Cowards at Head-Fi!

[thrice]

ray wasn't prevented from attending. i asked him not to. he wouldn't have been turned away at the door if he had decided to show up anyway. let's say you are throwing a party, and someone that your friends were uncomfortable with, someone who you suspected had an ulterior motive, asked for an invitation. would you go ahead and invite that person even if it meant that the point of the party (having fun) would be lost? it might sound like rationalization, coming from me, but i think there is a pretty big difference between barring someone from attending and asking someone to not attend because it would have soured the meet.

I'm not siding against you man, you don't have to explain yourself to me. All I was saying was that there is a parallel here. That's it.

[tiberian]

I seriously doubt Ray would have showed up at a meet he had been clearly told he was (unwelcomed and) not invited. To say he wasn?t prevented from attending is a bit disingenuous with all due respect. Yet I think you should have let the man attend and if he did something (overtly) offensive, you could have politely ask him to quit it or leave. For whatever reason Ray and Head-Fi seem like a packaged item.

instead of making himself a tolerable guest by trying to squash some of the beef between him and singlepower/sacd lover, he chose to post reks' pm and stirred shit up. remember he started the amp war and all the bashings, not mikhail nor earl.

[909]

Obviously, Ray isn?t blameless.

But if they didn?t outright rebuked him it could have possibly turned the page to a new chapter.

[JBLoudG20]

So Tyll has the money then? If Jude wants nothign to do with it (for financial reasons) let Tyll take care of it however he sees fit. In this case he is probably limited to non-profit actions. What is holding everything back then?

[hirsch]

For whatever reason Ray and Head-Fi seem like a packaged item.

Jude is the person who first asked Ray to build a headphone amp. Does that help put the pieces together?

[grawk]

I'm not siding against you man, you don't have to explain yourself to me. All I was saying was that there is a parallel here. That's it.

What exactly is the parallel between on one hand, someone asking a disruptive influence to not come to a meet, and on the other, someone trying to prevent the creation of a non-partisan governing body for headphone related meets and being thwarted?

[thrice]

What exactly is the parallel between on one hand, someone asking a disruptive influence to not come to a meet, and on the other, someone trying to prevent the creation of a non-partisan governing body for headphone related meets and being thwarted?

Both were cases of Head-Fi interfering with things that it did not necessarily have the right to interfere in. If head-Fi can't accept those funds; if there was an agreement to use those funds and if Head-Fi as an entity had nothing to do with the planning and execution of the National meet, then I don't see how Jude gets to decide or post how those funds are used.

I also do not feel Head-Fi has the right to dictate whether a member should or should not allow a person over their house for a meet. That's the parallel. If you are holding a meet at your house, I don't think Head-Fi should have a say as to who is invited and who isn't.

Sorry I didn't explain myself more clearly.

[grawk]

Ah, ok, I thought you were saying the parallel was between how jude handled things on one hand, and how reks handled things on another.

[909]

Thanks hirsch. I remember hearing about that, but I suspect there's something more to their relationship possibly financially, product perks of some sort or they are just really good friends. Or some combo of things.

[thrice]

Jude is the person who first asked Ray to build a headphone amp. Does that help put the pieces together?

Wait a minute....Jude knows Ray

[Post]

the Casino sucks these days. THIS thread is where it's at! go, go, controversy!

[n_maher]

I think people need to just bear in mind that you're never going to hear Tyll's side of this, or at least not all of it. He can't explain it because he's bound by a relationship to Head-Fi whether he wants to tell Jude to piss off or not. My personal opinion is that he's bent over backwards to try and help Head-Fi and is probably about just about sick of it. He volunteered his company to underwrite the National Meet because Jude/Head-Fi couldn't, he volunteered his contacts within the industry to help make the meet a success even though it meant less exposure for his company and more competition in the room, he held the proceeds of the meet because Jude can't accept them even though it potentially could lead to tax issues for him and finally if there was a vendor in that room who made less of a big deal about being there I can't think of it. Most of them (with good reason) were hawking their goods all over the place (as expected) but Tyll and Andrew (at least I think it was Andrew) just kind of kicked back and let people come to them. While there is no doubt that Tyll has financial motives in this game his overall motivation has always been to grow the hobby and let people find Headroom as a result of that.

Also, I have no idea what sort of discussion between Tyll and Jude may have gone on recently, it may be that Tyll new that Jude was going to make this post and is fine with it, then again maybe Jude decided that he didn't want to support the Hobbyist organization? Who knows? Probably only Jude and I'm guessing you wont see him posting about it any time soon. Clearly he doesn't want much discussion about the $$ since he's already locked the thread he started .

In the end the Hobbyist's Association is going to move forward with or without Head-Fi for the simple reason that it has to. If it doesn't we all risk losing what little control we have over the national meet and other large regional meets. How long do you think it's going to take for some corporate entity with no interest in growing the hobby or running it as a non-profit to come along and see that there's money to be made by hosting a large Headphone event? Personally I'd rather see Head-Fi involved with this effort but if they'd rather be the enemy of it so be it.

[Tyll Hertsens]

Thanks hirsch. I remember hearing about that, but I suspect there's something more to their relationship possibly financially, product perks of some sort or they are just really good friends. Or some combo of things.

