Looking for digital SLR recommendations

[Salt Peanuts]

I've been wanting to dive into the realm of digital SLR for a while now and with our trusty point-and-shoot getting bit long in the tooth/temperamental (along with wanting to have a decent camera before the baby arrives), I figured this is as good a time as any to do it. For the budget, I'd like to keep it at/around $1K. I'd appreciate any recommendations/suggestions. Thanks.

[grawk]

do you have a camera already? if so, what brand?

[Salt Peanuts]

Nope, I don't have a SLR right now. FWIW, all of my digital point & shoot has been Canons.

[grawk]

Ok, well, I really like my konica-minolta, and the new sony that is derived from it looks like a good setup. But really, any of the SLRs from the real camera makers (canon, nikon, olympus, pentax, sony) are stellar anymore, so it's more about picking a brand, and finding ergonomics that work for you.

[oogabooga]

I've used a Nikon and a Canon, and I currently own a Nikon D300 which I love. My first recommendation would be to use the same system as the friends you might go shooting with, so you can swap lenses, flashes, etc. After that, I feel that Canon has a wider selection of lenses in the "mid-fi" area (more f/4 glass than Nikon). Also, I might be tempted to spend less money on your first SLR body, so that you can spend some money on a flash and a second lens. Bodies become obsolete quickly but flashes and lenses hold their value (and use) longer.

I owned one of the earlier Sony alpha cameras for a week. I was not impressed (it had a loud shutter release) and felt their selection of new lenses was thin at the time. Not sure what it's like now (that was 2 years ago). I can say that I really liked VR (when I had some VR lenses - now I just use f/2.8 glass ), so if Sony's are still coming with in-camera vibration reduction, that's a definite pro for the Sony's. Nikon/Canon keep their VR tech inside the lenses - they claim it can handle more vibration but it adds a cost to each lens.

As grawk says ergonomics play a role - my first camera (a D40) was too small for my meathooks, and nowadays I can only really use the D300 when my battery pack is attached - otherwise the feel is just wrong. I'd suggest borrowing a friends for a day or finding a place with an exchange policy.

BTW, if you're doing any indoor shooting (or anything with a 'close' subject), I can't tell you how much I appreciate having a dedicated flash that I can bounce off the ceiling, use a diffuser on, etc. My wedding/event photos that people like most always used the flash in a way that the on-body flash can't hack. I'd definitely save some of that $1000 for a flash.

[agile_one]

I'm a Nikon shooter, but since you've used and are (presumably) happy with Canon from p&s days, you are in luck, because Canon has just announced the Rebel T2i (aka 550D in Europe). By all reports, it should be a great camera because it brings many advanced features from Canon's pro and prosumer models down market. List price is $899. for body + 18-55 IS (Image Stabilized) lens kit. Available in March, so you'll need a bit of patience.

Gizmodo article that includes Canon press release.

DPReview preview.

Amazon pre-oredrs.

[Salt Peanuts]

Minor correction - we do in fact have couple of lenses from wife's Canon EOS 3 she hasn't used in years (EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS and EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS). I guess this means I'll be looking at Canons at this point.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Salt Peanuts

[Knuckledragger]

If you're going to get a Canon body, I can't stress enough that you check out the X0D "prosumer" line vs the Rebel series. The X0Ds have a second control wheel on the back, which the Rebels lack. That control wheel is everything when shooting. Even if it means you get a previous generation body to stay in-budget, I'd suggest getting (for example) an EOS 40D vs a Rebel XSi. Pictured below, the backs of a 50D and Rebel XSi.

[MexicanDragon]

Canon EOS-50D SLR Digital Camera Body

Right at 900$ shipped.

Or, go through the Amazon link from HC and get it for 10$ more Amazon.com: Canon EOS 50D 15.1MP Digital SLR Camera (Body Only): Electronics

If you're buying new, it seems like 40Ds are going for as much or more than 50Ds. I just nabbed a 20D and a little glass and am thrilled with it, and even though it's a bit older it still handles quite well.

There is always fredmiranda.com: Specialized in Canon - Nikon SLR Cameras, Forum, Photoshop Plugins, Actions, Reviews, Hosting and Digital Darkroom if you wanted to check out the used market.

Not that it may matter to anyone, but I never really liked any of the consumer (Rebel) series cameras to fit my hands at all. I always loved the feel of the Prosumer/Pro lines, even when I was looking at Nikon heavily.

Now you just need what, a 430EX and to dust off those old lenses and you're good to go, right?

**BRENT**

[Salt Peanuts]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I plan on heading to a shop soon to play with some cameras as well as to get the lenses cleaned/checked out. Assuming the lenses are in good working order, I may just wait for the rumored replacement for 50D to check that out since I'm in no real hurry (the replacement will probably drop the price further on 50D as well).

Now you just need what, a 430EX and to dust off those old lenses and you're good to go, right?

Actually, also found a 380EX sitting in wife's old camera bag as well. Not sure how good that thing is, but hoping it means I won't have to get a new one. She had mostly forgotten about her camera gears as he convenience of digital cameras won her over.

[aerius]

I'd say forget DSLRs unless you need the fast focus & tracking capabilities they offer for your photography, or you need the manual depth of field & focus controls which some DSLRs don't even have anymore. Hell, most lenses don't even have a depth of field scale these days.

I'd personally go with the micro 4/3 system and the Panasonic GF1 which can be found on Amazon for under $900. You get a smaller lighter camera which you can stuff into a pocket and the sensor size is still large enough that you can take high quality pictures in all but the worst lighting conditions. If the lighting's that bad then you can switch to the 20mm/1.7 prime and still get the shot, or get an adaptor and slap a Leica Noctilux lens on it. Which would be pretty silly, but possible.

[blessingx]

x2. It's certainly the camera I most want, though upcoming Olympus PEN E-PL1 should be a consideration too. Either body and a pancake lens would be so much more portable than most dSLRs.

[MexicanDragon]

I love the thought of the GF1 and other Micro 4/3s cameras, or the Canon G11, or the S90IS, but these are all still point and shoot cameras, all of them, albeit mostly very nice ones. None of them are going to be fast enough to catch the cute shot of the new addition to the family that happens spontaneously. Leave it on the "On" or "white line" setting at all times, hit the shutter button, and the camera is on and ready to shoot by the time the shutter is released. In a couple years it will matter a little more, once the child is running around wreaking havoc. Having the ability to shoot in rapid succession is going to be nice to have as well.

As far as carrying the camera, well, the modern dad needs his own diaper bag which is both fashionable and functional. I have a feeling Amazon.com: Crumpler THE BRAZILLION DOLLAR HOME Photo Laptop Backpack Shoulder Bag (Gun Metal/Black/Orange): Clothing or Amazon.com: Crumpler MD0807A 8 Million Dollar Home Black/Gun Metal Digital SLR Camera 13in. Laptop Shoulder Bag: Camera & Photo would serve you well. It will hold a camera (or 2), a few lenses, laptop, 372 diapers, a bucket of formula, a pack-n-play, a pico dac + pico slim + JH13s (or JH16s, if you prefer), multiple bottles, etc. Oh, the Brazillion Dollar Home has straps on the bottom to carry a tripod. If you play it right, you could probably strap a small umbrella stroller to it that way.

You could always wait and see if the 50D drops when the 60D (or 50D Mk II?) comes out and snag that + a good P&S, maybe for the missus to keep with her so she can grab the shots of pops carrying a bag that would hold a small car around his back, playing with the new baby. Just a thought...

**BRENT**

[aerius]

I love the thought of the GF1 and other Micro 4/3s cameras, or the Canon G11, or the S90IS, but these are all still point and shoot cameras, all of them, albeit mostly very nice ones. None of them are going to be fast enough to catch the cute shot of the new addition to the family that happens spontaneously. Leave it on the "On" or "white line" setting at all times, hit the shutter button, and the camera is on and ready to shoot by the time the shutter is released. In a couple years it will matter a little more, once the child is running around wreaking havoc. Having the ability to shoot in rapid succession is going to be nice to have as well.

That only matters if you're going to carry the DSLR with you at all times with the camera turned on. How many people are going to do that? Realistically you're going to have to grab the camera off the table or whatever, turn it on and then take pictures, and if you're doing that a DSLR isn't really any faster. Focus tracking and fast continuous shooting is nice for shooting photos as the kid runs around, but again, do you really need 100 photos of your kid running around for 15 seconds? Are you prepared to sort through thousands of photos to pick out a dozen good ones? It's "spray & pray" and gives way too much work afterwards, and chances are the person will get so frustrated sorting through the crap that he just forgets about the pictures forever. I've seen it happen a lot. It's much better to follow the action with the viewfinder or screen and take a few pictures at the decisive moments, and almost any camera is good enough for this if you know how to use it.

I'm doing this with a Canon SD800IS, kids aren't gonna be a problem. Unless he's from Krypton or something.

[grawk]

do you really need 100 photos of your kid running around for 15 seconds?

That's how I got every single great picture of my kids.

[MexicanDragon]

...Do you really need 100 photos of your kid running around for 15 seconds? Are you prepared to sort through thousands of photos to pick out a dozen good ones?...

Yes. It's what grawk said... that's how you get good pix. I'll take 300-400 at a soccer game of my daughter's, hoping to get 10-20 good shots. If I took 10-20 shots with a P&S, I'd maybe get one. The 300-400 was with a P&S superzoom, and I really wasn't happy with it, so that's why I've upgraded gear.

