Assemblage 2.6/2.7 and Icarium rants

[Icarium]

Yeah it's something I've struggled with a lot. Defensiveness. How much it annoys and frustrates me and here's my thoughts with regards to that.

Why do people get defensive? It's because they think I am attacking them or think they are stupid or whatever. They are conditioned to think that when they offer up something of themselves that the world is probably going to drop a hammer on them and so they come out fighting and ready to do it. I don't think they really want to, but it's something they feel they need to do to survive. That's why when you try and take away judgment from your feedback but instead offer sincerity and exude a willingness to help with little to no vested interest it just confuses them sometime.

That is fucking sad and a huge indictment to me of how human society is right now. Why do I have to qualify everything I say? Why do I have to explain that if I don't like something it's not that I don't like people who don't like something, don't think less of people who do like that something and that what I say is personal opinion and nothing else nothing more. I have to do this way too much and its necessary because otherwise I'm going to get misunderstood. Why do I have to spend so much time thinking about how someone will react to something I say and who I might offend before I say it? After all that is something I say really what I feel or what I believe?

And look to the converse of all this behavior. Why do I have to feel so shitty about myself when people make fun of something I say or give me feedback in the cruelest manner possible? If I do feel shitty about that (And I mostly think that some of us do at one point in time) then is it so surprising that I learn to become defensive? Is it so surprising that I find that things I say are super ingrained into me because I've had to defend them so much? This is just so counterproductive.

An idea is an idea and an opinion is opinion. There are more valid ideas/opinions then others. Some are definitely more right then others. Just because you have a different idea from someone else doesn't mean you are stupid or even the other party is stupid. Maybe one or both of you just have incomplete information. Do you really think that maybe the other party didn't have a piece of information that you have or vice versa that maybe you guys can't achieve some commonality? Does the best outcome really have to be that you guys walk away agreeing to not disagree and maybe even not thinking less of the other party? Or maybe you win the other party to your side through skill in delivery and maybe yelling him/her down.

Yes people do these things. We all do. I do it. Yelling at someone and implying they are stupid and crazy for not agreeing with you. Why? Because it fucking works and will cut through the time/effort to really explain something to someone, because yes for some people you need to do it in terms they can understand and this takes time. But in the long term which is a more valuable route to take? Imo, taking the time and making a serious effort at educating the other party. It may be thankless and it may be pointless, but it is my belief that if the other party has genuine interest an an open mind then no matter how "stupid" they are I have been able to get them to understand. They just have to want to. And even if shouting down some closeminded fool will get them to kowtow... I don't know if that's valuable to me because I doubt they really do understand and if anything it's only going to make them feel bad about themselves on some level and yes fucking defensive going forward.

Another route is dumbing things down. My usual example here is stereotyping. Stereotyping gets a bad rap. It really does. And me just expressing that in public will probably get me some vile glares. Why? It's how humans thing. They base their predictions/expectations of their next experience of something on prior experience/data. This is true for groups of people, for concepts, for music for everything. This is simply how humans think and its natural and normal. Maybe you want to call it something different from stereotyping, but that's really all it is.

The problem isn't that humans stereotype. In fact trying to get them to not to I think is just counter productive and will never really happen and frankly I'm not sure that it's something I don't want to do. Let's think about what would happen if people didn't stereotype and gave everything a blank state. Well it would take them forever to form an opinion on anything. Humans would get mired into things and probably die off. You can't give everything a blank slate. It's just not scalable and I don't see how it will ever be scalable.

So what's up with white supremacists then you say? Or other hate groups? The people that give stereotyping a bad name. Well, this is simple. They are doing it wrong. They are doing it wrong! Stereotyping isn't where you draw core beliefs from. It's only the first stage in your thought pipeline. That's how it should be.

Example: If a guy has only had bad experiences with black people and been fucked over by everyone he has met. I think it's perfectly valid for him to expect that next black person he meets very well may fuck him over. This is an acceptable and understandable situation to me. However, if he does meet a great and nice black person then first of all he does not apply his stereotype to that person and he also modifies his stereotype to: "Most black people are probably gonna fuck me over but there are some nice ones" and probably adjust how his expectations accordingly.

