arnaud Posted August 15, 2011 Report Posted August 15, 2011 It depends how you're doing the measurement. I was doing a sinusoidal sweep measurement to get the frequency response curve vs a waterfall plot from an impulse which by definition gets a lot of non-linearity of the driver. Hence the room (or more likely the table the setup is sitting on) has plenty of time to get back and slightly modify the response. No belief involved. I still expect the room feedback to be down in the noise floor though but I guess better safe than sorry. As for non-linearity of the driver due to impulse test, that'd be a worry if it is a real issue too (because you're basically listening to 99% transient music). Unless the instant power is way beyond the operation range of the driver, you really shouldn't see such non-linearity.
grawk Posted August 15, 2011 Report Posted August 15, 2011 I'd say it's safe to say no one buys grados for how they measure.
arnaud Posted August 15, 2011 Report Posted August 15, 2011 I'd say it's safe to say no one buys grados for how they measure. Haha, yes that is probably a very safe statement. Looking at inner fidelity website, the RS-1 isn't likely to fare much better than the RS-80 I am afraid: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoRS1.pdf
Dreadhead Posted August 15, 2011 Report Posted August 15, 2011 I still expect the room feedback to be down in the noise floor though but I guess better safe than sorry. As for non-linearity of the driver due to impulse test, that'd be a worry if it is a real issue too (because you're basically listening to 99% transient music). Unless the instant power is way beyond the operation range of the driver, you really shouldn't see such non-linearity. Obviously I measured it or I wouldn't have bothered. The nonlinearity impulse test depends a lot on the amplitude of the forcing so who knows. I'd assume if you're doing 90db or so you're probably still nicely linear in a lot of drivers but again who knows.
grawk Posted August 15, 2011 Report Posted August 15, 2011 All of this begs the obvious question: what does it have to do with how fierce the stax sr009 looks?
arnaud Posted August 15, 2011 Report Posted August 15, 2011 Obviously I measured it or I wouldn't have bothered. I don't mean to get you on your horses. I was simply suggesting that sometimes one can draw the wrong conclusions from limited observations. As you know, measurements are hyper sensitive to headphone placement so there's little way to guarantee this was not the main factor in what you observed. Furthermore, since you're doing sine sweep, there's indeed no way to pull these room reflections from the measurement as is possible with an MLS test. The room influence and proportion of direct to reflected field has been key part of my work for the past decade so I am starting to get a feel for it...
arnaud Posted August 15, 2011 Report Posted August 15, 2011 All of this begs the obvious question: what does it have to do with how fierce the stax sr009 looks? Very little, I was placing furnitures while waiting for your impressions. Will stop there!
postjack Posted August 16, 2011 Report Posted August 16, 2011 It's simple, the wooden grado is best for organic instruments made of wood like guitars. They don't measure as well as other headphones because it is impossible to measure a guitar actually with conventional man instruments. The sr009 is made of silver (bright sound as previously said) so it is good only for video game music, EDM, and harps.
Dusty Chalk Posted August 16, 2011 Report Posted August 16, 2011 EDM? Is that anything like IDM, except...
Torpedo Posted August 16, 2011 Report Posted August 16, 2011 EDM? Is that anything like IDM, except... It is estupid instead
Voltron Posted August 16, 2011 Report Posted August 16, 2011 The SR-009 ear cups are silvery, so of course they're more detailed and less warm than the copper-colored Mk1s. Duh. You guys need to hang out in more cable forums. Tee Hee!
arnaud Posted August 16, 2011 Report Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) The SR-009 ear cups are silvery, so of course they're more detailed and less warm than the copper-colored Mk1s. Duh. You guys need to hang out in more cable forums. Actually, frankly speaking the visual appearance can really play tricks on people's mind without them even realizing, like the correlation between the size of a speaker / transducer and the expectation of low frequency extent / presence. It's far fetched but I would not be surprised people unconsciously associate the modern lines of a design like HD800 and the precision finish to some expectation of precise possibly even clinical sound... We've also seen headphone lines being created with essentially the same driver and housing dimensions but a gradation in materials (e.g. ugly plastic vs. nice exotic wood). Regardless of the sound, I bet many if not most will have a preconception toward the wooden headphone sounding better... How is that related to the 009? Well, the finish is resolutely more high-end in comparison to the Omega 2. It's really stupid but I am pretty sure it affected my judgement, even if it's minor (the edition 10 looked marvelous but I felt it sounded like s...t after 10 seconds so fortunately there are limits to the effect ). Edited August 16, 2011 by arnaud
Leonardo Drummond Posted August 16, 2011 Report Posted August 16, 2011 Tee Hee! You know, a friend of mine told me he recently met an audiophile who bought a new system. He got some B&W 800Ds, Krell Evo 600s, AR REF-5 and a Meridian 808.3. Wires? Siltech Royal Signature Emperor II speaker cables, Siltech Royal Signature Empress interconnects and Transparent MM power cables. So he decided to spend 26K (at least, that's the price for 2m) on his speaker cables alone and 24K on the speakers themselves. He said that he thinks the cables are almost more important than the speakers. That's very nice. In fact, I think I'm going to buy those Emperor IIs to rewire my PortaPros. They'll be just like an R10. (on a side note... I don't want to sound jealous, of course I'd love to own his set, and I'm actually happy he could make this dream system come true, but come-on... that doesn't detract me from the fact that this is easily the most insane misalocation of resources I've ever seen in audio)
TMoney Posted August 17, 2011 Report Posted August 17, 2011 Just floating this out there... As long as we are on the subject of how the 009s measure, I wouldn't mind sending my 009s to Tyll if he'd be willing to measure them. I'm thinking that Tyll probably doesn't have a stat amp on hand. As I'm stuck using an old SRM-T1 until I can get going on a KGSSHV, I wonder if anyone would volunteer to send Tyll a nice amp to borrow and use for the measurements. Does that sound like something that might work?
Clarkmc2 Posted August 17, 2011 Report Posted August 17, 2011 (on a side note... I don't want to sound jealous, of course I'd love to own his set, and I'm actually happy he could make this dream system come true, but come-on... that doesn't detract me from the fact that this is easily the most insane misalocation of resources I've ever seen in audio) And I suppose he didn't spend dime one on room treatment... I could make the case that dropping more on new source & DAC, cables and amp to try to improve a dynamic headphone costing less than all that stuff is equally foolish, At least while you can still buy a high end Stax. But then I am prejudiced towards brand S. I doubt I will change my mind about that when I finally hear someone's 009, fierce looking or not.
Voltron Posted August 18, 2011 Report Posted August 18, 2011 Tyll is not yet set up to measure 'stats, and I do not believe it is a lack of amplification. I can send him a 007t if he wants one for that purpose. I won't have 009s for awhile yet it seems.
TMoney Posted August 19, 2011 Report Posted August 19, 2011 Hmm... I wonder what the issue could be as far as measuring stats other than amplification? Given Tyll's known aversion to stats and the fact that this is a stat thread I'll bet it he hasn't seen (and won't see) these posts unless one of us clues him in.
Tyll Hertsens Posted August 19, 2011 Report Posted August 19, 2011 I'd be happy to measure some stuff. Lemme know.
TMoney Posted August 19, 2011 Report Posted August 19, 2011 Thanks for responding, Tyll. If this is going to happen, lets see if we can round up some other electrostats while we are at it. It'd be nice to be able to measure them all on the same amplifier to remove that variable from the equation. Does anyone have some 007s and Lambdas they wouldn't mind sending along? I'm obviously in to send my 009s.
HeadphoneAddict Posted August 20, 2011 Report Posted August 20, 2011 Tyll, would you be testing any headphones at RMAF, where I could loan you a few to measure with my KGSS? (O2 Mk1, HE-60, SR-Lambda, Lambda Nova Signature)
Voltron Posted August 21, 2011 Report Posted August 21, 2011 I'd be happy to measure some stuff. Lemme know. Need my 007t or do you have something already?
Tyll Hertsens Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 Not sure what's going on, Al. But I'm happy to do some measurments. I don't have any estat amps at home, so I'll need one to do the measurements with. TMoney, would you carry on and keep track of this? Anyone sending me gear should PM me for my address. Thanks guys, looking forward to measuring some. Oh, Larry, I won't be bringing my measurement gear down to RMAF this year. Gotta do the reviewer thing. Sorry.
TMoney Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 Yes, I'll take point on this. I think the best course of action would probably be to start a separate thread with a spreadsheet where people can sign up to contribute their various gear for measurement. I'll set it up later this evening unless someone has a better idea. The plan will be to coordinate people sending in their gear so that Tyll can measure whatever electrostatic lineup we are able to get to him with all the measurements taken off a single electrostatic amplifier. If you are game Voltron, then your 007t seems as good a choice an amp as any unless some of our other members want to send Tyll something higher end.
blubliss Posted August 22, 2011 Report Posted August 22, 2011 Looks like ED will be getting some units tomorrow but I do not know how many yet. They are supposed to call me.
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