PS Audio PerfectWave DAC

[The Monkey]

I think based on the current SQ of the PWD and the future capabilities of it with the bridge, it is worth that price range. However, we will likely see excellent condition used models coming up on the gon for less in a couple of months. Regardless, I bought mine from Liquid HiFi and have no regrets.

I will note, however, that the Parasound D/AC 1100 is a great sounding DAC that I think actually belongs in the same league as the PWD. I think the PWD is better, but at quite a substantial price increase. My point is that I think price and DAC satisfaction bear little relationship to each other.

EDIT: and my experience buying from Liquid HiFI was excellent.

Edited February 22, 2010 by The Monkey

[Voltron]

Wat? Mike is selling the Perfect Wave?

Look, Larry, I don't know about all the mods you mention but the DL III is mediocre from the times I have heard it, so more mods is more lipstick on a pig in my book. The PW is cutting edge, forward-looking, and gets great reviews from people who have good ears and don't bullshit. Bring your source up to the level or your amps.

[HeadphoneAddict]

I think based on the current SQ of the PWD and the future capabilities of it with the bridge, it is worth that price range. However, we will likely see excellent condition used models coming up on the gon for less in a couple of months. Regardless, I bought mine from Liquid HiFi and have no regrets.

I will note, however, that the Parasound D/AC 1100 is a great sounding DAC that I think actually belongs in the same league as the PWD. I think the PWD is better, but at quite a substantial price increase. My point is that I think price and DAC satisfaction bear little relationship to each other.

EDIT: and my experience buying from Liquid HiFI was excellent.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback on it.

Wat? Mike is selling the Perfect Wave?

Look, Larry, I don't know about all the mods you mention but the DL III is mediocre from the times I have heard it, so more mods is more lipstick on a pig in my book. The PW is cutting edge, forward-looking, and gets great reviews from people who have good ears and don't bullshit. Bring your source up to the level or your amps.

Mike isn't sure if he is selling yet, but he is considering it. I sent an email to Paul McGowen at PS Audio to make sure I that still have a warranty if Mike decides to sell and I buy it. I have over half the money now for a new one, and the rest will be here between the 23rd and 26th with our tax refund. Having already sold the Pico and Predator really helped raise funds for this. I'm keeping the Apogee mini-DAC for my bedroom rig, and not sure what I'll do with the DLIII (and I'm still getting the Slim). If I do get this PWD I will have to forget about a phono preamp for a while, so I can still get an implant for the cracked molar that I needed removed.

I did think the PS Audio DLIII in 96K up-sampling mode sounded exactly like a Stello DA100 Signature in a 2-3 hour side-by-side comparison, although I still prefer my Apogee mini-DAC/S11 PSU. I'm not sure I would have called DLIII mediocre, except that the jitter with Apple TV was bad and the Cullen stage IV that someone brought to RMAF sounded a bit better (more refined and spacious, less edgy).

[morphsci]

... (Relevant Stuff) .... I have over half the money now for a new one, and the rest will be here between the 23rd and 26th with our tax refund. Having already sold the Pico and Predator really helped raise funds for this. I'm keeping the Apogee mini-DAC for my bedroom rig, and not sure what I'll do with the DLIII (and I'm still getting the Slim). If I do get this PWD I will have to forget about a phono preamp for a while, so I can still get an implant for the cracked molar that I needed removed.

(Semi relevant stuff).

Did you ever get that little ED problem fixed?

[Voltron]

Pegging it into the red again.

[tyrion]

Wat? Mike is selling the Perfect Wave?

The only reason I bought the PWD is because I wanted balanced outs. I was not aware that the 302 has them. I can't keep both, nor do I have use for both. The plan was to sell the 302 originally for the reasons I already mentioned. However, I've had it listed for a few days and only a couple of nibbles so far so if I can't sell the 302, the PWD has to go. Over the next couple of nights I'm going to compare the two.

[n_maher]

Mike,

If you keep the 302 and need a balanced set of cables, just ask.

[tyrion]

Thanks Nate. I need a long run due to where I have the KGSS set up. I may send the balanced cables I have for you to terminate with 1/4 plugs. I just picked up some trs to xlr adapters at a local music equipment store to try tonight. I also have some cables you made for Jeff.

