Schiit Asgard

[spritzer]

I could rant all day about that but instead I just make a killer loaf which people come from all over Reykjavik to buy. Hell people come from NJ to buy my pastries...

[Dusty Chalk]

I for know cables matter but we too can measure that.

Wait, what? Did you just contradict yourself? If you can measure the difference in cables, why can't you measure the difference in an amp?

Also, just because laypeople don't fully understand electronics does not mean that you should misguide them -- on the contrary, the scale of the importance of burn-in is an issue of education, IMHO.

Also, why is burnin always good, why does it never make anything sound bad?

Finally, this "always" of which you speak -- was that scientifically measured, or just your one human's perception of what is probably not a statistically valid sample?

[spritzer]

Wait, what? Did you just contradict yourself? If you can measure the difference in cables, why can't you measure the difference in an amp?

What indeed are you talking about? I said burnin is crap but different cable designs have different electrical properties which you can clearly measure. That can't be said about burn-in effects after 250 hours in any piece of gear...

Also, just because laypeople don't fully understand electronics does not mean that you should misguide them -- on the contrary, the scale of the importance of burn-in is an issue of education, IMHO.Finally, this "always" of which you speak -- was that scientifically measured, or just your one human's perception of what is probably not a statistically valid sample?

Again WTF are you talking about? I was speaking about the fucknuts on HF banging about burn-in as if it was some set in stone fact.

[atothex]

Cheesebert. But he was actually pretty cool about it, so I answered very nicely. I won't post what he said about how good it was, but it clearly was close to sliced bread

Chesebert = TC_Shadow?

[Dusty Chalk]

What indeed are you talking about?

...Again WTF are you talking about?

[mypasswordis]

I for know cables matter but we too can measure that. Talk to any layman about the myth of electrical components some how changing after 200-800 hours of use and they think you are retarded. Dig a little deeper and why would caps somehow start to change after 200 hours after what, a few million charge cycles? Also, why is burnin always good, why does it never make anything sound bad?

Now I for one know it takes a while to know any piece of gear. This time gets shorter with experience much the same way any professional who has to use his subjective skills does. I could really hold a lecture about bread and cake tasting and just how wrong and fucking clueless most people are. That said, the people who bang on the most about burn-in are the least experienced and have never held a soldering iron in their life. HAve no clue what makes the equipment tick nor how these supposed changes would come about.

I agree that everything can be explained by measurements, but I also agree that this hobby is meant for enjoyment and people can take as much LSD, smoke as much pot, delude themself as much as they want that what they're hearing is true and I will believe they hear what they believe they hear. Until it gets to the point that they become ridiculous fanboys and fucktards who won't listen to reason and start spewing a lot of crap, then they need to be shut down for the sake of the community.

[Dusty Chalk]

If burn in was a significant factor, you'd think there'd be at least 1 instance where it made things worse...

Also, why is burnin always good, why does it never make anything sound bad?

By the way, here is very likely a way in which burn-in makes things worse. And it's not isolated, it's quite repeatable, and has been (repeated). Specifically, the line about "...maybe the electrolytic caps are getting leaky (they do get hot inside the chassis)..." being the probable cause for the deterioration of that amp.

EDIT: PS I'm not saying this to push your buttons, piss you off, continue an argument, or any of those things. I say it because I am one of those fucknuts who honestly believes he's heard it (burn-in), and I'm trying to understand it. You guys are smart, perhaps you can explain it to me, most of those fucknuts couldn't explain things to me to my level of satisfaction, because they also believe power cords make a difference, and that's pretty much where I draw the line.

PPS I am also -- other than alcohol and caffeine and allergy meds -- drug-free. Alright, that's a lot of exceptions. Certainly hallucinogenic-free.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Dusty Chalk

[Yikes]

Made me laugh out loud, thank you.

[Fitz]

PPS I am also -- other than alcohol and caffeine and allergy meds -- drug-free. Alright, that's a lot of exceptions. Certainly hallucinogenic-free.

I'm all in favor of redefining drug-free as hallucinogenic-free.

[The Monkey]

^that there is a win, folks.

[spritzer]

Any notion that caps need to charge for 250hours, drivers need to flex or some such can be filed away with people claiming Stax phones can be damaged by playing them while not on the head i.e. complete lack of understanding of what is truly going on inside the gear.

As for the link you posted, there was probably a good reason why the amp was chewing and spitting out tubes. Same deal with the SP ES amps.

Now I for one don't doubt that there is a perceived difference but there can be a range of causes. Fluctuating line voltages, different operational temperatures (warmup is a very real phenomenon) or just simply a better understanding of how the system sounds. Another option would be the multitude of crap designs out there which drift like mad or show some other non linear traits which are hard to account for. There is also the whole issue of wanting to believe it is better due to cost, peer pressure etc. which would translate into wishful thinking.

