Schiit Asgard

[Yikes]

I disagree -- sure, things continue to break in after 15 days, but...don't you think it'll be close enough to whatever it's final sound is going to be by then?

Close enough? How close is close enough? That's a subjective evaluation. Ultimately I'd like to hear something as broken-in as humanly possible. I've had products that took in excess of 5-6 hundred hours to settle in (rare), and I've had product that experienced little change after 40-50 hours, There's no way to know for sure. iME products that flow decent amounts of current (Class A amps and such) can take less time than those that don't.

All that being said I hesitate concerning the Asgard not primarily due to insufficient break-in time, but because I hate getting swept up in the FOTM fever. The Asgard is cheap enough that unless it outright sucked I'd end up keeping it, and using it as a spare, and or eventually gifting it to a non-audiophile friend. I enjoy giving decent sounding audio equipment as gifts. I've gifted Grado's (both cartridges and headphones), Amplifiers (CIA and Creek) and even cables.

[n_maher]

I got a PM like this as well....they certainly feel the need to justufy their FOTM!

Who sent you that PM?

[grawk]

If burn in was a significant factor, you'd think there'd be at least 1 instance where it made things worse...

[Pars]

But then it would be burn out, and wouldn't qualify...

[skullguise]

Who sent you that PM?

Cheesebert. But he was actually pretty cool about it, so I answered very nicely. I won't post what he said about how good it was, but it clearly was close to sliced bread

[wgb113]

The burn in and cable conversations drag this hobby into loony-toon land...

[mypasswordis]

Cheesebert. But he was actually pretty cool about it, so I answered very nicely. I won't post what he said about how good it was, but it clearly was close to sliced bread

Only listening to hi rez off a DAC1 which is better than a $5k DAC playing CDs.

[Nebby]

Nothing from a standard cd is ever better than a cheap dac playing 24/96, remember that.

But what about the cables? Won't the cheap 24/96 dac require "proper" audiophile cables to reveal the extra bits? [/now I'm just being bitter]

[Yikes]

If burn in was a significant factor, you'd think there'd be at least 1 instance where it made things worse...

Sorry, my point isn't keeping track of whether something is better before or after it "Breaks-In", my emphasis is whether or not I enjoy listening to something once it has settled in (meaning that its sound is no longer changing) Once I've had a piece for long enough I evaluate it against my other equipment (or how I remember other equipment or live music to sound). At that point I decide if it's worth keeping. Does it really matter what something sounds like when brand new if IME a products sound typically changes to some degree after being played for a while. A product can not stay new forever, so what it sounds like when brand new has little meaning to me.

After 30 years of buying, auditioning, and selling high performance audio I know that most products do experience a settling in period. So When I seriously audition anything I prefer that it have several hundred hours under its belt. I also make sure that it has been on and powered up long enough for everything to be up to normal operating temperature.

It's just how I roll. YMMV

[Yikes]

The issue with the Asgard is that it is so reasonably priced. It'd be so easy to pull the trigger, and for what? the price of a dinner at a nice restaurant.

[grawk]

or a pair of 4 inch cables from siltech

[Yikes]

or a pair of 4 inch cables from siltech

Sorry - Does not meet the minimum order requirements.

Oh ... and I don't have anything to do with Siltech any longer, except that is for still owning a bunch of it. It's great sounding cable, I will lament its passing from my system when I finally sell the last of it.

[Dusty Chalk]

Close enough? How close is close enough? That's a subjective evaluation.

Close enough is close enough...for you. I.E. for you to be able to determine "where it is going" -- if you can't figure out what it's going to sound like by then...screw it. Yes, I understand you don't want to have to extrapolate, but yeah, that's what I was saying, close enough means close enough for you to extrapolate the "final sound". MHO. You're perfectly welcome to maintain the stance that 15 days is not enough, and I respect that. Personally, I agree with you -- if 15 days is not enough, then screw it.

[spritzer]

If burn in was a significant factor, you'd think there'd be at least 1 instance where it made things worse...

Let alone being able to measure it for either good or bad.

[Yikes]

Are you seriously saying that if we can't measure it that we can't hear it?

I'd say the opposite: If we hear it and can't measure it perhaps the measurements are what's lacking.