Another thing... look at the title of the thread. I think Mr. Peanut knows what he's about to get into, and what goes along with that.

**BRENT**

[morphsci]

That only matters if you're going to carry the DSLR with you at all times with the camera turned on. How many people are going to do that? Realistically you're going to have to grab the camera off the table or whatever, turn it on and then take pictures, and if you're doing that a DSLR isn't really any faster. Focus tracking and fast continuous shooting is nice for shooting photos as the kid runs around, but again, do you really need 100 photos of your kid running around for 15 seconds? Are you prepared to sort through thousands of photos to pick out a dozen good ones? It's "spray & pray" and gives way too much work afterwards, and chances are the person will get so frustrated sorting through the crap that he just forgets about the pictures forever. I've seen it happen a lot. It's much better to follow the action with the viewfinder or screen and take a few pictures at the decisive moments, and almost any camera is good enough for this if you know how to use it.

You obviously don't have kids so your advice is a bit suspect to say the least.

That's how I got every single great picture of my kids.

Yes. It's what grawk said... that's how you get good pix. I'll take 300-400 at a soccer game of my daughter's, hoping to get 10-20 good shots. If I took 10-20 shots with a P&S, I'd maybe get one. The 300-400 was with a P&S superzoom, and I really wasn't happy with it, so that's why I've upgraded gear.

Another thing... look at the title of the thread. I think Mr. Peanut knows what he's about to get into, and what goes along with that.

**BRENT**

Yes and Yes. So make that three. You absolutely want and need the DSLR get a Canon since you already have some lenses. Then get some big ass memory cards and shoot like hell. Sorting through is easier than some make it out to be as you are actually reliving those moments again.

[aerius]

You obviously don't have kids so your advice is a bit suspect to say the least.

I know enough people who have kids, most of them got a DSLR and went nuts with taking pictures for a year or two, then they get sick of it or overwhelmed by the sheer volume of photos and really start cutting down on how many photos they took. They'd go from 20-30k photos a year to about a tenth of that or even less in some cases. In almost every case the photos got better when they cut down on the numbers since they are now putting more thought into the composition of the pictures instead of just hoping the magic moment was captured in one of the 10,000 frames they shot.

What I'm getting at is this. It's not the camera that counts, it's the person behind it. A DSLR is not some magic tool that's required for good kid pictures, most people think they absolutely must have one but this isn't true. It has features which can make the job easier if you know what you're doing, but some of its other characteristics can get in the way and make the job harder. It's not a silver bullet, and in most cases it's complete overkill.

[Knuckledragger]

*snip*

The message you have entered is too short. When you're in a hole, stop digging.

[morphsci]

Typical worthless drivel

STFU. Knowing people who have kids is not being a parent. It's like saying your Cassanova because you kissed your sister (or in your case your brother).

[aerius]

STFU. Knowing people who have kids is not being a parent. It's like saying your Cassanova because you kissed your sister (or in your case your brother).

Blow it out your ass, fuckwad. If we're talking about raising kids and how to be a parent you'd be right and we'd have no argument.

But we're not talking about raising kids are we? Or are you dumb enough to equate the act of photographing kids with that of raising kids?

Oh yeah, and it's "you're" not "your". As in you're a clownfucking moron and you sodomized your mom.

[morphsci]

Blow it out your ass, fuckwad. If we're talking about raising kids and how to be a parent you'd be right and we'd have no argument.

But we're not talking about raising kids are we? Or are you dumb enough to equate the act of photographing kids with that of raising kids?

Oh yeah, and it's "you're" not "your". As in you're a clownfucking moron and you sodomized your mom.

Stick to what you know, like sodomy. If you actually had any experience photographing kids you wouldn't be on the side of the argument you are on. But then again, that's par for the course with you. Always the expert on everything, at least in your own mind. Good catch on the lack of the proper contraction, you certainly showed me how intelligent you are.

Edited February 14, 2010 by morphsci

[Knuckledragger]

The message you have entered is too short. Hey aerius, what's the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy shit on the wall and the mozzarella sticks?

[Beefy]

........ moving right along.

Its been a couple of years since I used a top-tier compact, but there is NO WAY I would go back after using an SLR. The improved responsiveness, shooting speed, focussing reliability, low light capability...... it all makes the SLR an absolute joy to use for everything from happy snaps to my lame attempts at arty farty. The only time I use a compact now is when I'm on the sauce.

I've got a D90, and love it. Has the useful dual command dials, and a big and bright viewfinder. Can't imagine what more I could need.

[morphsci]

........ ..I've got a D90, and love it. Has the useful dual command dials, and a big and bright viewfinder. Can't imagine what more I could need.

Keeping on topic. Do you have any reservations about the D90? I'm thinking about getting one to replace my D50 as my backup, slog around SLR.