The Headcase Stax thread

[HemiSam]

9 hours ago, Laowei said:

Listened with my Yggy and KGST. They are a very pleasant, easy listening and natural sounding pairing. Reminds me of my Bose system in my Caddy ATS-V. Non-fatiguing balanced SQ and can listen for hours. Just no ultimate hi-resolution *pop*, boom and soundstage like its big brothers. Overall, very very nice. 

I don't have that much experience with Stax earspeakers or especially amps. Only using a KGST limits my opinion.

On second listen, I think I can offer a good analogy about the differences in SQ in my rig between the SR-207 and SR-L700.

The SR-207 sounds a little like a vintage alnico paper cone full range loudspeaker (think Fostex or WE 755, not Lowther). Not extended on either frequency extreme, but extremely coherent and natural sounding in the middle meat of the music. Nothing sticks out, and the music just happens. Just slightly lacking in dynamics and details, sins of omission.

In direct A>B the SR-L700 sounds like a 2 way loudspeaker with a Kevlar woofer and metal dome tweeter. More extension on both ends, more apparent detail and *pop* and boom. But lacking that "single voice" the 207 has.

I used the 207 earlier in my system with a DS Gungnir. I retired them to the hall closet thinking they were the weak link runt of the Stax line. Never listened to them with my Yggy until last night. With more use, I just might find them to be more enjoyable than my 700s over a long listening session. And they are lighter and more comfortable too. All in all, I find they are a great bargain and play well for Yggy/KGST owners. Other combos may be SOL.  

Please note that I have not heard a 307,407, 507.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks a bunch, Laowei.  

Great analogies that provide context.  As you know, I'm running with the same chain as yourself at this time Ygg > KGST so it isn't going to get a whole lot better than this in the way of feedback.

 

Does anyone have an opinion on the 202 vs the 207?  There's a 202 combo for sale at a price that's tough to ignore.

 

Cheers,

HS

[HemiSam]

 

double post....sorry about that.  Not sure if it's on my end but it's getting goofy using Google Chrome.

HS

Edited January 29, 2016 by HemiSam

[HemiSam]

9 hours ago, Laowei said:

Listened with my Yggy and KGST. They are a very pleasant, easy listening and natural sounding pairing. Reminds me of my Bose system in my Caddy ATS-V. Non-fatiguing balanced SQ and can listen for hours. Just no ultimate hi-resolution *pop*, boom and soundstage like its big brothers. Overall, very very nice. 

I don't have that much experience with Stax earspeakers or especially amps. Only using a KGST limits my opinion.

On second listen, I think I can offer a good analogy about the differences in SQ in my rig between the SR-207 and SR-L700.

The SR-207 sounds a little like a vintage alnico paper cone full range loudspeaker (think Fostex or WE 755, not Lowther). Not extended on either frequency extreme, but extremely coherent and natural sounding in the middle meat of the music. Nothing sticks out, and the music just happens. Just slightly lacking in dynamics and details, sins of omission.

In direct A>B the SR-L700 sounds like a 2 way loudspeaker with a Kevlar woofer and metal dome tweeter. More extension on both ends, more apparent detail and *pop* and boom. But lacking that "single voice" the 207 has.

I used the 207 earlier in my system with a DS Gungnir. I retired them to the hall closet thinking they were the weak link runt of the Stax line. Never listened to them with my Yggy until last night. With more use, I just might find them to be more enjoyable than my 700s over a long listening session. And they are lighter and more comfortable too. All in all, I find they are a great bargain and play well for Yggy/KGST owners. Other combos may be SOL.  

Please note that I have not heard a 307,407, 507.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks a bunch, Laowei.  

Great analogies that provide context.  As you know, I'm running with the same chain as yourself at this time Ygg > KGST so it isn't going to get a whole lot better than this in the way of feedback.

 

Does anyone have an opinion on the 202 vs the 207?  There's a 202 combo for sale at a price that's tough to ignore.

 

Cheers,

HS

[spritzer]

I always liked the 202 but it's been way too long since I had one for any meaningful comparison.  Going by the basic difference between the x0x and x07 series the 207 would be a bit brighter with a more open top and tighter bass. 

[HemiSam]

Thank you, Birgir.

 

General comment:  grateful to have this place to bounce stuff off of.  I'm finding the Stax thread on the other site is so full of drivel between the few gems that are posted that it's tough to wade through.

Cheers,

HS

[wink]

I really like my SR-202.

The dark side Stax thread is very good for comedy relief.  You just need your senses of humour and sarcasm on full tilt.  

I heartily recommend the thread. Especially after watching an old western called Evil Roy Slade.

 

[Dave R]

Although I've only seen photo's of the SR-X, mk2, and mk3, I wonder if Stax will come out with a new version.

[joehpj]

 

MSB's new amp with 507. We'll see.

[3x0]

On 1/26/2016 at 2:36 PM, DefQon said:

Does your pads have any crease marks?

No crease marks; they're in decent shape besides being stiff. Going for a beeswax-based leather cream to try to make them more supple and improve the sealing since I like to wear them slightly forward on my head for soundstage. Even as-is they slam low and hard out of the BHSE though. Carbon is on my shortlist to try with them.

 

I might also do something about the creaky headband hinges but I think I'm going to leave the earcup screws alone. Since reading posts by Birgir and others about SR-Omega fragility I treat them like precious artifacts and knowing me I'd probably overtighten them and crack the underlying plastic or worse...

[eggil]

12 hours ago, joehpj said:

This advertising belongs at Head-Fi maybe?

MSB's new amp with 507. We'll see.

that 

[spritzer]

I wouldn't use leather cream on the earpads as well...they aren't leather.  They are vinyl so they need some plastic treatment instead. 

[nopants]

Anything you recommend? I found a fresh pair of omega pads and I want to make sure they last

[3x0]

Blargh, I was afraid they were vinyl since that's exactly what they feel like. Could be worse e.g. the poorly-bonded pleather from the HE60s.

 

I guess there's no way to really make them palpably more supple then? Dreaming of SR-007-style lambskin for them...

[spritzer]

There are no products I'd recommend over all.  Most good vinyl re conditioners will work just fine. 

I've thought about making aftermarket earpads so something for the todo list I suppose.  Wouldn't be cheap but the Omega's are worth it. 

 

[HemiSam]

The 007 pads are butter...very nice.

HS

[nopants]

I've had some decent results swapping in 009 pads for the 007, currently evaluating them

[DefQon]

Any modifications to get them to fit on 007?

[Tompoodie]

On 1/28/2016 at 4:43 PM, spritzer said:

One more data point on the 207, to date three of my KGSSHV mini's have been bought by recording studios as the final mix monitors.  I'm not allowed to name the studios but they are...well known...  let's just say that.    Anyway all of them use the 207 for this even though price really wasn't an issue.  Granted they need to take into account just how much abuse they must suffer but primarily it was the sound.  I must say that the measurements Tyll did helped a lot as honestly, how many chains will give you these THD numbers? 

This is at the same time that there is some consensus on HF that the KGSS is super bright and the KGSSHV even more so.  Everybody knows that the KGSS is slightly on the warmer side (due to the third stage lack of CCS which I countered in Tyll's amp) and the KGSSHV is pretty much dead neutral.  If it is bright well then how about looking at the phones or the source?  These amps are wires with gain (and a lot of it at that) so they must naturally be the culprit.  Yeah that makes sense... 

Totally agree that such superlative quality amps are wires with gain but...  something rarely mentioned is the diode rectification effect of the typical wiper blade type pot degrading the sound.  It is rare to see a headphone amp use a stepped attenuator, or optical attenuation of high quality.  I use a top quality stepped attenuator  ($500, and yet a good value) with 5 watt SET amp with custom capacitor with my planar cans.

I am aware that one can turn the volume to 12 oclock on STAX amps and bypass the volume control to use a passive control, but almost no one does that.

The degradation from sound is not much talked about in the headphone community.  Comments?

[spritzer]

Because it isn't real?  First of all, how are you going to hear any meaningful difference in a SET?  They are high distortion/high noise amps by nature so how is the volume control going to change anything with such a flawed circuitry behind it?  Secondly, it is very difficult to compare attenuators in circuit as they are so different. 

I for one will never put steppers in my amps except to clear out those that I already have at hand.  They all go bad with dirty contacts, I've lost count of how many DACT's I've had to take apart and clean over the years.   They also won't last, the plating on the PCB's wears out very quickly.  I was ordering some custom made pots on Monday and they are rated at 50000 rotations, no way the Elma switches can pull that off. 

Then we have stuff like the Penny+Giles RF15 which has been in use for almost 40 years.  They still custom make them if you ask nicely and will outperform any stepper I've come across.   

Also there is no high quality optical attenuation, it simply doesn't exist.  They are all high distortion devices but they sound cool so people settle for that. 

[johnwmclean]

Sure, but pots don’t come anywhere near the channel matching accuracy of a Dact stepper (+/- 0.05%dB). In regards to mechanical life, an RK50 is rated 15,000 cycles and a Dact is 25,000 cycles, 50,000 is extraordinarily good . To the contrary I’ve never had any issue with the dozens of Dacts I’ve used over the years, in use I do dislike the coarse 24 steps, but have become accustomed.

Edited February 4, 2016 by johnwmclean

[Tompoodie]

Spitzer, you are of course absolutely correct about the distortion issue with optical attenuators. My SET amp is rated at 5% distortion, but given the low listening volumes and light load on the amp, I suspect it's probably only 2-3%. Most SETs have distortion of 10% or more and most SET amp manufacturers don't even report their distortion rating!

That said, on a transistor amp or low distortion tube amp, with a high quality stepped attenuator, the difference in detail is audible and meaningful in my opinion versus a wiper blade type pot attenuator. The brand I use is well sealed, so dust is not an issue.

I suspect there is a market for high end amps for cans, whether electrostat or planar magnetic or dynamic, without a volume control so that a passive control can be used. For those who have digital volume control in their DAC absence of the pot volume attenuator would be a plus also.

[nopants]

On 2/3/2016 at 1:04 PM, DefQon said:

Any modifications to get them to fit on 007?

No modifications, they just have to be seated properly so the protective mesh doesn't slip off

[eggil]

There is a market for everything including cables, conditioners and everything people are wiling to pay, whether it works or not.

[spritzer]

Indeed, you can sell people anything.  That's why I like to see the reaction of non-audio folk to some of the utterly retarded crap audiophiles throw about as fact.  Using an amp with 2% distortion is a good example of this, why would anybody do that?  Tyll's KGSS has what, 0.02% through the transducers of a SR-207? 

[n3rdling]

Pfft, we all know that's just 'fake clarity' coming from the Stax system!!!