[atothex]

I'd just like to say right here that kwkarth's avatar is fucking creepy. I really don't like looking at it.

[agile_one]

I could rant all day about that but instead I just make a killer loaf which people come from all over Reykjavik to buy. Hell people come from NJ to buy my pastries...

Must have loaves ... where is web page to order?

[Sherwood]

Must have loaves ... where is web page to order?

Be warned, it's not cheap.

[spritzer]

There are direct flights from Orlando...

[Sherwood]

Ah, well, by all means then.

[NapalmK]

I'd love to hear how this compares with the dynalo and M^3 and it's synergy with with AD2000s and W1000s. There's a little too much hype on HF at the moment and not enough info. This will be my 1st (well after the EF2 and uDac) good amp and I don't want to get caught in a FOTM trend.

[boomana]

I'm not quite sure anyone here has those headphones, and wasn't/isn't the uDac the biggest FOTM around?

[Sherwood]

It's good. So is the dynalo. So is the M^3. I don't think there's a "best", necessarily, so get one of the three and use it until you get the other two (as you and I know you eventually will).

[Yikes]

I'm not quite sure anyone here has those headphones, and wasn't/isn't the uDac the biggest FOTM around?

It was/is, but that doesn't mean that it's not a worthwhile product. I bought one, it's not bad. It's small and easily packed to travel with a laptop. It doesn't take the place of a serious amp or DAC but for $99 it's a nice little bundle of utility.

It was a perfect recommendation for my Brother. He bought one, liked it and bought another for his girlfriend. So I've been directly responsible for 3 of them being sold. Honestly, for casual listening it's more than acceptable. I'm using it on my computer rig at the moment while waiting for my Music Hall 25.2 to be modified by Exemplar Audio. Although the idiots claiming it drives HD-800's well are...well..... Idiots.

[NapalmK]

I'm not quite sure anyone here has those headphones, and wasn't/isn't the uDac the biggest FOTM around?

Yeah it is/was. I got it for the reasons that Yikes mentioned. Mainly so I can take some sort of amplification with me when I go to the library to study. It's not anything magical but it gets the job done.

It's good. So is the dynalo. So is the M^3. I don't think there's a "best", necessarily, so get one of the three and use it until you get the other two (as you and I know you eventually will).

Lol. I probably will. I've been looking at the dynalo and M^3 for a while so I'll probably go that route at least until the Asgard cools off. Any other suggestions for sub $300 amps would be great too if you feel I've missed an important one.

[atothex]

Coincidentally, I have AD2000 and M3, but I think a more appropriate comparison would be to a CKKIII, right? Fully discrete, no feedback and such. Umm... that right there would be the limit of my tech knowledge, so maybe they have nothing common other than those features.

Anyways, it seems y'all only pretend to worry about FOTM-ness but just go ahead and buy them things anyways. So yeah. Just do it.

[Beefy]

Coincidentally, I have AD2000 and M3, but I think a more appropriate comparison would be to a CKKIII, right? Fully discrete, no feedback and such. Umm... that right there would be the limit of my tech knowledge, so maybe they have nothing common other than those features.

I can't see any perfect comparison to the usual DIY gear. Yes to the CKKIII since it is discrete with no global feedback....... but the CKKIII is a push-pull BJT running a fairly low quiescent current, whereas the Asgard is singled ended MOSFETs running massive amounts of current.

[NapalmK]

Coincidentally, I have AD2000 and M3, but I think a more appropriate comparison would be to a CKKIII, right? Fully discrete, no feedback and such. Umm... that right there would be the limit of my tech knowledge, so maybe they have nothing common other than those features.

Anyways, it seems y'all only pretend to worry about FOTM-ness but just go ahead and buy them things anyways. So yeah. Just do it.

How do you like that combo?

Not sure I'm one of the "y'all", at least the FOTM cults part. I don't think I've purchased anything based on FOTM trends. Most of my buying is based on the deals I can find. Hence, why I have an AD2000 and W1000. I'm a cheapskate. I got those for on the recent MF deal and am realizing my current setup isn't quite cutting it.

Anyway, I'm going to get a Dynalo (or G lite) or M^3. Then if I'm still curious and have enough money, I'll order an Asgard and do a comparison. The loser gets returned/sold.

[atothex]

You and Yikes with the uDAC? Nobody actually buys FOTM just to be trendy; people buy stuff to fill needs. These aren't clothes. I wonder how many people who buy FOTM stuff would actually admit it to themselves.

Anyways, the M3 + AD2000 is working pretty nice, surprisingly so. I attribute that mostly to the strength of my source, though. I have an Elpac M3, which is on the lower end of power supplies. Haven't gotten to compare it to anything, though.