After he meets enough cool black dudes then maybe that stereotype will turn into "Black people are just people so some are bad some are not bad." You overwrite/modify until you get to this point. Is this so bad? Is he a bad person for once fearing/disliking black people? I don't think so. You are a product of your past experiences and to call that invalid and valueless is selling your own experiences short. Don't do that imo.

And let's look at how a white supremacist approaches dealing with black people. It'll be more like "I hate black people" and he meets a cool great black person and does he overwrite? Nope, he doesn't even really believe there are cool black people because that stereotype is an unshakable/unmodifiable core belief and that is stupid.

So what do you think? Do you think the route we are going is going to lead to good white/black US race relations? I don't think so. I think telling kids that stereotyping is wrong and all people are equal is only anchoring race relations in shit. It's dumbing things down to a basic and fundamentally flawed level in a shitty attempt at trying to fix something because you think that's all kids/people can handle. Well, frankly it's not working. Studies show that people when in groups of their own kind are still pretty racist. If anything having grown up being fed this garbage I am only extra angry because it's pretty fucking apparent that all people are not all equal. Sure they all have a right not to be stabbed or tortured and are equal in that sense, but people are NOT equal so I don't know why I was told this over and over growing up.

Anyway I think society should advocate proper use of stereotyping and I think that would make humans better because frankly if you aren't worry about being political correct and stereotypical thinking in general is very fast. That's the point. You optimize your thought pipeline and you'll be able to simply think faster. Just overwrite/modify and progress and don't worry so much about being wrong. Just worry about if you are getting to the point where you can be right more often.

[Icarium]

I mean there were a ton of sources there that I'm not that familiar with. Other then the Parasound which I had just gotten I doubt I'd spent more then like 10 minutes collectively with the 2-3 sources that I have had some experience with and then there were 3-4 that I had not heard of ever at all.

So I guess this is how I go about it. If I listen to 10 sources and they all sound the same I try and figure out what elements sound the same and then stop listening for those areas of sound and then focus more on the stuff that is different. This sounds hard, but I don't do it consciously but instead use intuition. I especially am very sensitive to inconsistency (Whether that is trained or innate I have no idea) so it is not hard for me and frankly I don't think it hard for most people. Most people can intuit what is out of place very, very fast.

The critical next step is reflecting on what your intuition is telling you and consciously figuring out the differences. So you can sense that something is different. Think hard.. how are they different? Again use your intuition, follow it and reflect consciously afterwards.

Maybe you try to do this already and it hasn't worked out. What helped for me was screening out my feelings of awe and this sounds good. Everything does sound pretty good to me. It really does. So I take a few seconds initially to note that and then I shut it out of my mind. Almost shut down my conscious mind and just intuit difference and then go into conscious mind overdrive and repeat.

I may be just faking it and fooling myself though.

Oh yeah and another thing is sometimes you gotta do it several times. Do this process and then throw away everything including what you've just figured out and then try and do it again without bias from the previous attempt. Cut yourself 0 slack in trying to cut out bias and constantly doubt that you did cut it out and generally you actually end up pretty close to being unbiased. And then you see if your previous attempt matches with your next attempt. Again this sounds hard, but with practice it's definitely possible. Just ignore all the bias voices that are telling you to think one way or another. And then after trying that a bit maybe throw everything out and then listen to what your intuition tells you. Is this awesome? Is this the best? Do you even like it? Do you think its worth the money? And if the answer to all those is yes.

Think about what you like about it. What areas does it seem to do well in blah blah.

Usually then I write a review in my head so formalize what I like about it and think about how to express stuff to other people. This really seals the deal for me.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Icarium

[The Monkey]

^People don't like admitting they're wrong?

Or feel foolish, having spent over the odds?

Or define themselves by their purchases? so by attacking their purchasing decisions , they feel you are attacking them?

IMHO, YMMV

Obviously all of those things are at work. But I think there is a deeper issue for these people. By acknowledging a bias, they are forced to acknowledge that they are not always 100% consciously in control of their thoughts and actions. I think that scares them.

EDIT: DanC, Deepak...you guys need to get SkipJacks.

[Icarium]

Yeah I dunno why people think that. I'm pretty rational and I value rational behavior but I'm not even going to pretend that my conscious mind is in control even like 1 percent of the time. When you walk are your legs consciously being told what to do? When you pass people by in the halls and you look away or you recognize someone and say hi were those all completely conscious decisions?

I doubt I make any fully conscious decisions. Why did I chose to grab what I grabbed at lunch? My mind can sometimes play catch up after the fact, but if I brought conscious decision making into play then people behind me in lines would be pretty annoyed for good reason.

So I don't know why people think that.

[deepak]

Obviously all of those things are at work. But I think there is a deeper issue for these people. By acknowledging a bias, they are forced to acknowledge that they are not always 100% consciously in control of their thoughts and actions. I think that scares them.

EDIT: DanC, Deepak...you guys need to get SkipJacks.

Dinny I'd love one if they were cheaper. At the end of the day this is still something I enjoy for fun so I do not utilize rigorous blind testing at every opportunity. If the Darwin source selector ends up working out then that might be a viable solution for myself.

I think blind testing is a lot more fun in groups as well and I'm lucky to have a crowd that likes to geek out about that sort of stuff (all being or having been in academic medicine).

[The Monkey]

If I still have the SkipJack by CJ, I'll bring it to Chicago. We could have some fun with it there. When I was in big pharma, we were all about the double-blind (except when it didn't suit us ).

[deepak]

(except when it didn't suit us ).

[dreamwhisper]

Yeah it's something I've struggled with a lot. Defensiveness. How much it annoys and frustrates me and here's my thoughts with regards to that.

Biologically the human brains last connections formed are to a cluster of neurons on your heart. This happens when you're 22.

So you have a culture that worships a youthful standard of beauty and perhaps also the emotional immaturity/sense of entitlement that goes with the age?

Who knows... I've seen 40 year olds that were less mature than 15 year olds, so there have got to be other factors as well such as how core beliefs are formed...

prejudice isn't where you draw core beliefs from. It's only the first stage in your thought pipeline. That's how it should be.

So in a society that controls its populace through fear, prejudice actually becomes the first stage in the pipeline.

And as our natural animal instincts are reprogrammed/replaced with irrational fears the need to transcend the imprisonment/repression is expressed through musical/artistic expression, youth rave culture (different forms of tribal gathering), sexual promiscuity, etc.

Not, however, to give the impression that any revolution would be calm and composed or even intellectualized...

I have a friend that went to Peru and lived with a shaman for 6 weeks, who learnt about the ancient healing arts of shamanism etc...

The shaman had learnt how to work within the mindstate induced by ayahuasca from a very young age.

When he was 8 or 10 he went into the woods and lived alone under the influence of the drug daily and survived on his own for months at a time.

The result: now when with someone who is under the influence of the same drug, he has an uncanny understanding of the mindstate as well as the ability to manipulate the mindstate to the point where it borders on the metaphysical or magic.

Or course everyone observing these events are under the influence of a psychoactive drug, so claims of any such powers would be unsubstantiated in a scientific model until a more controlled experiment could be performed.

Anyways, for the people involved it is very real etc etc, (get to the point man!)

and my point is that even though the shaman is considered a special person with special powers (in their tribe as well as by north american native american elders/other spiritual leaders) he lived the most savage/animalistic lifestyle of anyone in the tribe.

So even though we as humans both have elements of animal and elements of evolved humanoid (divine humanoid),

I think that just how effective fear has been to limit us to our lowest common denominator (de-evolution to animal savagery) it can similarly elevate to our highest abilities of compassion, invention/prodigy and all other qualities we have been programmed to believe are limited to us either because of our class, creed, or through the casualties of day-to-day causality.

Anyways, now that I've made my point I can continue with my buddy's story.

He was being setup for an arranged marriage with one 12 year old girl in the tribe (he was 18 at the time).

And since he didn't want to go through with it and thought they would kill him if he didn't he ran away fearing for his life...

Dreamwhisper - I'm still keen for you to post an image of the inside of your 2.7

I will post an image of mine;

If you look at the three ic's top right you will see what looks like an aftermarket mod on one of the chips, where two legs have been linked.

I would be keen to know if yours has the same...

Yup it does, I'll take some pics shortly.

[Icarium]

Hrm interesting. My thought process is more people are into entitlement and youthful beauty above all other forms of beauty because society has told them they want those things. Have movies and tv shows and all sorts of media in other forms of medium that show people wanting young hot chick and valuing young hot chicks highly. Generally movies will have the female lead/love interest be a young hot chick (There are exceptions, but those are much in the minority. If you want talk about how quality/impact then it becomes slightly more even, but even then ;p A lot of people watch shitty movies and enjoy them) and movies often symbolize on some level the ideal. So you see the main character that you may identify with and then you see his love interest who is into him and she is young hot awesome and interesting.

Well looks is something that you notice and recognize first with regards to attraction. Appreciation for talent/smarts/drive/passion/everything else comes later (In most cases). And first impressions and first impact is generally huge on people. It becomes that which lets you remember that person. Maybe you meet a hot chick named Jane. In your mind it's probably something like Jane - Hot Chick. Eventually it might turn into Jane - Cool Hot Chick, but I think on some level hot chick is always gonna be in there and it was there first so it's almost slightly more core to you when you think of her. Time may change this of course so that it's all about how cool she is rather than how hot. But in a movie where you get only a reader's digest of events no matter how cool the main character is you may never get past the Main Character - Hot Chick stage and your brain may not seize so hard on the other desirable characteristics at least not if you aren't actively trying.

For me I screen out hotness. (Much like in audio I screen out the parts where sound is similar in two dacs). I know it's a movie I know that the chicks esp the main chicks probably are going to be hot and that really doesn't affect my life much (Am I going to meet one and have a shot at one? Probably not) so I look for other characteristics that define and intrigue me about the character. Maybe she's really nice and understanding. Maybe she is straight forward in a way that I like. Maybe she's brilliant. And it's from this that I figure out what my ideal chick is. Qualities that she possesses besides hotness. And I don't think I'm necessarily special because I do this. I think anyone that is a good enough human to move past the "Har har I want to get with a harem of hot jailbait and that's all I want in women" state does this to some degree if at an unconscious level or at a conscious level.

I am a big fan of doing it at the conscious level though because I find that I'm able to do it more effectively and it will get me faster to what I want to figure out. I.e. what my ideal woman should be like. Also you have to figure out what's impossible what's possible and what qualities are mutually exclusive and how rare a quality is as well. These are things you have to do while you are putting together that package of qualities because you have to tier it somewhat. Qualities A/B/C are pretty great and definitely good enough for me to want and women with these qualities are largely available. But Qualities A/B/C/D would be even better. D is pretty goddamn rare and it's very likely I might not find it even if I look my hardest... but is it something I really want? Or is A/B/C + not being lonely and having companionship and sex worth sacrificing D?

Anyway tangent aside ;p Entitlement. Well people are told things like all people are equal.. all people have basic rights... all people deserve this or that. Is it that surprising that people have that sense of entitlement? It doesn't surprise me. It's part of the American Dream. All people do have some basic human rights imo, but do people who feel strongly about it even always know what those rights are? Or did they fudge together a list in their head based on what they think should be basic rights and then go from there being entitled bastards? I think many have done this. It's the sense I get out of any overly entitled person I've ever met or encountered. All people deserve the right to dream and want cool shit, but they might have forgotten the other half of the American Dream and what it means to be American i.e. gots to work hard if you want it. That part isn't emphasized enough. Yes everyone has the right to pursue happiness. Pursue! Not just sit there and whine about and expect someone or something to hand it to and then be real sandy when it doesn't happen. That's not American or really even being a good human imo.

