Westone materials - and slightly better isolation still with an expansion tip (foam, but flanges can work too) that really overfills the ear beyond the point of long-term comfort. Anyway, assuming the OP is truly serious about isolation, and would like to stay in budget, I'd suggest ready-to-wear over customs.

So bmasseur, my advice is this: for best bang for your buck, do not get customs, look toward the lower end of your price range in ready-to-wear. Specifically I'd suggest Etymotic mc5 (or mc3) or above for really good clarity, or Shure (whatever model best hits your budget/capability curve) for more bass impact at the expense (IMO) of sharp-edged clarity for things like hard percussion and cymbal strikes.

Really, though, start towards the lower end. It sounds fantastic. It takes a fair amount of time for your ears to get sufficiently used to this level of fidelity to make it really worthwhile to invest in (say) ER-4 Etys over mc3 or hf5 Etys. With the money you save by starting with lesser models of Ety or Shure (or one of the others, though I'm less familiar with them), you can try a second brand if the first one you buy doesn't have quite the sound signature you are looking for. After you've settled on something then later for added comfort you can have ACS eartips made for them. All that and you're still within budget, probably with budget left over to put towards your next step up in audio now that you know what you like, or towards a stunningly decent DIY amp.

Thanks, I wasn't expecting to find such a helpful response amongst all the spamming. I did a little research on some IEM charts and whatnot and it looks like the Phonak Audeo PFE's look pretty good for what I'm looking for. I'm just concerned about the bass when listening to something like Tool. I thought the Monster Turbine Pro Gold's might solve this issue but I wonder if I'd be giving up the clarity? Does anyone has any input or experience with these models?

[mypasswordis]

Really? Really, now? You were given helpful advice in nearly every post and the best you could come up with from that was the Monster Turbines? You're either stupid or a troll.

[Torpedo]

Both, most trolls are stupid.

[bmasseur]

Really? Really, now? You were given helpful advice in nearly every post and the best you could come up with from that was the Monster Turbines? You're either stupid or a troll.

What's wrong with the Turbine Golds? They got pretty solid all around reviews, better than anything else for $250 that I could see. They also have good isolation, clarity and no hiss. If you guys have a better recommendation I'm all ears, but for my needs they were the best fit I could find.

[mypasswordis]

If you wanted people to recommend you Turbine Golds you should have asked at Head-Fi.org - Headphone forums and reviews for audiophiles. None of us recommended it.

[Dusty Chalk]

That looks like the frequency response equivalent of a cold shower.

(makes Pacman 'game over' sound)

[episiarch]

I haven't heard that Monster Turbine, but from the HeadRoom graph mpi helpfully posted, it's way, way bass-heavy. From 1kHz on up it looks OK, but at 200Hz it's up 10dB, which is a lot, and the low bass and subsonics are up 20dB, which I assume is a satisfying sound for someone but to me seems more like the earphone of equivalent of a head cold with blocked sinuses.

Judging (again) from the FR graph, if you choose this earphone you are choosing an extreme: not neutral, not a-bit-on-the-warm-side, not bass-boosted, not downright-bassy, but bass-at-almost-any-cost. Perhaps that's what you want, but I think you'd be missing out on a lot. With your budget you could afford a very nice level of audio quality and musicality, and I think it would be sort of a pity to put a substantial chunk of it towards something that appears to be essentially a tarted-up and overpriced bass-delivery system. It's a little like going into a fine wine shop with a few hundred dollars to spend on one or a few quite good bottles, and heading straight for the one with the highest alcohol content.

But those are just my biases. You're the one that has to be happy with the purchase.

[laxx]

Most people who create threads asking for advice already have their minds made up and are just looking for people to agree with them.

Honestly, if you don't go custom, go Etymotic ER-4 or Triple-fi 10 (if you can get them for a good price, they're awesome for $100). It's that simple.

[CarlSeibert]

That looks like the frequency response equivalent of a cold shower.

An interesting analogy, given the conflicting sensations one endures in a cold shower. Never thought about it before. So I wonder what the FR of a cold shower would be. Thump and droop or a an icicle at 7 KHz?

[bmasseur]

Nope, completely unnecessary. You only need monitors if you're doing live sound or recording, not with electric drums. Get any old thing. Etymotics, perhaps. ER-4...p? s? n? ...ER-4something.

I'm going to be doing a lot more recording vocals, guitar, acoustic drums, etc. I may or may not sell the electric kit, I'm just using it to practice until my basement is finished and I can get the acoustic kit. I did some research on the ER-4 and I was initially put off by lack of bass reverb reported by head-fi on their Top-Tier Universal IEM Comparison Chart, but this wasn't the only place I was recommended them and for their price ($225 or so) they definitely seem worth consideration. I've read other reviews that say they offer deep bass response. They also offer (allegedly) more isolation than a lot of other IEMs (35-42Db; would all of you guys who recommended Etymotics ER-4 say this is accurate from your personal experience?).

I haven't heard that Monster Turbine, but from the HeadRoom graph mpi helpfully posted, it's way, way bass-heavy. From 1kHz on up it looks OK, but at 200Hz it's up 10dB, which is a lot, and the low bass and subsonics are up 20dB, which I assume is a satisfying sound for someone but to me seems more like the earphone of equivalent of a head cold with blocked sinuses.

Judging (again) from the FR graph, if you choose this earphone you are choosing an extreme: not neutral, not a-bit-on-the-warm-side, not bass-boosted, not downright-bassy, but bass-at-almost-any-cost. Perhaps that's what you want, but I think you'd be missing out on a lot. With your budget you could afford a very nice level of audio quality and musicality, and I think it would be sort of a pity to put a substantial chunk of it towards something that appears to be essentially a tarted-up and overpriced bass-delivery system. It's a little like going into a fine wine shop with a few hundred dollars to spend on one or a few quite good bottles, and heading straight for the one with the highest alcohol content.

But those are just my biases. You're the one that has to be happy with the purchase.

Thanks for the sound advice. I hadn't read that anywhere, I saw the Turbine Pro golds at the head-fi chart and it said they were pretty balanced. Other reviews I had read said similar things, including that they were a much better buy than the Beats by Dre phones, but those never appealed to me in the first place (Beats by Dre). Considering I found a pair of Turbine golds for $250 (free shipping) they also seemed worth consideration. Overwhelming bass is definitely the last thing I want, I just don't want my bass to be lacking.

It takes a fair amount of time for your ears to get sufficiently used to this level of fidelity to make it really worthwhile to invest in (say) ER-4 Etys over mc3 or hf5 Etys.

Is this actually true?

After some research on models like the JH5s and the UE4s they seem a little out of my price range. They both start at $400+ (I think this would be a more worthwhile investment for a second pair of monitors with custom fit heads, when I have the money) and thats the top end of my range. If I was to go for a lower end IEM to adjust my ears to the fidelity, would the Phonak Audeo PFE not be a good buy? They are around $120, and I haven't read any bad reviews about them other than the bass might be lacking a bit. I found them on the anythingbuyipod IEM chart.

I also found the SM3s on the head-fi chart, and haven't been able to find a single complaint about them. They are a little near the top end of my price range ($360+shipping) but I think they might be worth the investment.

Overall I'm considering the following models and would really appreciate further advice:

(In order from most-likely to least-likely to purchase)

Etymotics ER-4p ($225)/Earsonics SM3 ($360)

Phonak Audeo PFE ($140)

Monster Turbine Gold Pro ($250) - I'm going to read some more reviews on the bass impact of this model

Overall I want a good balance of sounds, with a nice warm and rich bass, but nothing overpowering, and not at the expense of dynamics or clarity. Thanks so far.

[bmasseur]

Edit: Sorry I can't edit I think. I took a look at the Ultimate Ears TripleFi 10s and they seem like a good buy for ($180). Any complaints?

[laxx]

I hear don't send them in to get customed.

[episiarch]

Is this actually true?

It's my opinion that it is. I will go further and say that the number of people on the other site who claim things like: ER-4P and ER-4S sound the same, ER-4P didn't need an amp with (insert weak source here), changing filters on an Etymotic is never needed and is just a profit center to fleece the rubes, an Ety-designed $100 IEM sold by Altec Lansing was actually a stealth ER-4 inside, and more along these lines is solid evidence, as far as I'm concerned, that many people never get very good at listening to what their equipment is really delivering.

Sure, you could be an exception. But even if you are I still think you would be better served to start out on the cheap end, because:

a) the marginal difference in quality between, say, an Ety hf5 and an Ety ER-4P is small (actually IMO it's also negative: I rate ER-4P < hf5 < ER-4S), while the marginal difference in cost is large. If you can get a used 4P for a price comparable to an hf5/3/2, then okay, I won't argue. But otherwise you're spending an extra $100 or more for a very dubious (and again IMO negative FWIW) difference in SQ. Why do that unless you already know you are going to turn out to be the kind of person who hears and cares about that small bit of difference (like us), or have enough spare $100s in your wallet that you don't really care about each of them earning its keep (like some of us)?

we don't all like the same things. Polling even a collection of very good ears for their favorite IEMs in your price range, and choosing the one with the most votes, does not provide very much confidence that it's the IEM for you. Even if one model gets a full 60% of the votes - not a mere plurality but a freaking decisive majority - what's your confidence that you'll turn out to be a member of that 60%? Well, arguably it's better than half, but that's far from a sure thing, so why spend your money in such a way that you have only one chance to get it right?

[Tyll Hertsens]

Really, dude, these guys know what they're talking about.

Look at all the first suggestions.

The only thing I'll add is that the new Etys are the shit and I'd get one with a mike so you can use it on your phone.

[manaox2]

Edit: Sorry I can't edit I think. I took a look at the Ultimate Ears TripleFi 10s and they seem like a good buy for ($180). Any complaints?

They weren't good enough for me at $250 or at $99 last times I bought them. So... yeah, all universal IEMs suck.

