The Headcase Stax thread

[MaloS]

YOU ARE A WHORE AND I HOPE YOU DIE.

He's been working on it for a while, oh believe me there.

[MaloS]

Eh, I think you've been listening to the SR-005 too much. Compared to that, sure, the O2/Dared is bright. But compared to something more neutral, not really.

Blame SRS-005a for my ability to hear higher frequencies ;-).

[spritzer]

I don't want it diplomatic, I want it right between the eyes. I'm one heck of a lot less diplomatic IRL than online, which makes me... just about the complete opposite of 99.9% of the population. I tell the truth, and usually that gets me into trouble. Oh well...

I'll post high rez pics in a few days, but you'd better hold onto your lunch. It ain't pretty.

Being diplomatic is so HF... so fuck that!!!

Can't wait to see some pix.

[Asr]

So I read on Head-Fi that the Woo GES isn't ideal for the OII. So I take it it'd be a waste of time & money to try with my MKII anyway? I was considering trying out the GES until I read that. Would the Raytheon 12BZ7s help any?

What would be the best Stax amps to pair up with the MKII instead? SRM-727tII? 007tII?

[spritzer]

So I read on Head-Fi that the Woo GES isn't ideal for the OII. So I take it it'd be a waste of time & money to try with my MKII anyway? I was considering trying out the GES until I read that. Would the Raytheon 12BZ7s help any?

What would be the best Stax amps to pair up with the MKII instead? SRM-727tII? 007tII?

The 007 Mk2 is more forward sounding then the Mk1 so it apears to be easier to driver but they really aren't. I've never tried the GES so I have no idea how it will fair but on paper it would struggle. The 12BZ7's aren't the output tubes so they won't make any difference here. You could have Woo upgrade the PSU and use something larger as output tubes but it looks like they are already going in that direction...

I didn't like either one of the new Stax TOTL amps so I would track down a 717.

[deepak]

It would be a 2 box design (an AMP stack on a PSU), exposed tubes, standard

chassis size, running on 4 EL34 power tubes, 4 6SL7 drivers and 2 5AR4

rectifiers. A very rough estimated price would be $3000 to $4000. I am

hoping a prototype be completed in 2 months time frame.

.

[Anders]

I think the 717 is a very good amp, especially at used price. It is a neutral amp without any harshness or other treble artifacts . It has a very slight warmth but does not add any artificial warmth (with my Reimyo DAC). It will reveal source weakness but that must not necessarily sound bad if there is some synergy!

My main complaint with the 717 is that it has somewhat limited output power and does not drive the O2 to its full potential. It drives HE60 and the 404's much better than the 007t amp and I think the 717 has fully adequate driving power for these headphones. But I still think that the 717 is very good with O2's but it is a little lacking in bass that is not hitting hard enough and too soft and uncontrolled. That also makes the overall presentation lacking some impact.

I don't like the O2 with 007t although it works more or less well depending on type of music (hint: bass content). I think that 007t with Electro-Harmonix tubes sounded better with O2 than with 404 and HE60. The tube brightness was not so apparent with O2 as with the other headphones but I finally swithched back to Raytheon because the EH are too bright with the lesser headphones and to the extent I will use the 007t it will be with HE60 and Lambda type headphones. The somewhat eyuphonic character of the Raytheons can also be a nice complement to the much more netral 717.

Both 007t and 717 sound better with the balanced input. I don't know if it depends on the amplifier design or that the balanced output on the DAC is better (my unbalanced cables should be at least as good as my balanced).

The new Woo offering is interesting indeeed. The same output tubes as the Blue Hawaii should give it adequate driving power. Headamp electrostatic amps are currently unavailable (at least for most of us) and I hope Woo will make a really good amplifier. But the 717 should definitely be the best value for money.

[spritzer]

The same output tubes as the Blue Hawaii should give it adequate driving power.

The tubes used are only a part of the puzzle and the key behind the BH isn't the output tubes but how they are used. I'm certain that we will get detailed internal pics from Woo when the time comes (it's called having nothing to hide ) and then we can see what design they based this amp on.

[Anders]

It was just a glimpse of hope, it is always possible to fuck up with a design. An a second thought, it might weight 40 + 40 pound like WA5 and then I am probably not interested. Oops, it was only 35 + 40 pound lbs, at least for the light edition (LE).

[spritzer]

More weight is always better when it comes to amps and tube amps in particular. Transformers need to be fairly big to start with...

[brat]

But I still think that the 717 is very good with O2's but it is a little lacking in bass that is not hitting hard enough and too soft and uncontrolled.

If you read carefully all Stax threads you will know that O2mk1 is the Omega with the right bass.

[spritzer]

If you read carefully all Stax threads you will know that O2mk1 is the Omega with the right bass.

That would be correct but the SR-Omega isn't that much worse, a bit woolly and uncontrolled at high volume levels but that's it.

[Anders]

If you read carefully all Stax threads you will know that O2mk1 is the Omega with the right bass.

What is written in the threads is not audible. I was a little careless regarding model number, I have the 007 Mk 1. I don't mean that bass is insufficient in volume but it is sometimes a little uncontrolled and not tight enough. That is not easy to evaluate because the reproduction from most headphone / amp combos understate the deep and round content of bass and that is very well reproduced by the 007 Mk 1. But I still think that it lacks some control, tightness and could be more hard-hitting. I believe that the weak point is primarily on the amplification side and feel not sure if Mk 1 is the best alternative just now because amplifiers that are better than 717 are not available for the moment. But I have not heard Mk 2 (007A).

My reluctance of headphone amplifiers with a weight of 80 pounds is philosophical rather than technological, but I am skeptical of the necessity.

[spritzer]

Have you tried to bend the arcs at all? This was also my longstanding objection to the Mk1 but once I found the perfect fit the bass is much better.

My reluctance of headphone amplifiers with a weight of 80 pounds is philosophical rather than technological, but I am skeptical of the necessity.

You need the extra weight in normal tube amps due to the output transformers, two of them in fact. To avoid core saturation you need a lot of iron and it isn't exactly light weight. An ES amp doesn't use these so it could be lighter but one might get a bit carried away with the PSU transformers instead. I'm testing the filament trafo for my DIY BH and it weighs in a 1.9kg but not nearly everybody is going to need 20A for the filaments...

[hirsch]

The 007 Mk2 is more forward sounding then the Mk1 so it apears to be easier to driver but they really aren't.

I wouldn't call it just a more forward sound, although that's part of the issue. The bass, when driven by a BHSE wasn't just reduced, it was gone. As in, where did this system misplace it's balls? Further, the key to the music, the midrange, was muddled and confused relative to the Mark I. I heard about three or four of the Mk II's, and in each case first thought that the system was broken (it was that much worse than the Mk I to me). Only when I used my Mk I did I realize that in each case, the problem was the Mk II headphone. I'm curious to hear one with your mods someday, because as it stands, I'd have a hard time classifying the OII Mk II as a worthwhile headphone. I'm actually understating just how much I disliked it.

[deepak]

Hirsch, do you remember the differences between your old MK1 and the one you got recently? IIRC you said your old O2 MK1 was too polite with your ES-1, is this the case with your new one?

[Anders]

Thanks spritzer, I will try to bend the arcs. I am not negative to the 007 at all, I think it is an excellent headphone and the best I have. Only some minor flaws that could at least party depend on user ignorance. It is not a headphone that is easy to use - a ten page user manual wanted.

I have a 15 W tube amplifier (25 W in pentode mode). It has three huge transformer but the weight is only about 40 pounds. I understand that weight is necessary and positive but I have difficulty grasping that a headphone amplifiers has the double weight. Headamps BH is considerably lighter.

[Anders]

Wow, it helps to bend the arcs! Tighter bass and more presence.

[spritzer]

I wouldn't call it just a more forward sound, although that's part of the issue. The bass, when driven by a BHSE wasn't just reduced, it was gone. As in, where did this system misplace it's balls? Further, the key to the music, the midrange, was muddled and confused relative to the Mark I. I heard about three or four of the Mk II's, and in each case first thought that the system was broken (it was that much worse than the Mk I to me). Only when I used my Mk I did I realize that in each case, the problem was the Mk II headphone. I'm curious to hear one with your mods someday, because as it stands, I'd have a hard time classifying the OII Mk II as a worthwhile headphone. I'm actually understating just how much I disliked it.

I flat out hate the Mk2 is stock form so you are certainly not alone. It's like they didn't even listen to the final product and the distributors all lack the technical knowledge to know what Stax really did so they blame it on burn in...

With my mods (that sounded so much like markl that I threw up a bit in my mouth) they sound basically like a Mk1 but with slightly snappier bass and since they are more forward they engage the listener more then the laid back Mk1. I haven't done a driver swap yet but it looks like Stax messed with the drivers but this will be impossible to test or even see.

I will have to get a second A/Mk2, mod it and send on a trip of the US meets. That will maybe filter the info back to Stax and force them to stop this nonsense.

Thanks spritzer, I will try to bend the arcs. I am not negative to the 007 at all, I think it is an excellent headphone and the best I have. Only some minor flaws that could at least party depend on user ignorance. It is not a headphone that is easy to use - a ten page user manual wanted.

I would start off by bending the earpieces so the bottom of the two earpieces move further apart. Best bet is to bend at the break just above each ear and start off slow.

I have a 15 W tube amplifier (25 W in pentode mode). It has three huge transformer but the weight is only about 40 pounds. I understand that weight is necessary and positive but I have difficulty grasping that a headphone amplifiers has the double weight. Headamps BH is considerably lighter.

As the output power goes up, so does the size of the transformers so 20kg for a 15w amp isn't so bad. Add some chokes and all bets are off.

The old BH wasn't that heavy at about 12kg's but the BHSE has 3 transformers in the PSU and a lot more robust chassis so the weight will go up.

[spritzer]

Wow, it helps to bend the arcs! Tighter bass and more presence.

Sure does...

[Anders]

I am not sure we are talking about the same thing. I bent the metal arc above the headband so the distance between the earcups decreased and the pressure against the ears/head increased (similar on what you do on a Grado). Rotating the earcups is something I have done all the time.

[spritzer]

I am not sure we are talking about the same thing. I bent the metal arc above the headband so the distance between the earcups decreased and the pressure against the ears/head increased (similar on what you do on a Grado). Rotating the earcups is something I have done all the time.

We are talking about the same thing but I just wasn't very clear...

[hirsch]

Hirsch, do you remember the differences between your old MK1 and the one you got recently? IIRC you said your old O2 MK1 was too polite with your ES-1, is this the case with your new one?

My original MK1 was smooth as silk almost all of the time. The problem came when the music that I was listening to wasn't supposed to be smooth as silk. I felt that the headphone was imposing a pleasant, but bland, coloration on what I was hearing. The MKI that I have now seems much more transparent than the last one. It's only polite if the music is polite. A big improvement to me.

[Tachikoma]

Are you sure that wasn't just the pads?

[hirsch]

Are you sure that wasn't just the pads?

I'm not sure about much. All I can say is that I was lukewarm about my original OII, and that it sounded like another OII that I had significant use of (and that one was brand new at the time). About the only thing that I am sure of is that I have a strong preference for the OII that I have now.