The Headcase Stax thread

[n_maher]

Now you tell me. So what am I going to do with all these 5751, ECC83 and 6SN7 tubes?

Feel free to send the 6SN7s my way.

Otherwise any competent DIY'er can build you a reliable 7N7 adadpter.

[Elephas]

Feel free to send the 6SN7s my way.

OK! By your command. Let's see, you can send me a ThinkPad X200 or X300 for cheap, too, I'm too weak to lift that T61p.

I did get a bit carried away with acquiring 6SN7, and the only amp I have that uses them is the ES-1. When using two 5751 in the 1st gain stage, which I'm probably going to do permanently, that means I only need one pair of 6SN7 in the second gain position. For some reason I never liked using 6SN7 in both the first and second positions, I prefer either 5751 or 2C51 in the first.

Rihanna's voice in "Take A Bow" is sounding particularly sexy. I'm pretty sure it is the 5751 and O2Mk2 that's doing it.

[spritzer]

Now you tell me. So what am I going to do with all these 5751, ECC83 and 6SN7 tubes?

But, at least I can use the 5751 or ECC83 in the Aristaeus too. Double duty is good.

I've read about substituting 7N7 for 6SN7 with an adapter, but there doesn't seem to be many 7N7 types. Also, I'm scared to use a 3rd party adapter in the ES-1 and then having something break, it'll complicate things even though I'll probably find someone local to fix it.

Yes, I paid way too much for those SP adapters, but it's all right, at least if something goes wrong SP can't blame something else.

So, can the BHSE with only four tubes be better than the ES-1 with eight or the A-10 with nine?

Since your ES-1 is all p-p (well is should be but the "artistic" pictures Mikhail supplied it could be anything) then I'd just have some local technician swap out the octal sockets for some mil-spec teflon loctal units. The 7n7's were never made in the same numbers as the 6SN7 cousins but there is plenty of choice and they are dirt cheap, even from reliable sellers.

Damn all this ES-1 talk has made want to begin work on the DIY version...

8 tubes is the magic number I've found

It's a good thing I have all these 9 pin PCB sockets on the way...

[Dreadhead]

OK! By your command. Let's see, you can send me a ThinkPad X200 or X300 for cheap, too, I'm too weak to lift that T61p.

I did get a bit carried away with acquiring 6SN7, and the only amp I have that uses them is the ES-1. When using two 5751 in the 1st gain stage, which I'm probably going to do permanently, that means I only need one pair of 6SN7 in the second gain position. For some reason I never liked using 6SN7 in both the first and second positions, I prefer either 5751 or 2C51 in the first.

Rihanna's voice in "Take A Bow" is sounding particularly sexy. I'm pretty sure it is the 5751 and O2Mk2 that's doing it.

Keep your dirty elephantine trunk and mind off my countrywoman. Bajan's unite !

[guzziguy]

The 7n7's were never made in the same numbers as the 6SN7 cousins but there is plenty of choice and they are dirt cheap, even from reliable sellers.

My understanding is that there are few choices, as the vast majority of 7n7's were made by Sylvania, no matter how they were labeled. The good news is that you are right in that they are dirt cheap, they are plentiful and, even better, sound great. One of my favorite driver tubes for the SP Extreme is a Sylvania tall bottle 7n7.

[spritzer]

I could have swore that there was more choice then Sylvania but it was their tube so you are probably right. It will be nice to have a quad of 7n7's in an ES-1 or perhaps a pair of ECC99's and a pair of 7n7's.... Now I've started to wonder if a smaller ES-1 would work with 6S4A's for output and ECC99's for the first two stages...

[guzziguy]

I could have swore that there was more choice then Sylvania but it was their tube so you are probably right. It will be nice to have a quad of 7n7's in an ES-1 or perhaps a pair of ECC99's and a pair of 7n7's.... Now I've started to wonder if a smaller ES-1 would work with 6S4A's for output and ECC99's for the first two stages...

Maybe you should call up Singlepower and discuss it with Mikhail?

[Deadneddz]

When you guys reference EL34 XF2/XF1's for the Blue Hawaii do you guys mean these? NOS Mullard EL34 EL-34 Tubes xf1 xf2 xf3 xf4 Quad Pair

Or are there specific EL34 XF2/XF1s?

Im assuming they do not make current production XF2/XF1s, but they do make current production EL34s like the ones Nate had on the BHSE at the recent meet. The prices of these NOS tubes are out of control though.

[spritzer]

Maybe you should call up Singlepower and discuss it with Mikhail?

I'd rather call Ray and that says a lot!! It should be possible though to make a very cheap ES-1 with normal production tubes and 6S4A's on the output and modest quality parts (read better then the crap Mikhail used).

When you guys reference EL34 XF2/XF1's for the Blue Hawaii do you guys mean these? NOS Mullard EL34 EL-34 Tubes xf1 xf2 xf3 xf4 Quad Pair

Or are there specific EL34 XF2/XF1s?

Im assuming they do not make current production XF2/XF1s, but they do make current production EL34s like the ones Nate had on the BHSE at the recent meet. The prices of these NOS tubes are out of control though.

The XF classes indicate when the tubes were made and what construction technique. As time wore on they made the tubes cheaper and cheaper to make (crimped plates instead of welding etc.) and that's reflected in the sound. Most of the Mullard "clones" copy the XF4 which wasn't a bad tube but not up to the standards of the old ones.