I hate fucking objectivists, they notoriously want to have it both ways. "Show me measurements that show that there are differences" then when presented with certain measurements that do show differences (albeit small differences) they loudly proclaim "There's No way that a human could possibly hear such a small difference!"

I don't listen to measurements, nor do I listen under double blind conditions, so I don't give a rats ass about these methods of evaluation. If I enjoy my music more because something is more attractive (if this was the case I would have kept my Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mono's) then so be it. My enjoyment of music is my only objective. I am more likely to give something a chance if it is a Technically Sound design, or if it's attractive, but this doesn't account for why I end up with less attractive or technically less sophisticated designs.

What got me going.... Oh yea... Measurements. There are measurements that show that certain electronic components do change with a certain amount of use. Capacitors for sure and I'm sure that there are others.

[Dusty Chalk]

They thought the world was flat before they figured out how to measure it.

[guzziguy]

I hate fucking objectivists, they notoriously want to have it both ways. "Show me measurements that show that there are differences" then when presented with certain measurements that do show differences (albeit small differences) they loudly proclaim "There's No way that a human could possibly hear such a small difference!"

I don't listen to measurements, nor do I listen under double blind conditions, so I don't give a rats ass about these methods of evaluation. If I enjoy my music more because something is more attractive (if this was the case I would have kept my Bel Canto Ref 1000 Mono's) then so be it. My enjoyment of music is my only objective. I am more likely to give something a chance if it is a Technically Sound design, or if it's attractive, but this doesn't account for why I end up with less attractive or technically less sophisticated designs.

The flip side to this is when believers can't tell the difference in a blind test. To justify their beliefs, they belittle the test or say that it takes a lot of listening to hear the differences. You did this? Why? If you don't give a rat's ass, why are you ranting about it? If it really does take a long time to hear the difference, it's much more likely that one's brain has "broken in", not the equipment. The brain is many orders of magnitude more plastic and adaptive than any piece of hi fi equipment.

However, if this is enhances your enjoyment of the hobby, then it is a good thing for you to do. Does it really matter if the differences are real or perceived? I don't think so.

[Grahame]

Just before this degenerates into an entrenched Subjectivists vs Objectivists "debate", may I say

Me, I'm a fan of the scientific method. If subjectivism works for you, as an individual, that's great.

But, where's the predictive capability?, and how else do we get a feedback loop that improves stuff over time?

[mypasswordis]

The flip side to this is when believers can't tell the difference in a blind test. To justify their beliefs, they belittle the test or say that it takes a lot of listening to hear the differences. You did this? Why? If you don't give a rat's ass, why are you ranting about it? If it really does take a long time to hear the difference, it's much more likely that one's brain has "broken in", not the equipment. The brain is many orders of magnitude more plastic and adaptive than any piece of hi fi equipment.

However, if this is enhances your enjoyment of the hobby, then it is a good thing for you to do. Does it really matter if the differences are real or perceived? I don't think so.

This.

Though apparently I do like my headphones burned in at least 15 years.

[skullguise]

The only REAL thing that matters is what color lights a piece of equipment uses.....none of this objective versus subjective BS!

[Voltron]

Blue LED or it's shit (not Schiit)!

[skullguise]

Blue LED or it's shit (not Schiit)!

Liquid out of the nose worthy!

[Grahame]

Nah, what about the T-shirt!

Flash T-Qualiser T-Shirt (TQ Raver)

Edit: plenty of youtube videos show this in action ...

Edited July 15, 2010 by Grahame

[spritzer]

I for know cables matter but we too can measure that. Talk to any layman about the myth of electrical components some how changing after 200-800 hours of use and they think you are retarded. Dig a little deeper and why would caps somehow start to change after 200 hours after what, a few million charge cycles? Also, why is burnin always good, why does it never make anything sound bad?

Now I for one know it takes a while to know any piece of gear. This time gets shorter with experience much the same way any professional who has to use his subjective skills does. I could really hold a lecture about bread and cake tasting and just how wrong and fucking clueless most people are. That said, the people who bang on the most about burn-in are the least experienced and have never held a soldering iron in their life. HAve no clue what makes the equipment tick nor how these supposed changes would come about.

[jinp6301]

I could really hold a lecture about bread and cake tasting and just how wrong and fucking clueless most people are

"Your ideas intrigue me. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter."