eggil Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) The 2 50k resistors pads under the 2sa1486 is just one 50k crossed over to each side of the 50k pads, 2 of the silkscreened 50k's bridged across is a mistake? Edited May 22, 2014 by eggil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pororo Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 A short was my first thought... But the fuse didn't blow, so I thought the fets might be the problem. I'll have to take the bracket and heatsink off again, a major PITA. In retrospect I should have picked the onboard version for my first build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefQon Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Thanks eggil that's what my post was referring to when I first saw the pictures. Correct me if I'm wrong the onboard and offboard share the same parts and similar trace layout only difference is external mounting compared to the onboard heatsink mounting style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inu Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) 2SC1815 ECB 2SC2705 ECB 2SC4686A BCE 2SA1968 BCE Edited May 22, 2014 by Inu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwmclean Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Double check the data sheets. Confirm whether the pinout diagram is viewed from the top or from the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerry Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) You'll need to test your transistors. If they were in wrong or something around them was wrong there is a good chance they are blown. Edited May 22, 2014 by Kerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pororo Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 John, I double checked the datasheets and you're right top/bottom was misread and as Inu noted, 2sc2705 and 2SC1815 are both ECB. So these 2 were initailly in the correct orientation and I still had the problem. Thanks guys, I'll start testing transistors and resistors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Better yet, just get some of the Japanese models to begin with. You have probably done a lot of damage doing something wrong so the best bet would be to scrap all the small transistors. Also clean the flux on the output devices. It can short... Spritzer - On the latest rev 16 offboard amp silkscreen there is an extraneous "A" next to the cathode side of the upper right LED. You mean upper left? That is supposed to be there as the LED is part of the 2SA ccs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pororo Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 ^^^ Yeah, that's what I should have done from the beginning; getting the fets from Bdent instead of ordering everything from Mouser. I'll troubleshoot these later when I have time and just stuff 2 new boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Those are BJT's... I I doubt you've killed a resistor while doing this so simply swapping in all new transistors should clear it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pororo Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Ahh, good to know. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pororo Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) I'm trouble shooting some more on the amp board. Right now, all 4 LEDs are lit, and the balance is adjusted to zero. But the the offset is stuck at -41V. The pot is set to maximum resistance. Lowering the resistance gives slightly more negative offset like around -43V. So I tried increasing the value of the 2K resistor in series with the pot and it helps a small amount, maybe getting to around -38V then if I bump up the resistance above a certain threshold the offset climbs sky high to 452VDC! The heatsink is warm, but not hot. The PS is putting out +/- 455V and +/- 15V. Before I could even adjust the balance and offset though, I had problems with arcing and LOUD popping. Once there was a short underneath one of the 0.1uf 1000V caps and the other 3 or 4 times I assumed the solder joints of the outputs were shorting. I cleaned them all top and bottom and there is no trace of flux and no more arcing. My assumption is that the outputs were shorting because there was no apparent damage anywhere else and the arcing/popping stopped after cleaning the flux. I've got 1968A and 4686A installed. EDIT: I forgot to mention: the output current is set at 10mA with 100ohm resistors. Do you guys think one or more of the outputs are damaged? Any other ideas? Edited May 30, 2014 by Pororo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Do diode tests on the transistors, that's the only way to check while in the circuit. Other than that, just change them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pororo Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Thanks for the response Spritzer. Here's the results of the diode test. They're all good, right? 0.689 OL 0.607 OL OL 0.661 OL 0.625 OL 0.658 OL 0.623 OL 0.651 OL 0.620 OL 0.650 OL 0.618 OL 0.658 OL 0.619 OL 0.658 OL 0.618 0.688 OL 0.606 OL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Looks good, one thing to check though, is the pot dead. That has happened once to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) You need to check both probe orientations. 6 measurements per device. Edited May 30, 2014 by luvdunhill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pororo Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) You need to check both probe orientations. 6 measurements per device. Here's the C - E measurements: 2.04 OL OL OL OL OL OL OL OL OL OL OL OL OL 2.04 OL Are both 1968A bad? EDIT: I checked 4 new and uninstalled 1968A and they all measure OL OL for C-E... so I guess that means I've got 2 bad 1968A? Does it make sense that that would cause -41V offset that doesn't budge? The pot I checked before installing. It was centered so I put it at max resistance. I guess it's possible it failed under load or got zapped either directly or indirectly from the arcing. Edited May 30, 2014 by Pororo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted May 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 balance pot has to be set in the middle or bad things may happen. normally the pots are set to middle out of the box. its usually pretty hard to do diode checks in circuit and get reliable info if all the leds are lit it is working and maybe the one pot is shorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palchiu Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) Just finish my PSU, everything working fine but I've questions about measuring Bias voltage. There is measured 576V@Bias TP(570V before 4.7M resistor), but 380V@Bias out. (I use Mini PSU board) Is that working correctly? Thanks! Pal Edited May 31, 2014 by palchiu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pororo Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 balance pot has to be set in the middle or bad things may happen. normally the pots are set to middle out of the box. its usually pretty hard to do diode checks in circuit and get reliable info if all the leds are lit it is working and maybe the one pot is shorted Thanks Kevin. Now that I think about it, it seems unlikely that both 1968A would fail and give the same measurement. Yes, all 4 LEDs are still lit. I'll try swapping out the pot when I have time on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insanity Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 Just finish my PSU, everything working fine but I've questions about measuring Bias voltage. There is measured 576V@Bias TP(570V before 4.7M resistor), but 380V@Bias out. (I use Mini PSU board) Is that working correctly? Thanks! Pal This is normal, if you do not use a high impedance voltmeter. Thats what the TP is for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palchiu Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 This is normal, if you do not use a high impedance voltmeter. Thats what the TP is for. Hi insanity, Thank you for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pororo Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 balance pot has to be set in the middle or bad things may happen. normally the pots are set to middle out of the box. its usually pretty hard to do diode checks in circuit and get reliable info if all the leds are lit it is working and maybe the one pot is shorted I had some time, so I swapped the offset pot and the problem remains... -38VDC that doesn't budge. All 4 LEDs are still lit. Is the next step pulling the 1968A and testing them? Any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 First thing first, you had shorts so were all of them properly isolated and cleaned? All resistors measured out of the circuit (one end lifted up)? With a short you can even damage the PCB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pororo Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 Yes, all shorts isolated and cleaned. I have not measured any resistors out of circuit, except for the 2k one in series with the pot. There doesn't seem to be any damage to the topside of the PCB; haven't checked the bottom too closely due to the angle bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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