[Dusty Chalk]

I actually do not have actual experience with the ER-4anything, but from those who've had experience with both it and the ER-6i, it's supposed to be a step up. And the ER-6i's are the single most isolating IEM's I've ever heard. Or rather, not heard. Or rather, "...had prevent me from hearing". Tri-flanges rule for that purpose.

The ER-6i might also be a good starting point, but it's well below your price point. I'm a bass freak, and I'm quite happy with its bass response. But believe it or not, even for a drummer, you really need a full-frequency response IEM, not one that accentuates bass.

[episiarch]

Ety blather from your resident Ety-head and not-quite-collector:

I won't disparage the ER-6i, which I think is really darn good for the price. However in my experience ER-6i << ER-6 (late, lamented, non RoHS compliant) < hf2/hf3/hf5 < ER-4S so I think there's a pretty useful benefit to going with the hf series instead. That said, the ER-6i is still very representative of the Ety sound signature, so even if I'm not wild about it on its own merits it's still the least expensive way to find out whether you're an Ety person or not.

I haven't heard the Ety MC series yet, but people keep saying great things about it, and if it's anything like what people say then it's a bargain at the price. Sight unseen I would probably go with an MC5 over an ER-6i at this point because the ER-6i's weaknesses are so apparent to me*. However the ER-6i is much more tiny and 'stealth' if that's something that matters.

Ety hf2/hf3/hf5 all use the same transducers and shell, and sound alike, differing only in the mic pod (if any) and what controls are on it. The Ety hf2 was a massive bargain a few weeks ago because it's been effectively replaced by the hf3 (which adds volume buttons on the mic pod); Amazon actually had the hf2 for less than the hf5, making it a fantastic deal. That's no longer the case, making the hf2/hf3/hf5 merely very, very good deals.

The hf2/hf3/hf5 share the same stem dimensions as the ER-4 series, which is a big plus in my book. Try out an hf2/3/5, and if you like it then upgrade to ACS tips, and then later (MUCH later, when you can afford an amp to properly drive the ER-4S and skip the shaky FR of the ER-4P entirely) transfer those tips to your ER-4S. Total win.

My advice, in short:

- Buy a good earphone in the $80-$130 ish range. Personally I like Etys (did it show?) but you are unlikely to go wrong with Shure, a quality brand made by real audiophiles (who just happen to prefer a warmer tonal signature than I personally go for).

- If you're happy with what you got, then your next purchase is ACS custom eartips for what you have. Superior comfort, improved speed of getting the right fit on each insertion, great isolation. IMO your next $100 is much better spent here than in starting with a $200-$250 earphone that you may not even like that much.

- If you're not happy with what you got in step 1, return to step 1 and try a different brand.

- If you're on a budget then only after you have found what you really like should you move up to the top of that brand's range. Otherwise you're just gambling, really.

But, again, these are just my biases and it's you that has to be happy with what you get.

*Capsule description of my complaint against the ER-6i: it seems like it has good upper-end response, but it's really smeary. I'm thinking, for example, of a piece of music that has some really quick, really light work with a triangle or similar metallic percussion instrument. With a higher-end Ety you would hear, say, three individual strikes, "ring-a-ting." With the ER-6i those strikes all merge into a single "splat," sort of a cymbal sound, with the individual strikes just gone. It's one of those things that once I've heard it I can't not hear it when it happens, so it bugs me extra much.

[mypasswordis]

I agree on the smearing and disagree on the upper-end response, I think it doesn't extend far at all. The AL im716 sounds significantly better imo. Not hating on it at all, for some reason the other < $100 universal IEMs seem even less appealing to me were I to have to decide again. I have not had the pleasure of hearing a ER-4P/S or hf* yet but if I were to need better universal IEMs they would be my first choice.

[Dusty Chalk]

(makes a mental note to upgrade to the ER-4S ASAP)

[episiarch]

Well, ya know, I'm not sure anybody else agrees with me about the ER-4P thing.

[grawk]

Dusty, do you have the ER4Ps? If so, just get a 75ohm adapter for them and you can get the same benefit.

[Dusty Chalk]

(changes mental note to ER4P and the adapter -- receives "duplicate database record" error...looks in database, realizes the "ASAP" part got ...uh... kinda forgotten)

But I do have an amp that will properly drive the ER-4S, so the adapter probably doesn't need to be ASAP.

[episiarch]

FWIW I've had good luck picking up used ER-4S's on the other site, where the resale value of a good earphone that needs an amp is so often way lower than the resale value of a worse (oops, is my bias showing again?) earphone that <scare-quotes>everybody</scare-quotes> knows <scare-quotes>doesn't need an amp</scare-quotes>.

[K3cT]

I'm actually a bit conflicted with ER4P/S. I love its sound but only when used with the double/triple flange tips but goddamn, they are a pain in the ass to wear in that configuration.

If price, sound and ergonomics are all considered then I will go for the Triple.fi 10 Pro. It's really hard to beat it in the $150-class range.

[grawk]

If you can come up with $150, I'd suggest you do it 3 times, and get JH5s