B&W 802 Series 80 repair

[The Monkey]

maybe get somebody who knows what they are doing to work on them, Dinny. i understand that doing is the best way of learning, but those are pretty nice speakers.

Nonsense!

[kevin gilmore]

If blubliss can repair a singlepower ES1 doing current source upgrades, and a few other things (without killing himself)

then the monkey can certainly handle changing out the caps in a speaker crossover.

[The Monkey]

That's ok, I'll make sure to drink plenty of whiskey before I start the project.

[mypasswordis]

Another point that they touch on is if you are replacing a lossy cap with a good cap plus a series resistance of 0.8 ohms (their example) to compensate, why bother? I guess you would have to try it, or better if someone was able to analyze the FR, phase etc. changes that you brought about with your tweaks. And of course, listening.

Yup, there are other deviations from the ideal capacitor than ESR like ESL, dielectric absorption, temperature fluctuation coefficient, non-flat capacitance with respect to input frequency, etc. Also the amount of loss is nonlinear with respect to frequency so you can't even model it by adding a simple resistor.

I just realized, electrolytics have improved over the years so the ones you replace the old ones with may very well have lower ESR and better characteristics in general anyway.

[The Monkey]

One wonders whether it's worth doing then...

I think B&W may still sell the crossovers. Perhaps that's the way to go.

[mypasswordis]

It's definitely worth doing and must be done. Electrolytics need to be replaced every 20-30 years because the electrolyte dries up/evaporates.

[kevin gilmore]

If you are truely insane you can always roll your own capacitors..

copper, or silver foil and teflon insulation. Tune for sound...

Could take a while though. And a LOT of booze.

Electrolytics really do dry up after 10 to 20 years. Whether or not they

are used.

[The Monkey]

Ok. I guess the first step will be to see if I can open up the damn things to get to the crossovers. As for the binding posts, is that a pretty straightforward swap? Anything general I need to know?

In related news, the amp powering these speakers is an Adcom GFA-2, which, as far as I can tell, still works fine with the exception of the blown fuse. I emailed what I thought was the central Adcom parts place and they want $19.95 for the schematic/service manual. That seems kind of cheesy for a 20+ year old amp, doesn't it?

[luvdunhill]

Dinny:

If you can pop the crossover boards out, send them to me. I'll rebuild them for ya. Simply remove (the largest driver) and stick your hand in and fish around for them. They might be glued down.

Also, don't have an account at this place, but I bet this link will work once you register:

http://audiokarma.net/forums/showpost.php?p=678456&postcount=7

Edited November 1, 2010 by luvdunhill

[deepak]

Simply remove (the largest driver) and stick your hand in and fish around for them.

[luvdunhill]

well, I should warn you. I have found nests and various types of excrement in speakers before.

[The Monkey]

Thanks Marc!

[luvdunhill]

Thanks Marc!

No problem, I really like doing this sort of stuff. Take note of the wires and which goes to which driver (there are two per driver and the polarity is important, so perhaps mark the wires A-D and also mark the crossover boards the same letter) Its possible that one wire from the drivers might connect directly to the binding posts as well, and also there could be more than one board in there. Also note how much larger you think the boards can be and still fit, as most likely we will want to make things a bit bigger usually the woofer hole is one of the limiting factors in the size, as you'd likely suspect.

[Zonker92]

I found this thread and had to register to chime in: I have a minty pair of 802 Series 80s, but I guess mine are a slightly newer style, without the rear controls. I'm posting to say that I understand that their crossovers are located under the fabric covers on top of the lower cabinets, just under the heads. I don't really plan to mess with mine, since my speakers really sound terrific to me, although this thread does give me some concern about dried electrolytes.

I found this photo on line, which appears to be an 802 crossover with the APOC circuit. I don't know if it's stock, but I think so. The "Model 802" owner's manual I downloaded says they are maintenance fee; they don't need a battery and are powered by the amp.

I tried to look at my crossovers just out of curiosity, a few days ago. I removed the heads and tugged at the fabric covers but they wouldn't budge, so I didn't force them.

Based on this photo, I don't think the crossovers are accessible from the mid-bass driver openings ...

[EDIT] But then I just found this thread which claims that they are battery-powered and that the batteries do need to be replaced, so maybe the owner's manual I have is the wrong one, as this photo. I'm kind of confused at this point.

