spritzer Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, I finally got to open up my Christmas gift, the baby Stax, from my now ex-semi-boyfriend. I'm listening to them now and don't much like them: no weight to vocals, saxophones sound like toys, tones are off, but damn, snares and cymbals sound great! They're surprisingly comfy since I expected other, but you have to mess around to get them placed just right to sound okay. I'll play around with them a bit, but so far, I'm not hearing much that would make me want to keep them. You need to run them with the 4.5v PSU as the batteries just can't power them. I haven't spent much time with the SRM-001 variant but with my SR-003 I can get mad bass with an improper fit and when fitted just right they don't lack bass at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiWire Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 But that aforementioned sense of refinement can get a bit boring after a while, the same way I slightly tired of the Orpheus after a while. I'm at that stage now. My ears might just need a period of sandpapering with a pair of Grados so that I can slink back to the Omegas with a sigh of relief. Sorry, what was that? You get tired of your Orpheus? Just kidding - you can get used to anything. I'd love to hear the new SR-007MK2. They're the next logical step from the HP-2, for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 SR-Omega duo! Maybe two of them together can beat the HE90? System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Sorry, what was that? You get tired of your Orpheus? Who doesn't... It's good to get a different perspective from time to time but sinking as low as Grados is simply going too far... SR-Omega duo! Maybe two of them together can beat the HE90? Show off... For me you only need one SR-Ω to completely crush the HE90 and then the SR-007 to surpass the SR-Ω. Just don't let the volume differences fool you. System Does the master clock make a big difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggeh Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 2xwide and 3xhigh stacked rebuilt quads level awesome? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elephas Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 The clocker is a loaner from a local audio shop. They forced me to take it home and try it for a few days. I think I'm going to have to keep it, but I don't want to pay for it. Maybe I can move somewhere far away, like back home to the Florida grasslands with mamma? Based on initial listening with a few songs, one perceived difference is that the clock makes vocals smoother and more fleshed-out. Without the clock, there seems to be more slight "gaps" and "holes" in the vocals. For example, when a singer sings a drawn out, "Aaaaaaahhhh..." extending about four or five seconds, the clock makes her voice sound denser, more realistic, three dimensional and "well-padded." Without the clock the sound is less smooth, slightly thinner, less holographic and a bit more jarring. The difference isn't very large, but I'm afraid of getting used to the clocker and missing it when it's turned off. I think I'm hearing the difference easily with the Aristaeus, HE90 and SR-Omega. At the shop their demo speaker system sounded very, very good, especially when sourced with a dCS Puccini CDP. While it had great soundstaging, imaging, and bass impact, I thought it didn't have the details and sense of intimacy of the Aristaeus + headphones. I've been planning a new speaker system for some time, but got stuck trying to find a triple-duty tube integrated amp for speakers, K1000, and Illusion ESC-1001. The speakers are on hold for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon L Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 I've been planning a new speaker system for some time, but got stuck trying to find a triple-duty tube integrated amp for speakers, K1000, and Illusion ESC-1001. The speakers are on hold for now. As you're probably finding out, once you get used to good electrostat headphones, finding speakers that will satisfy is going to be *very* *very* tough. One impulse will be to get large electrostat speakers and/or electrostat hybrids, but once you introduce the room, low efficiency, weird impedance curves, macrodynamics and bass become much more of a problem for full-sized speakers than headphones. Not to mention extreme hidden costs in terms of capable, humongous amplification. Once you try to stick a dynamic bass woofer to a stat, say good-bye to anything resembling coherency. Even very expensive speakers will immediately let you know the presence of many different drivers and crossovers. The great ones will get close, but never all the way to what a single-driver crossoverless electrostat headphone can do. But single-driver speakers are not the answer, either, b/c unless you're a headphone, single-driver in an actual room has *severe* limitations in frequency extremes. Oooh, I would hate to be in your shoes looking at speakers when you've got HE90 to compare to :'( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkpowder Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 They're going to force you to take home some dCS soon Awesome rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 The clocker is a loaner from a local audio shop. They forced me to take it home and try it for a few days. I think I'm going to have to keep it, but I don't want to pay for it. Maybe I can move somewhere far away, like back home to the Florida grasslands with mamma? Based on initial listening with a few songs, one perceived difference is that the clock makes vocals smoother and more fleshed-out. Without the clock, there seems to be more slight "gaps" and "holes" in the vocals. For example, when a singer sings a drawn out, "Aaaaaaahhhh..." extending about four or five seconds, the clock makes her voice sound denser, more realistic, three dimensional and "well-padded." Without the clock the sound is less smooth, slightly thinner, less holographic and a bit more jarring. The difference isn't very large, but I'm afraid of getting used to the clocker and missing it when it's turned off. I think I'm hearing the difference easily with the Aristaeus, HE90 and SR-Omega. At the shop their demo speaker system sounded very, very good, especially when sourced with a dCS Puccini CDP. While it had great soundstaging, imaging, and bass impact, I thought it didn't have the details and sense of intimacy of the Aristaeus + headphones. I've been planning a new speaker system for some time, but got stuck trying to find a triple-duty tube integrated amp for speakers, K1000, and Illusion ESC-1001. The speakers are on hold for now. I think you need to try out a G-0s or what ever version they are up to now... Finding a speaker rig to surpass these headphones will be very hard indeed. I'm going to start with a modernized Quad ESL57 with completely rebuilt Quad II amps but I can see Sound Lab U-1's or Majestic's in my future. They're going to force you to take home some dCS soon Awesome rig. I've never quite got the fuss about dCS. It always sounds like good digital to me but not much more. It's the same with the EMM gear. All this source talk is pretty bad for my spending habits as my APL hasn't shipped yet and the Meridian G08 is long gone so I'm forced to use my old Rotel RCD-971 and sony DAS-R1... Why did I have to return that Wadia 861 so damn soon....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 As you're probably finding out, once you get used to good electrostat headphones, finding speakers that will satisfy is going to be *very* *very* tough. One impulse will be to get large electrostat speakers and/or electrostat hybrids, but once you introduce the room, low efficiency, weird impedance curves, macrodynamics and bass become much more of a problem for full-sized speakers than headphones. Not to mention extreme hidden costs in terms of capable, humongous amplification. Once you try to stick a dynamic bass woofer to a stat, say good-bye to anything resembling coherency. Even very expensive speakers will immediately let you know the presence of many different drivers and crossovers. The great ones will get close, but never all the way to what a single-driver crossoverless electrostat headphone can do. But single-driver speakers are not the answer, either, b/c unless you're a headphone, single-driver in an actual room has *severe* limitations in frequency extremes. Oooh, I would hate to be in your shoes looking at speakers when you've got HE90 to compare to :'( Just wanted to say this is a very interesting post. Thanks so much for taking the time to write it. It does make me want an OII even worse though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Just wanted to say this is a very interesting post. Thanks so much for taking the time to write it. It does make me want an OII even worse though. I think the only speakers that could come close to the OII's are the Sound Lab U-1 since they are designed from a similar standpoint i.e. build the strongest frame you can with a single radiating area and no crossover. Still they'll never match the astounding detail since they are most likely to be used with tube amps and that involves two transformers, one stepping down the voltage and then another stepping it back up again. After hearing a set of A-1's it's clear that Sound Lab speakers are my ultimate target but settling down with a single set of speakers is just boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiWire Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 I've never quite got the fuss about dCS. It always sounds like good digital to me but not much more. It's the same with the EMM gear. That's exactly the sound I'm looking for... I can't afford APL gear either, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerius Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 I think the only speakers that could come close to the OII's are the Sound Lab U-1 since they are designed from a similar standpoint i.e. build the strongest frame you can with a single radiating area and no crossover. Still they'll never match the astounding detail since they are most likely to be used with tube amps and that involves two transformers, one stepping down the voltage and then another stepping it back up again. The solution of course is to rip out the tranformers in the speakers and build a high voltage tube amp which couples directly to the electrostat panels. Or you could build a transistor amp that runs at around 200V or so and use a transformer with a smaller step-up ratio to drive the speakers. There's a guy in my area who uses the latter approach with great success on his Quad 57's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 That's exactly the sound I'm looking for... I can't afford APL gear either, though. Just buy a used APL 3910 for around 4k$. The former owner of my unit compared it, just before he shipped it off to APL for the newest upgrade, to a dCS P8i and a ARC Ref3 preamp and it was no comparison. The APL walked all over them in every way and the new output stage and DAC are supposed to be a huge leap forward. I WANT MINE NOW!!!! The solution of course is to rip out the tranformers in the speakers and build a high voltage tube amp which couples directly to the electrostat panels. Or you could build a transistor amp that runs at around 200V or so and use a transformer with a smaller step-up ratio to drive the speakers. There's a guy in my area who uses the latter approach with great success on his Quad 57's. A direct drive amp on the cards for me and it can drive my headphones as well. I'll likely start with something similar to the Morgan Jones design based around huge current sources and a 845 outputs. It's a very complex amp and needs specialized tools to test it with voltage well in excess of 1kV but there is nothing better then a direct drive electrostat. A good compromise would be to have a lower ratio transformer built and hooked to the back of a good tube amp. I'd love to see what a BH does to the ESL57... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiWire Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Just buy a used APL 3910 for around 4k$. That's over double what I paid for my new Arcam player, for probably a lot less than double the improvement in sound. I'm most interested in the APL Esoteric X-01, but the tube output stage is a turnoff. Back to Stax - has anybody heard of the Kimik(?) mod for the SRM-007T? I read about it in a magazine review today, but can't find anything on the internet. I'd probably go for the SRM-727II anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomana Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Well, I finally got to open up my Christmas gift, the baby Stax, from my now ex-semi-boyfriend. I'm listening to them now and don't much like them: no weight to vocals, saxophones sound like toys, tones are off, but damn, snares and cymbals sound great! They're surprisingly comfy since I expected other, but you have to mess around to get them placed just right to sound okay. I'll play around with them a bit, but so far, I'm not hearing much that would make me want to keep them. I've been messing around with positioning today. It's a bit tricky, but when you get it right, what a difference! These are starting to grow on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiki Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I'm already starting to plan for what I'm getting for this Christmas (need to save up and budget accordingly). One of my considerations is an electrostatic set-up based on the Stax SR-007A. I currently have a Stello DA100 as my source, but it only has single-ended outputs. My question is, do electrostatic amps require balanced inputs? I see that the KGSS has both balanced and single-ended inputs. Will it be much worse if I use the single-ended one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duggeh Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Electrostatic amps are still inherently balanced in operation. You still get balanced out of them even with a single ended source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 That's over double what I paid for my new Arcam player, for probably a lot less than double the improvement in sound. I'm most interested in the APL Esoteric X-01, but the tube output stage is a turnoff. Back to Stax - has anybody heard of the Kimik(?) mod for the SRM-007T? I read about it in a magazine review today, but can't find anything on the internet. I'd probably go for the SRM-727II anyway... Double... triple... it's only money... I can't see why the tubed output would be a turnoff as the single ended transformer coupled triode is the holy grail of amplification. The cheaper players have a balanced capacitor coupled output stage though I'm not sure if it is SS or based on the ECC99. I've never heard of that mod but there isn't much you can do with the 007t. I've been messing around with positioning today. It's a bit tricky, but when you get it right, what a difference! These are starting to grow on me. They sure are a great little headphone when you get the kinks worked out. Keep us posted I'm already starting to plan for what I'm getting for this Christmas (need to save up and budget accordingly). One of my considerations is an electrostatic set-up based on the Stax SR-007A. I currently have a Stello DA100 as my source, but it only has single-ended outputs. My question is, do electrostatic amps require balanced inputs? I see that the KGSS has both balanced and single-ended inputs. Will it be much worse if I use the single-ended one? Since the output voltage of SE is half that of a comparable balanced output stage you have more range on the volume control but thats all. Since all electrostatic amps are push-pull most can accept XLR input but not all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp11801 Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Even very expensive speakers will immediately let you know the presence of many different drivers and crossovers. The great ones will get close, but never all the way to what a single-driver crossoverless electrostat headphone can do. But single-driver speakers are not the answer, either, b/c unless you're a headphone, single-driver in an actual room has *severe* limitations in frequency extremes. super hemps from Omega Audio are 37hz to 18k I would not call that a severe limitation in the frequency extremes http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/superhemp.html/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp11801 Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I've been messing around with positioning today. It's a bit tricky, but when you get it right, what a difference! These are starting to grow on me. I really want to hear these hopefully they will attend MOA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon L Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 super hemps from Omega Audio are 37hz to 18k I would not call that a severe limitation in the frequency extremes http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/superhemp.html/url] Come on. I like Omega speakers as far as single-driver speakers go, but their spec sheet just says "37Hz to 18K." Is that -3dB point, -6dB point? Don't make me start quoting manufacturer spec sheets, such as 0.00000000000136% distortion.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrion Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I wll only say this about the Super Hemps and that is they go deeper than the other single driver speakers I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Come on. I like Omega speakers as far as single-driver speakers go, but their spec sheet just says "37Hz to 18K." Is that -3dB point, -6dB point? Don't make me start quoting manufacturer spec sheets, such as 0.00000000000136% distortion.. -12dB most likely. Since this is the Stax thread what about the He90 specs, 10-100,000Hz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepak Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Qualia 010- 5-120000 Hz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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