[The Monkey]

The only reason I bought the PWD is because I wanted balanced outs. I was not aware that the 302 has them. I can't keep both, nor do I have use for both. The plan was to sell the 302 originally for the reasons I already mentioned. However, I've had it listed for a few days and only a couple of nibbles so far so if I can't sell the 302, the PWD has to go. Over the next couple of nights I'm going to compare the two.

Take a look at this possibility before parting with the PWD.

[tyrion]

That is pretty cool. Like I said, it's not that I want to part with it, I just don't know that I can afford to keep both. I will see what happens when the Amex bill arrives.

[Asr]

Ron at Liquid HiFi is offering me a killer price on the PWD that is good through the end of the month, so I may have to make a decision sooner (unless I buy Tyrion's if the warranty is transferable).

What's the killer price? I wonder if I should get one too.

Also Larry, do you really need to routinely state the details of how your money is funding your equipment purchases, where it's set up in your home, and your medical issues? No offense but those are all things that we really don't need to know and on the medical issues, something I personally really don't want to know.

[HeadphoneAddict]

What's the killer price? I wonder if I should get one too.

Also Larry, do you really need to routinely state the details of how your money is funding your equipment purchases, where it's set up in your home, and your medical issues? No offense but those are all things that we really don't need to know and on the medical issues, something I personally really don't want to know.

I get so much f'ing crap from someone here when I suddenly have money for something I couldn't afford before, that I try to make sure he knows I wasn't lying about not having the money without selling something. Can't please anyone I suppose.

[GPH]

Larry, this hobby is about having fun and enjoying music, don't put too much thought in what people think of your decisions. Truth is, most people here don't care at all.

[The Monkey]

What's the killer price? I wonder if I should get one too.

I got mine for under 2200 new, which was very competitive. Not sure where his prices are now. Here's his website: http://www.liquidhifi.com. He's very responsive via email, and I believe has an account here.

Also, not sure how much of a difference this makes to you, but I consider the PWD to be slightly warm sounding.

[tyrion]

I did some comparisons with the 302 last night with the 4070/KGSS. I volume matched using my SPL meter. It was a pain switching back and forth as I had to disconnect the xlr from the pwd and connect them to the trs > xlr adapters, then go into sound settings in the mini to choose either dac. I did this for about 45 minutes. I kept the pwd on filter 3, which is the one Jeff and I think I prefer. I listened to mostly jazz and jazz funk. Beyond volume matching there was nothing scientific to what I did. My conclusion is that there is not enough of a discernible difference between the two to make say, I must have one over the other. In terms of features available right now, the pwd is more intuitive (by a long shot), more up to date consumer technology that has a preamp function and remote. The 302 was never intended to be a consumer product so it will never keep up in that department. The advantage to the 302 is that it is significantly smaller (this is not an important one for me as I have plenty of room on my rack. It has an ADC for needle drops and to be used as a phono preamp. It turns out the noise issue I am having with the preamp at the moment is being shared by the Primaire phono pre I am brought home for an audition so once I work that out, I will be back to using the 302 as a phono preamp, I believe. The 302 is also a preap and allows me to run balanced line out to the KGSS and balanced preamp out to my amp (once the McCormack returns). This is a big advantage over the pwd. It does not have a remote but I can set it on full volume and use itunes to control volume. While I would prefer to have itunes on full and use a remote, I'm not sure there is any difference in sq. The idea of the bridge is nice but who knows when it will be available. The pwd does win on the cool factor but functionally, the 302 is at least on par if not better. The ears of others may hear more of a sq difference but for me, either of them sounds good to me. Could this be sub conscience telling me the 302 should stay because I can't get what I want for it at the moment and can with the pwd so my Amex bill will be covered? Could it also be because I can always get a pwd for a few hundred more than I paid? The answer to both questions is, absolutely.

[JimP]

How is the PWD as a preamp? (eg, the Berkeley Alpha is cited for its direct preamp capabilities, besides of course it's outstanding DAC sound). Trying to steel my will for a major source upgrade this year...saving nickels and dimes (eg, selling every piddly thing in my storage bins). Maybe I can better justify it psychologically as a great DAC AND preamp. Probably unlikely but anyone try PWD vs Berkelely Alpha?

[tyrion]

I would have used it as a preamp if I were keeping it. I am back to doing that with my SS 302. For some reason, it seemed the 302 and my preamp were interacting causing a hum when I used the 302 as a phono or used a separate phono pre. Now that the preamp is out of the system, the phono noise level is down to what I consider acceptable. I think what little is left will be eliminated once I add a step up to the set up.

[JimP]

Hi - another question:

- does PWD output both analog XLR and single-ended RCA simultaneously, and

- does volume control both XLR and SE outputs

[tyrion]

I'm pretty certain the answer is yes to both questions.

[minimus]

Hi - another question:

- does PWD output both analog XLR and single-ended RCA simultaneously, and

- does volume control both XLR and SE outputs

The answer to both questions is a definite yes, as I have done this. (I used the RCA outs to connect to a cheap headphone amp and the XLRs to connect to my power amp when I was using the DAC as a preamp, and the DAC's volume control worked for both RCA and XLR outs.)

[rogue]

Got one of these coming in. Will be interesting to compare with the ECD-1.

[HeadphoneAddict]

The answer to both questions is a definite yes, as I have done this. (I used the RCA outs to connect to a cheap headphone amp and the XLRs to connect to my power amp when I was using the DAC as a preamp, and the DAC's volume control worked for both RCA and XLR outs.)

I'm hoping somebody can help with with a problem doing this with my PWD.

I am getting hum and noise (not a clean hum) when both my Woo WES is connected via XLR and my EC ZDT is connected via RCA at the same time. It's only when listening to the PWD when both amps are connected, and if I unplug the WES XLR interconnect the ZDT becomes silent, and if I unplug the ZDT RCA interconnect the WES becomes silent. If I switch the ZDT to input #2 with my phono preamplifier it becomes silent, but I haven't tried the phono preamp on the WES because the WES is the balanced only demo unit. It doesn't make it go away if I unplug an amp's power cable, only if I unplug the interconnect.

It seems to be a combination of ground loop and RFI, because it changes as I move the headphones around farther and closer to the amps. It actually improved a little when I unplugged my Synergistic Research active shielded coax cable from the wall. But the noise is still there even with no digital cables plugged into the DAC (only power and interconnects). It doesn't matter if the PWD is set for COAX, TOSlink or USB input, the noise is there. I've even removed the Coax and USB and optical cables from the rig and put them far away, so they don't act like antennas. But, if I switch the PWD inputs to I2S then the noise goes away (I have no I2S cable or source connected, but I just got an HDMI cable to plug into it and see if that makes it noisy).

My Digital Link III and Apogee mini-DAC have never had this problem with hum/noise when both amps are connected to the same DAC, using these same power cables and interconnects. I was up until 4AM last night trying to find a way to eliminate it, and the best thing I can do is to unplug the interconnects from one of the two amps. Sometimes I can touch an amp with my hand and quiet the hum/noise but not completely, and sometimes touching one it makes it louder. It's not always the same amp that I have to touch to lower the hum/noise, because that changes depending on how I swap or route my cables differently.

It's definitely worsened or improved if I move my ZDT PSU around, and it also changes in volume if I move my headphones closer or farther from my rig (HD800). Right now, by moving the ZDT PSU to the granite shelf behind the rig I have the hum/noise reduced to about 70-80 dB below the music levels (a guess), if I sit in the right spot and not too close to the rig. But it still bugs the hell out of me that I can't get silence without unplugging the WES when listening to the ZDT, or unplugging the ZDT when listening to the WES.

My interconnects are anti-cables IC's, and I plan to see if my ALO SXC IC's in the bedroom rig have better shielding. In the photo attached, the DLIII is completely unplugged and disconnected, not doing anything, but the ZDT PSU hasn't been moved yet. My power cables are a Shunyata Viper on the ZDT and a Tributaries cable from a local hi-fi shop on the WES. I've tried swapping the power cables, and plugging them into an APC battery backup or just a simple power strip with no change. I'm thinking of trying my Belkin home theater noise filter power strip that I use in the bedroom rig, but I'm not convinced those things really work all that much, nor that it would help in this case. Because everything becomes silent when only one amp is plugged, in I don't think the APC is giving me noisy AC power.

Any suggestions? Ranging from simple to hard, I'm game?

[grawk]

Try connecting a wire between bare metal on each chassis

[HeadphoneAddict]

Try connecting a wire between bare metal on each chassis

That should be easy, as these amps are covered in screws. I'll report back after I pick up kids from school. Thanks!

[mrarroyo]

Some amps and power centers have ground posts on the back. My old Monster 3500 MkII has it and I have used with good results before. So do as Grawk suggested, good luck.