Eric

[Zonker92]

But see this: AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums - View Single Post - B&W Series 80 Model 802 Speakers The brochure here states that the series 80 did have APOC. I'm thinking these speakers had several versions. (See here: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/23/230902.html) But what did "Series 80" mean anyway? Was it a reference to the 1980s?

[The Monkey]

Welcome to HeadCase, Zonker. I am similarly confused by the "series 80" designation. I may have a chance this weekend to open up the speakers, but I'm also now concerned that they are rotting and have spiders inside.

[Zonker92]

Thanks, Monkey. Mine are super-clean; I think the (bookmatched) veneer is rosewood. Looks like new. They don't have the hoods over them or the posts for the hoods, but that's fine with me. The mid-bass drivers are not ported so no spiders in mine, I hope.

(I recently bought some JBL 4311s for $25 on Craigslist and spent about $400 restoring them for my garage stereo; they had a dead mouse and a lot of mouse turds inside, and a Happy Meal toy.)

I guess what I want to know is:

• Which version of the Series 80 do I have?
• Do they need new batteries or even have batteries?
• Do they have a matrix enclosure?
• What the heck does "Series 80" even mean?

My surfing on Audiogon, eBay, here and elsewhere just gave me more questions than I had already. I've seen what appear to be my speakers, but with controls on the heads. I've seen them with ports and without. I've seen them with cloth tweeters and metal ones. I've seen them with single pairs of terminals and dual pairs. I've seen them referred to as Series 80s, IIs and IIIs. I've seen people say they have APOC or don't, and they have batteries or don't.

My best guess is that the portless ones with controls were first (802 Series 80 v1?), then mine (portless without controls) (802 Series 80 v2?), then ported with soft domes and no controls (Matrix Series II?), then ported with metal domes and no controls (Matrix Series III?). But that's just my guess at this point.

Phew. Too much caffeine I guess.

[Zonker92]

Then there's this: Speaker Asylum - Re: B&W 802's Series 80 - JerryS, July 31, 2006 at 09:40:06

There were three versions of the 802 before the N802, IIRC. The first had the APOC (clipping protection), and was just called 802. Then came the Series 80 802 Series 2 and Series 3. The Series 80 all used the Matrix enclosure. The Series 2 had the APOC; the Series 3 did not.

I had the "802 Series 80 Matrix Series 2". Disconnecting the APOC made a big improvement to the sound. I also upgraded resistors and caps for just a minor improvement. At the time the Series 3 was introduced, there was some talk that it did not sound as good as the Series 2 because when the power handling of the drivers was increased to eliminate the APOC, the sound quality suffered. I did not verify this.

The 802 Series 2 had a list price of $4000, and the active "bass booster" BAF was an extra cost option. Many times I have wondered if selling my 802-2 was a mistake.

Please see the link to my review below.

I think this is wrong. The 802 matrix series 2 and 3 photos I've found did not refer to their being "Series 80." I think maybe the Series 80 (versions 1 and 2) came first, with no ports, then came the Matrix Series 2 and 3, which were ported.

[Voltron]

tobacco flavored spiders, probably.

[The Monkey]

What's a good vendor for binding posts?

[Zonker92]

Partsexpress.com. See if you can remove the OEM mounting plate, unscrew the nuts holding in the old ones and screw new ones into the existing plate.

[Pars]

What's a good vendor for binding posts?

Cardas here if you want some more foo foo parts

[url=http://www.diycable.com/main/default.php?cPath=26_44_49]DIYCable.com : Intro

[Zonker92]

Now I'm gonna eyeball my 802 S80 binding posts again; honestly, I don't remember them being all that bad. Nothing fancy, but adequate.

[luvdunhill]

What's a good vendor for binding posts?

Da Monkey:

it depends on how thick the cabinets are. You might need an extra long version. I use both Cardas and Vampire. I use the later more these days, as they are cheaper and run about $25 for a stereo set (four binding posts) and are available in extra long versions. These are the short ones:

[Zonker92]

it depends on how thick the cabinets are

I think the OEM binding posts are set into plastic cups in the backs of the cabinets (not thick at all), so it could involve just removing the cups, then unbolting the OEM posts and bolting in new ones, plus reconnecting the internal cables to them.