No nothing under the table except maybe that I've given Jude a module upgrade at one point. The reson I have the money is that I ran all the revinues through my books. I collected all the vendor table reciepts and I was given the cash from the meet. I then did all the acounting to summary and presented the summary to Jude with a willingness for all proceeds to go to Head-Fi. He couldn't take the raffle money, so he got some $4400 in clean money. And here I sit on the rest. I have been trying to organize a hobbyist assn. the details of which I won't go into at the moment, but some here were participating. Jude has been very uncomfortable with some of those participants and has some good reason to feel uncomfortable given the negatives expressed here. It turns out to be somewhat of a deal killer.

I like Jude a lot and have been talking with him this morning at length, and communicating with him by email. I think we have made gains in understanding each others motives, and I know that we both very much want a thriving hobby. I remain hopeful that something can be worked out.

As to why do we need Head-Fi: because it has great power to influence and make colaboration between the entire community possible. This is due to Jude's work over he past five years in developing an excellent community forum. Again do not take for granted what he has accomplished there, it deserves strong recognition.

You all know and have at times complianed that HeadCase is a bitchfest, and has limited attraction to members at large. It was founded out of frustration and not with an ultimate goal of a unified community of headphone enthusiasts. While it might be a legitimate reaction to the things you have been feeling at Head-Fi, HeadCase, in my view, is mostly just a symptomatic angry responce to a lack of representative governance in the hobby, but it is not, nor was it designed to be, AFAIK, a constructive reaction to the problem. It's more of a pressure release. I don't have a problem with that because it just seems a natural response to some peoples feelings, but Jude doesn't quite view it that way.

In the end, as I recall the "Billy the Pussy" misadventure, I tend to think this place is fundimentally divisive. I too have fallen into that with Billy. And I think it therefor poses a destructive threat to the community. However, I'm not angy with you guys because I understand, and in some ways, share your frustrations.

[Filburt]

To be more specific, Jude refused the money because it came from a raffle. This is considered gambling, which can only be done by a non-profit organization. So Tyll essentially had no choice but to create a non-profit that could legally accept the funds, and put them toward future meets and promoting the headphone hobby. Tyll informed Jude of this, and he initially agreed to it. However, Jude has some issues with the organization that's being created, so now he's attempting a pre-emptive strike, publicly talking about distributing funds which he has previously refused, to try and undercut the non-profit before it gets going.

So is he trying to give it to charity so that he can still avoid the legal problems while preventing the non-profit from getting off the ground, then?

[909]

Tyll, I was referring to Ray... \

[hungrych]

Is he so against a hobbyist organization not run by him that he puts forward the idea of dontating to charity to try to make Tyll look bad if he uses the money to build one instead of donating it?

[Tyll Hertsens]

Tyll, I was referring to Ray... \

Oh. \ Sorry, duh. I didn't take offence to it anyway. It did seem like a legitimate question for me to answer. No worries, mate.

[Tyll Hertsens]

Is he so against a hobbyist organization not run by him that he puts forward the idea of dontating to charity to try to make Tyll look bad if he uses the money to build one instead of donating it?

Let's not try to read too much into it. I think we should let things play out for a while.

[Yikes]

The deletion this morning (in less than two minutes) of my reasonable post suggesting the money be used to start a non-profit entity to run the meets spoke volumes to me. Jude obviously is dead set against such an enterprise.

Apparently one of the main problems that Jude had with the effort to start a 501c3 was that Tyll consulted with several Head-Case malcontents, including me. I suppose that we?re not worthy. I believe that I was consulted because I have been in the audio industry for twenty years, not because I?m some sort of Headphone Supremeus. In any case Tyll consulted with many people, most of whom are not Headcase malcontents.

I?d hate to think that Jude is so petty as to kill the effort to form a National Headphone Organization out of spite for a few individuals. I?d gladly bow out to insure the successful creation of such an organization. I do feel strongly however that it be independent of Head-Fi. It CAN NOT be an extension of Judes little kingdom. The organization needs to be democratic, with an elected board.

Tyll, I would be glad to donate $100 to become a charter member of such an organization.

Let me know.

Ethan

[Tyll Hertsens]

Tyll, I would be glad to donate $100 to become a charter member of such an organization.

Let me know.

Ethan

Noted, old man. My intent all along has been to make membership free, so hang on to your Ben Franklin. However, I did intend to solicit Trade Members for donations to loaner gear pools, so I may yet end up twisting your arm for some cable.

[909]

I?d gladly bow out to insure the successful creation of such an organization.

About an hour or so ago, I sent Tyll a pm indicating a very similar thing. I want what's best for Head-First and the headphone enthusiast community and trust Tyll?s judgment on this matter and whatever he ultimately decides to do I?ll completely understand.

[archosman]

I thought that was Tuberoller's doing...

//been too long

/// can't remember

[Tuberoller]

yep,

I did all that and caused that whole amp-wars garbage. . I also hid a 9mm Glock in my afro at every meet just in case Kevin Gilmore came to get me. I'd say that in order for a conclusion to be reached a small thing like PROOF might be required. Since I know for a fact that you don't have any, I'll conclude that once again all you can do is assume, which we all know is the tool of fools and idiots.

[archosman]

yep,

I did all that and caused that whole amp-wars garbage. . I also hid a 9mm Glock in my afro at every meet just in case Kevin Gilmore came to get me. I'd say that in order for a conclusion to be reached a small thing like PROOF might be required. Since I know for a fact that you don't have any, I'll conclude that once again all you can do is assume, which we all know is the tool of fools and idiots.

Full size or baby Glock? You'd need a pretty big afro for the full size one...

[Tuberoller]

I run wit dat Glock 26. They issue those at the CFD now for all officers.