The Headcase Stax thread

[Looser101]

Who cares about SR-404 versus SR-404LE?

We want SR-404LE versus Airbow SR-SC1!

One interesting thing about the LE are the earpads. They look a lot like the ones used on the prototype set featured in many brochures back in '79. Same slim, square shape and the seams are in the same places.

The earpads are quite a bit thinner then the normal 404 pads and that makes them a bit less comfortable for me with my rather large ears. It also appears to solve the midrange etch issue but they are still very bright. This might actually be a Lambda that I'll keep... \

Sure looks that way. It's an SR-202 and it's gone through hell, the arc was broken in a few places and held together by tape and the hinges to attach the housings were broken so the owner just used some screws...

...and we are still waiting. I know that you ordered the LE!!!!!

You guys are tough customers. I'm new to the whole electrostatic scene so take my impressions for what they are.

Rig: Cambridge Audio 840C > Parasound D/AC-1100HD > Stax SRM-1/MK-2 Professional > Stax SR-404 Limited Edition / Airbow SC-1

Preamble: Recently I became more curious about Electrostatics (and it's all your fault, all of you!). I had heard them briefly in meet conditions, and never really grasped their goodness. So I asked a friend if I could borrow his Airbow rig for some extended listening at home. This extended session impressed me enough to pursue a Stax rig. The sound was smooth and effortless and I could listen to it for hours. I decided to purchase the 404LE used, with very low hours, and hoped for the best. Happy with that decision, I then bought an SRM1/MK2.

Sound: Both headphones are obviously from the same family. The sound is similar with a "couple" salient differences. The 404LE is brighter than the SC1 and hence can sound less smooth and forgiving. The other side of the coin is that the LE is more transparent. The LE also has a bit more bass quantity and impact. Soundstage depth is also deeper on the LE but the difference is small.

Conclusion: If I wanted a headphone I could listen to all day the advantage would go to the Airbow SC-1. Technically, the SR-404LE is a better headphone. I would like to tone down the highs a bit with some damping, but that may cause other issues; hopefully, I will only have to give up a bit of transparency to gain some listening comfort during longer listening sessions.

[spritzer]

I've spent the day breaking open some SRD boxes to see if my PCB will fit. It looks like I can fit it in the SRD-5 but not the 6 since the box isn't tall enough. It's also quite clear that they all used different transformers with the 7's being quite a bit bigger.

The LE's sound like a good compliment to the SR-007, i'm seriously considering putting down for the next he60 that shows up, but the prices are too insane to consider that seriously. I know that the T1 is not a great match for the O2, especially considering that past 9 o'clock it becomes ever so slightly edgy and loses focus, but goddamn the O2s are just too polite for me in the treble region. SR-404LTD or HE60? The answer is probably SR-Omega.

The Lambdas are all a bit bright so they would work but the SR-Omega is your best bet.

You guys are tough customers.

This is news to me...

[Deadneddz]

The Lambdas are all a bit bright so they would work but the SR-Omega is your best bet.

I have listened to the SR-Omega and its very special, but that $3500.00 market price is just too much and the reliability of the drivers is another issue. The O2 is pretty much perfect for me in all aspects except that its treble reponse is too polite with the T1. I also cannot stand the fussy coupling(rotating earcups). Im going to go through with the BHSE because im highly curious as to how they will transform the phones im hearing now. I did listen to the BHSE at Canjam but not with my source and definately not in a quite environment for an extended period of time.

Up-front immediacy is tricky for me. Its usually a trade off between excitement and fatigue, and I have yet to really figure out if that sound is for me or not.

[cetoole]

The SR007mk1 treble is great, its just the fart which gets me. A few other minor things I would change, but the fart is by far the biggest. Need moar better amps now.

[spritzer]

Just put in a port, that takes care of the fart...

[Torpedo]

Just put in a port, that takes care of the fart...

just the noise, but not the smell

[mypasswordis]

You guys are tough customers. I'm new to the whole electrostatic scene so take my impressions for what they are.

Rig: Cambridge Audio 840C > Parasound D/AC-1100HD > Stax SRM-1/MK-2 Professional > Stax SR-404 Limited Edition / Airbow SC-1

Preamble: Recently I became more curious about Electrostatics (and it's all your fault, all of you!). I had heard them briefly in meet conditions, and never really grasped their goodness. So I asked a friend if I could borrow his Airbow rig for some extended listening at home. This extended session impressed me enough to pursue a Stax rig. The sound was smooth and effortless and I could listen to it for hours. I decided to purchase the 404LE used, with very low hours, and hoped for the best. Happy with that decision, I then bought an SRM1/MK2.

Sound: Both headphones are obviously from the same family. The sound is similar with a "couple" salient differences. The 404LE is brighter than the SC1 and hence can sound less smooth and forgiving. The other side of the coin is that the LE is more transparent. The LE also has a bit more bass quantity and impact. Soundstage depth is also deeper on the LE but the difference is small.

Conclusion: If I wanted a headphone I could listen to all day the advantage would go to the Airbow SC-1. Technically, the SR-404LE is a better headphone. I would like to tone down the highs a bit with some damping, but that may cause other issues; hopefully, I will only have to give up a bit of transparency to gain some listening comfort during longer listening sessions.

Definitely a much appreciated comparison. Although, just wondering, how did you acquire an Airbow? Through some Japanese auction through some deputy service?

Edit 2:

Reading comprehension fail. You borrowed it from a friend, nvm.

Since I'm in the camp that doesn't mind my treble a little hot, the 404 LE might just be the headphone I'm looking for, depending on how hard it is to find an Airbow.

Edit:

The SR007mk1 treble is great

:o:o

[spritzer]

:o:o

Yup, "hey look at me" treble is just annoying...

[mypasswordis]

Yup, "hey look at me" treble is just annoying...

I know how you feel about it, Birgir. But at some point in time, Colin actually agreed with me about the SR007 being somewhat dark. I agree that "hey look at me" treble is obnoxious, but I guess I just have more tolerance for treble. I wouldn't mind having an SR007, though... just would mean I'd have to bring the treble up a bit somewhere else in the audio chain.

[cetoole]

Yeah, well, you can chalk that up to meet impressions v. owning a set for a month. Also, the specific case I remember where I was comparing the ESP950 and SR007, it was a mk2 SR007. Everything else was just listening to someone's rig as a complete unknown, except for the music.

[deepak]

The SR-007 mk1 isn't dark on the Blue Hawaii. Very straight forward presentation.

[Deadneddz]

Well thats good to hear Deepak:). This is really the first time i've experienced such sheer transparency and yet have to struggle to listen at the same time. The only quirk I have with the treble on the O2s is that it leads me to concentrate too much into analyzing the sound of the phones as a whole. What I mean by this is that the detail this phone pulls out really makes me try too hard to hear and feel whats going on at the upper end. Although I can clearly hear the finest textures and nuances, its not enjoyable having to "aurally scrutinize" just to try and feel whats going on at that upper end. Its all there, I just cannot hear it loudly enough. I think that the reason why it bothers me so much, is that all frequency aspects of the O2s are so closely tied together that even the small imbalance causes too much of a distraction from the picture as a whole.

The treble response is kind of sitting there deep in the soundstage, and it refuses to walk up and enter the performance, and that...I find a little annoying. Its like while the show is going on, theres a crucial member of the cast that is going along but farther away and not in the spot light with the rest of the cast. I find myself watching the cast, but batting my eyes constantly at that one member that is out of place. I dont have the BHSE yet, so my opinions might change when I have better amplification. I want neutrality and so far, this is a form of coloration for me.

[catscratch]

You're hearing an underdriven O2 with an amp that doesn't have the guts to drive it properly. It's not that dark even with a 717. Though to be fair, its treble isn't emphasized in any way to begin with and if you listen at lower volumes then yes, it can sound dark. Crank it and it sounds balanced. Basic Fletcher-Munson curves. But if you have an amp that's too weak cranking isn't going to do much except for compressing the dynamic range.

The O2 can sound bright to the point of piercing if you have a bright source. You can have two sources that sound only slightly different with most rigs, but on the O2 they will sound nothing alike. The O2 blows the difference between sources wide open and small sonic nuances become massive sonic problems. It's absurd - and at times frustrating - how revealing the O2 really is, even if its tonal balance doesn't make it seem like it at first - at least not in ears that are conditioned to equate brightness with transparency (and mine were a long time ago, now I know better).

Let's just say that I understand source swapping binges and DAC obsessions a lot better now that I've lived with the O2 for a good while.

[Quagor]

My 717 still doesn't have enough juice to push the O2s, certainly compression hits before the response goes flat, catscractch's observations on Fletcher-Munson curves, seem to hold up until that point . I also had similar issues with an interest in artificial brightness to start with as well though.

[Voltron]

i had a dream last night that i bought Birgir's T2 and was disappointed at the sound i got when i plugged my speakers into it.

[spritzer]

Other then the midrange, the T2 isn't really impressive. Well there is the sheer size of this thing too... I've been using for most of the weekend driving the SR-404LE and the Lambda is really growing on me. I sure hope I have the strength not to sell it since a unit with this low a S/N will be worth quite a bit in the future...

[Voltron]

Other then the midrange, the T2 isn't really impressive.

What do you mean by this? It lacks extension up and down but the mids sound nice? Just curious, as someone who was vying for one recently, considering taking advantage of your weakness, should it arise, and planning to have the DIYT2 built at some point.

[Hopstretch]

Yeah, WTF?

[spritzer]

The midrange is a bit prominent but other then that it is ruler flat neutrality to my ears i.e. unimpressive. The slight lack of bass heft works in favor of those phones which are a bit loose in the bass in the first place (Lambdas and probably the SR-Omega as well). So it doesn't suck, far from it.

[Sherwood]

Not to split hairs, but isn't "unimpressive" sound one of the marks of an "impressive" amp? No "hey look at me" frequencies?

[Voltron]

The midrange is a bit prominent but other then that it is ruler flat neutrality to my ears i.e. unimpressive. The slight lack of bass heft works in favor of those phones which are a bit loose in the bass in the first place (Lambdas and probably the SR-Omega as well). So it doesn't suck, far from it.

I actually wrote out effectively your first sentence, which is what I guessed you meant, but then decided against posting that in favor of the smart-assy version.

[Voltron]

Not to split hairs, but isn't "unimpressive" sound one of the marks of an "impressive" amp? No "hey look at me" frequencies?

I think that is exactly what he said.

[Sherwood]

Alright, I can see how that's the case. My bad, play on.

[spritzer]

I actually wrote out effectively your first sentence, which is what I guessed you meant, but then decided against posting that in favor of the smart-assy version.

[Deadneddz]

Quick question for the Stax HCs,

Im trying to identify these headphones, are these the Stax Lambda Signatures?