So the shaman story is definitely interesting though I'm not really getting what you are trying to tell me ;p Maybe think about it a bit and try again I am interested in hearing what you want to tell me First thoughts to that segment: All societies control with fear. It's almost the definition of a society. You deincentivize behaviors/desires and things that you (A society) don't want by making people afraid to want it and afraid to admit they want it for fear of being a weirdo or a freak or unnormal or a bad person. You shouldn't be selfish because that's bad. Guys shouldn't wear dresses because it would be weird (Well what if they want to wear a dress and aren't gay? Why not fucking let them and why make it so hard and make them feel bad while they do it?). This how societies deincentivize you from doing what it doesn't want you to do it. It incentivizes you to do certain things by hooking you up with women, money, a good job or other things when you do what it wants to do.

This isn't a bad thing really because society is necessary and a reality, but I think we should be ever examining and always improving on society by taking an honest look at what it does incentivize and deincentivize since I think there are things that are outdated and wrong and all societies can improve and progress and learn from each other. We just have to try and if we don't well I don't see how we will improve as a species. And we do try.. in our own fumbling politically correct way. Progress is made, but I think it can be better and faster

Yeah crazy shit can happen on psychotropic drugs.

[dreamwhisper]

Yeah, just letting loose on a rant about something that's interested me for a while.

One edit I would've made about my main point is to indicate that the concept of fear is the only available motivation I see for revolution.

Humans are lazy by nature imo.

A good quote from the movie 'Waking Life': "What is the more universal human characteristic... fear or lazyness?"

I think that they are equally universal, but also that it is possible that we can work them against each other, however, this would most likely be in the aftermath of a cataclysmic event. (natural disaster, meteorite, war)

I agree that progress can be made faster and quicker.

An interesting idea I heard recently is what if there was a united human interest in space travel? Ok, that sounds a little vague...

More like, what if youth were more encouraged to study it and governments were for pooling their resources to make it a reality?

What if we knew from a young age that life was possible not only on this earth; what if we as humans claimed our birthright in the stars?

An interesting perspective on human nature, taken from this video:

LaRouchePAC

Similarly, what if music had an integral part in international politics, the politicians themselves being musicians having studied music for years to gain mastery over their instrument, (having a practical understanding of working for the American Dream) and were able to communicate/improvise with other politicians?

Of course this really isn't limited to the American Dream exclusively but also extends to other nationalities, and so this actually isn't the American Dream we're talking about at all, but more like first-hand knowledge of hard work and sacrifices made for something larger than yourself.

This is really what a politician of all people needs the most.

Music because it is a universal language, but also, as the philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer says, the only art that does merely copy ideas, but actually embodies the will to life itself.

Improvisational music in particular because when music is improvised in the moment it is the truest representation of the musician's intent in that moment, that intention being expressed through the music made. (people who aren't calm and composed don't play in time/in tune for example)

Not that they will play music instead of communicating with words, but rather that they will do both.

And Through playing music with eachother they will likely gain an appreciation for the infinite creative beings that they are/we all are.

Eventually musicians/politicians would find that the music they make/discussions they have really just sound/work the best when everyone agrees.

And hey, as a side-benefit for audiophiles there would be a definite resurgence in the invention of new AD/DA conversion technology.

These performances/meetings would have to be recorded somehow lol

For me I screen out hotness.

Yeah I do too. Although for a while I stopped screening it out in music school because I figured hey, everyone who is a musician has got to be down to earth and a genuinely nice human being.

Not true, as music schools have their share of prima donnas, and I unfortunately had to flirt with one and ultimately anger their dark side. :/

(Hopefully, after a few years of studying music seriously and having to make sacrifices to do so their outlook will change. This isn't entirely unrealistic considering the work that goes into being an improv musician; the 'heavy' musicians practice as much as a student in medical school studies)

Yeah, I used to even think hotness was inversely proportional to personality, and so I would actually pay less attention to girls that were attractive.

But this was back when I had teenage insecurities though, so I don't still consciously exercise it. (I have different insecurities now - about career choices lol)

Funny enough, the snap judgment that was made back then did happen to hold true 9 times out of 10 imo.

I think it becomes different as people get older, because there are more opportunities for someone to mature as a person/define themselves as a person unrelated to what others perceive their superficial value to be.

But also the world that was once very small opens up to a much larger world. (just how large is of course up to the imagination)

And so our criteria often changes to place more emphasis on personality, career choice, passion/vision, etc

I brought up that last bit about the imagination to relate to the idea of humans taking their place in the stars,

and although I wouldn't consider it altogether incorrect to relate the statement to psychoactive drugs, I personally don't believe that the use of psychoactive drugs alone would lead to any lasting changes in human nature. (and my buddy who went to Peru would likely agree)

[dreamwhisper]

I like hearing gear and then not listening to it for a few days and then going back and hearing it again.

[morphsci]

^^^ This over a time period of months is generally what I find necessary to be able to judge how a new piece of gear fits into the system.

[Icarium]

I like listening to something with all my preconceptions thrown out and asking myself if I like it or not for a baseline. And yeah then checking in on that after breaks. Take mood and time/place out of the equation.

[regal]

Can I ask if anyone has compared the PMD100 vs PMD200, my understanding was Assemblage offered an upgrade board that made this comparison possible. I have read the one comparison on the web but I'm still not convinced that a first gen DSP sounds better than the SIC PMD100? I've seen PMD200's go for $500 so the OP got one heck of a deal.

[zertohero]

Can I ask if anyone has compared the PMD100 vs PMD200, my understanding was Assemblage offered an upgrade board that made this comparison possible. I have read the one comparison on the web but I'm still not convinced that a first gen DSP sounds better than the SIC PMD100? I've seen PMD200's go for $500 so the OP got one heck of a deal.

Sorry - I haven't personally done the comparison myself but I know Filburt and Icarium spent some time comparing the 3.1 (pmd200) and the 3.0 (pmd100) to listen for differences.

There seems to be a few differing opinions on this - some say hardly any difference and some say huge difference - Without having two completely identical dacs with the only difference being the pmd chip its hard to say. If you could find that upgrade board you are talking about that would be ideal. Have you tried asking Parts Connection if it existed because i haven't heard of it?

[dreamwhisper]

I've seen PMD200's go for $500 so the OP got one heck of a deal.

A link to a seller in China selling pmd200's:

PMD200

$42.50 USD each + shipping.

You have to be able to speak Chinese though to navigate that site though. (Google Translator can only take you so far)

Also,

"Note : PMD200 need to register the software write operation can work correctly. Legend PMD200 have a hardware approach, but not tested , please carefully .

A0 version information available , non- online version 0.6 error"

It looks like the PMD200 might need to be configured before being mounted onto a board.

I was in touch with a board builder on diyaudio.org and he was interested in ordering a few, but I would have to take the risk. (since I have the connection to the person in China)

...And I'm not sure I want to take the risk.

A pity that he didn't even comment on my entirely un-researched idea of throwing one in a Buffalo32

[Pars]

Some possibly good info here:

DIYHiFi.org • View topic - PMD200 vs PMD100

[zertohero]

and some more info here;

Listening Comparison Of Digital Audio Filters

[deepak]

Some possibly good info here:

DIYHiFi.org • View topic - PMD200 vs PMD100

"I listen to the Grateful Dead, Joni Mitchell almost exclusively"

That must be what they call Hell

[Pars]

"I listen to the Grateful Dead, Joni Mitchell almost exclusively"

That must be what they call Hell

Yeah, he wasn't one of the ones I was paying attention to, but I'd have to agree.

"I can hear so much air around Pigpen <gasp>"

[deepak]

Heh Charles really isn't a fan of the Pacific Microsonics. I can't blame him with HDCD doing basically nothing unless used in a very specific implementation (which almost no mastering engineer used).

[HDen]

IC: Assemblage DAC 2.7 - Head-Fi.org Community

[luvdunhill]

IC: Assemblage DAC 2.7 - Head-Fi.org Community

[The Monkey]

The DAC has been modded. Don't have the full details and am not in a position to open it up to take a look. I do know that the DAC was bought as a standard unit.

wtf?

[Voltron]

"PM me with offers." Double cunty. :palm: