Review of 404LE - can't really find it

[JimP]

Sound: ...

Generally agree with your observations on 404LE. Not sure what source/amp you're using, but I'll add a few observations:

- source: macmini to picoDAC or miniDAC (gone) or PWD

- amp: KGSS or SRM600 or SRD7Pro/A205AmkII

- 404LE are 'fun' phones, really enjoy their presentation, especially the bass! they kind of remind me of the L3000 I had awhile ago, maybe even more 'fun' and more energy (whatever that means)

- 404LE don't seem to scale well with sources - sounds great from picoDAC/miniDAC to PWD (compared to K1000 on A205AmkII scales off the charts going to PWD!)

- they're not the giant killers I thought they were on initial listen - the K1000/A205AmkII/PWD leaves the 404LE in the dust - except low bass

- if the 404LE were my only phones, I would be happy - again fun and musical phones.

- 404LE sound great out of SRD7Pro + A205AmkII (I assume many other decent amps + energizer would work well)

- 404LE sound virtually same (to me) from KGSS or SRM600, ie they sound great! (my hunch is 404LE may be tolerant of amps as it is with source...but just wild guess)

So there you go, my very limited observations on 404LE, YMMV

(I think I'll try the 4070 next...eventually an O2)

[jp11801]

oddly I find the 404le pretty well resolving and it responded well in the change in amps from the eXStatA to the BH at the NYC meet.

If anything I would consider these to be more analytic than fun phones as there is no wooliness to the sound. Tonally they are drier than I'd like in a perfect world but are outstanding in the price they play in (under$700). They 4070 and O2 probably smack the shit out of them (I'll know in a week or so) but they should for a retail 3-4 times the 404le.

[JimP]

I should put huge caveat to my observations - these are the only stats I've ever heard! and I'm directly comparing them to K1000/A205AII/PWD. hope to do more long-term listening...regards

[JimP]

gratuitous sucky photo of 'test equipment'. 404LE on top, loving it with SRM600 or KGSS. (interesting history on KGSS according to seller, originally a rockhopper kgss, along the way converted to 220V, replaced broken attenuator to DACT, gained new shiny knobs, etc).

[forbigger]

nice.....did u bought the perfect wave @hk? if so how much you paid fr it? also fr 404le how much you paid fr it? i was offered hkd5.6k frm stax distributor. the last piece mingo have was sold......

[mypasswordis]

I've heard my share of 'stats, and my share of Lambdas (Lambda, Lambda Pro, Lambda Sig, SR-202, SR-404, now 404LE), and I agree that the 404LE is more fun than analytical, and more forgiving than revealing. I have not heard most of the expensive 'stats, though. And wow Jim, the first 'stat you have gets use of both a KGSS and SRM-600? Nice. So did you guys also observe this rubberiness to the sound? I think you're kind of getting at it with the dryness, JP#.

[Elephas]

My order of ranking is SR-Omega > 4070 > O2. People don't like the 4070s for various reasons, such as weight, closed backs, too bright, etc, but the reality is not that many people have even heard them, and even fewer have heard them side by side by side with the two Omegas on an amp good enough to drive them all well.

Wha? 4070 > O2? Is this allowed? Is it Stax Mafia approved?

How about the HE60, HE90 and Jade?

For me, it is O2 > SR-Omega > Airbow SR-SC1 > 4070

For some weird reason, I don't really like the 4070, it is probably my least favorite electrostatic. It is technically superb and maybe the most neutral, but I think it's kind of bland, tasteless and uninvolving.

[HeadphoneAddict]

I enjoyed the SR-404LE more than my other Lambdas, and found them to be less etched and a little darker sounding like my O2. They reminded me a little of an electrostatic HD600. But in comparison to my O2 Mk1 the 404LE just didn't sound as good. So with as much as I listen to the O2 and HE60, I sold the 404LE in the first month I had them to help pay for my WES amp upgrade. I don't regret selling it to help buy the WES, but I still do miss the 404LE.

[mypasswordis]

I really wanted to like the 404LE as the end-all Lambda but I'm just not digging it. =/ I'm fine with extra bass (which, btw, there is no real hump, the frequency response is just tilted toward the bass) but the rubbery coloration and the lack of treble is bugging me. Instruments just don't quite sound real, they sound as if they were made of rubber. Right now I think I prefer the SR-Lambda, L Pro, and L Sig to it, in terms of Lambdas. And probably the SR-404 actually, but that's going off a vague memory. Also going off vague memory, I might prefer the HD580/600. I've never heard anything that resembled "etch" so maybe I just like treble. I'll reserve final judgment for... a few days from now, actually, but I doubt my opinion will suddenly change.

[HeadphoneAddict]

I really wanted to like the 404LE as the end-all Lambda but I'm just not digging it. =/ I'm fine with extra bass (which, btw, there is no real hump, the frequency response is just tilted toward the bass) but the rubbery coloration and the lack of treble is bugging me. Instruments just don't quite sound real, they sound as if they were made of rubber. Right now I think I prefer the SR-Lambda, L Pro, and L Sig to it, in terms of Lambdas. And probably the SR-404 actually, but that's going off a vague memory. Also going off vague memory, I might prefer the HD580/600. I've never heard anything that resembled "etch" so maybe I just like treble. I'll reserve final judgment for... a few days from now, actually, but I doubt my opinion will suddenly change.

The SR404LE sounded better on the eXStatA and SRM-717 than my GES, otherwise it was a little too dark. I would guess that it would also sound good on the SRM-1 Mk2 Pro. It does respond to a change in amp and source. It's easy to drive loud, but needs the right combo to sound right. In the end, even though I recently had a chance to buy back my 404LE, I like the O2 a good bit better.

[JimP]

nice.....did u bought the perfect wave @hk? if so how much you paid fr it? also fr 404le how much you paid fr it? i was offered hkd5.6k frm stax distributor. the last piece mingo have was sold......

404LE - mingo at hkd 4.9k

PWD - several places tried to charge me more than list, piss me off, found a place that gave me a small discount

[JimP]

some more observations on continued listen:

- it is very resolving of detail, spatial information, distinct instrument layers etc, tapered at top (no shimmering highs here) and tight bass all the way down! but it is a 'fun' phone like a HF-2 is a 'fun' phone - I dub it my boogie 'phones, just awesome with live Phish/GD etc (but really all-purpose, enjoying jazz, classical, opera, etc)

- I disagree HD580/600 is better than 404LE - I can see the vague sonic resemblance, but the 404LE womps the Senns (I have a hardwired HD580 that I'm directly comparing to)

- 'rubbery' sound - not sure what you mean. If you mean dark, yes, 404LE is a tad dark

- one correction to earlier comment, 404LE does scale nicely (with PWD, playing with different settings, filters, etc) - perhaps not as initially evident as K1000 system, but quite nice

This sounds crazy, but if you put gun to my head to pick one - at this moment, I would probably pick the 404LE/SRM600 or KGSS over K1000 system (K1000 is much, much better from audiophile perspective, but the 404LE presentation is musically just right - for me)

[forbigger]

404LE - mingo at hkd 4.9k

PWD - several places tried to charge me more than list, piss me off, found a place that gave me a small discount

was quoted 5600 from stax distributor which translate to like usd25 more than elusive disc and that excl shipping charge (around $20), i dont know if should pull trigger or not. mingo have no idea when the new stock going to come in. perhaps never according to them.

for the dac, the small discount based from price list? CONUS price list? thanks

[JimP]

for the dac, the small discount based from price list? CONUS price list? thanks

from conus list price...

[mypasswordis]

I like this back and forth, it's a lot better than talking to a wall.

it is very resolving of detail, spatial information, distinct instrument layers etc, tapered at top (no shimmering highs here) and tight bass all the way down! but it is a 'fun' phone like a HF-2 is a 'fun' phone - I dub it my boogie 'phones, just awesome with live Phish/GD etc (but really all-purpose, enjoying jazz, classical, opera, etc)

I wouldn't say tight, per se, but I would say all the way down. It has great bass extension and that little low bass hump is nice. Not really noticing the spatial information or resolving qualities... definitely notice lack of shimmer. It's making listening to any jazz/classical a bit of a pain in the arse for me. And rock/metal actually. So pretty much everything I listen to. =/

This is just a guess but I think the rubbery coloration is coming from the not quite tight bass, in combination with possibly some small peak somewhere in the upper midrange or lower treble, in combination with the recessed (rest of the ?) treble. It is very apparent to me with kick drums and bass lines in general, maybe you can try listening for that? And of course, I don't have a HD580 or HD600 with me so I can't directly compare so I might indeed prefer the 404LE. I'll find out this weekend.

Edit: Also amplification could be a factor, since I'm just using a SRM-1 Mk2. But I know it doesn't have the weird coloration I'm hearing.

[forbigger]

Pull a trigger on 404LE......now its on my ears now. So far loving it. All I can say now after brief listening, its mid end stats with reasonable bass. Unlike ESP950 where the bass can be considered weak, 404LE comes with more than enough quantity and quality of bass but the impact still not up to par yet.

Some of comments here said that its relatively dark, IMHO its actually because of the mid that is not as forward as ESP950 or combination of it. Sound signature can be considered somewhat Grado like to but of course with stats traits.

[mypasswordis]

No, when I say dark I mean lacking in treble. I'd say the mids are the right amount of forward, hinging on recessed mainly because the overtones from the treble aren't present enough. Glad you like it more than the ESP950. I doubt there are many 'stats that have more bass impact though, as the 404LE has a nice thump going, except it's made out of rubber.

[forbigger]

justin - this is a nice complement to 950. And I have theory that this plus 950 should translate to Omega.........even though I havent actually heard Omega before.

One more thing, 404LE is much more sensitive to interference than 950. I had this baby humming when I rest my palm on the notebook palm rest. After a quite exhausting investigation, I separated the electrical outlet of the notebook with the amp, the humming disappeared.

[mypasswordis]

Do you mean O2 or SR-Omega? I haven't heard the SR-Omega but I guess it could translate to O2 yeah, minus the funky coloration. Hopefully moar power for the O2 makes the sound less smooth and loose, and gives it some impact. And treble. Wait no, that's just my fantasy for the ideal headphone.

[forbigger]

should be O2......btw, I drive this and 950 from KGSS so my experience may slightly differ from yours

[Deadneddz]

Hopefully moar power for the O2 makes the sound less smooth and loose, and gives it some impact. And treble. Wait no, that's just my fantasy for the ideal headphone.

Nope, thats just a well driven, well fitted Qualia 010.

[mypasswordis]

Fffffuuuuuu I better keep away from hearing any Qualias then! Shouldn't be a problem since they're super rare and prices are only going to go up.

I'm happy with what I have, I'm happy with what I have, I'm happy with what I have.......

[manaox2]

Nope, thats just a well driven, well fitted Qualia 010.

Sounds about right. I miss the Qualia after Florida, don't tell my O2.

[Asr]

Fffffuuuuuu I better keep away from hearing any Qualias then! Shouldn't be a problem since they're super rare and prices are only going to go up.

I'm happy with what I have, I'm happy with what I have, I'm happy with what I have.......

Sounds about right. I miss the Qualia after Florida, don't tell my O2.

Next up, an HC Qualia 010 Loaner Program.

[forbigger]

been putting like 15 hours listening. one thing that someone here point out which also quite true is that this headphone tolerate crappy recording/ripping better than 950. I also agree with JimP that its a very musical headphone. But for neutrality I would still put my money at 950. Will try to post impression up to 7th day of using it