Today there are some good alternatives but I've been out of the loop for some years. I always liked the SED tubes and there is some uber version of that out now but very expensive. The amp will come with a set of the new production Mullards so that should be enough for most.

[Deadneddz]

Ahh i see..so welded plates as opposed to plates that are crimped or tabbed. Thanks, this will help me to identify the different tubes. Wish there was a way to get the nicer made old models for cheaper.

One quick question, does the BHSE require the four tubes to have matched cathode current?

[spritzer]

There are other differences but the welded plates are easy to spot. The numbers are also etched into the glass near the bottom of the tube along with the production date (in code).

The BH only needs matched pair but the better matching you can get, the better. As Al will tell you, don't plug in any tubes you bought off ebay into the amp until they've at least been tested on a tube checker (measures shorts and basic emissions) or a full blown tester.

[Elephas]

Yes, it is very, very dangerous to buy tubes off eBay, or anywhere else for that matter! The best thing to do is not buy any tubes at all!

Go solid state! Cool-running, no changing tubes, no hassle! Yay solid-state!

If you really really must (think it over first, and then thing again, please) buy tubes, buy the new-production tubes. Don't buy or bid on any old EL34 tubes, especially Mullard xf1, xf2 or metal base types! The new-production tubes come with warranties! Mullard-brand is even available, they look great with clean crisp print and new shiny pins, much better than those dirty-looking old tubes with rubbed off printing!

(I think I just used up my 2009 allocation of exclamation marks. Only capable of whispering from now on.)

[Dusty Chalk]

Have you tried any of the new production tubes yourself? Some of them are really good.

[Tachikoma]

Yahoo!???

The SR-404 Limited is available now.

[Icarium]

Now you tell me. So what am I going to do with all these 5751, ECC83 and 6SN7 tubes?

But, at least I can use the 5751 or ECC83 in the Aristaeus too. Double duty is good.

I've read about substituting 7N7 for 6SN7 with an adapter, but there doesn't seem to be many 7N7 types. Also, I'm scared to use a 3rd party adapter in the ES-1 and then having something break, it'll complicate things even though I'll probably find someone local to fix it.

Yes, I paid way too much for those SP adapters, but it's all right, at least if something goes wrong SP can't blame something else.

So, can the BHSE with only four tubes be better than the ES-1 with eight or the A-10 with nine?

I could use some 6sn7s as well For my balancing act driver tube needs.. ugh nate I forgot to mail out your check. I'll get on that tomorrow... unless I fucking forget.

[Elephas]

Have you tried any of the new production tubes yourself? Some of them are really good.

That could be true. I've only tried a few types of new production tubes, Electro-Harmonix, JJ, Mullard-brand, Groove Tubes, mainly 12AX7 and EL34. I haven't had good results with any of them.

There are a lot more available. I'm curious about the Shuguang special Treasure series, but haven't gotten around to trying some yet. I'm hopeful they're good but I wouldn't be too disappointed if they're not. The old tubes are hard to beat. Many of the less in-demand ones, and therefore less expensive, can be quite good. Those are really great values.

[spritzer]

Those tubes would be only too cool on a black BHSE.

[Dusty Chalk]

Hot.

[pabbi1]

There are other differences but the welded plates are easy to spot. The numbers are also etched into the glass near the bottom of the tube along with the production date (in code).

The BH only needs matched pair but the better matching you can get, the better. As Al will tell you, don't plug in any tubes you bought off ebay into the amp until they've at least been tested on a tube checker (measures shorts and basic emissions) or a full blown tester.

No shit, though mine never burned anything up, it just wouldn't bring up the entire channel with the not-so-well-matched el34 (even though they were supposedly matched xf2).

The JJ are really well matched, and what I would use as a baseline tube that works, and is OK, but lowest common denominator. The SED are clearly a step up, then xf4 a step up again. My best experience is with the xf2 (and I have a group of 7 FS "elsewhere", including one matched quad, as Marc can attest), and a matched quad in the BH currently (also fs elsewhere). I also tried the JJ kt77, which just yielded wild offset numbers, so, the experience was under 5 minutes. Could well be the fauxed channel as she sits now, but the old circuit seems to not like that tube.

I just got tired of the el34 Dragon Chase, so I'm going to a circuit with 6s4a, where I bought my last batch of 20 NOS for $16, shipped. Even using them paralleled (x8), it is a fraction of what even the shit el34 sell for.

[mypasswordis]

Those tubes would be only too cool on a black BHSE.

On top of that, might as well stick some Black Gates in there. Everything could use a healthy dose of moar Black Gates.

pabbi (and Birgir), how's the prototyping coming along for the Poor Man's amp?

[Dusty Chalk]

Someone wanna design me a KT66 amp? It's gorgeous.

I think I actually have a 6CA7 amp...Nope, that would be 6CG7...never mind...someone wanna design me a 6CA7/EL34 amp?

That could be true. I've only tried a few types of new production tubes, Electro-Harmonix, JJ, Mullard-brand, Groove Tubes, mainly 12AX7 and EL34. I haven't had good results with any of them.

For 12AX7, try the Sovtek 12AX7LPS and/or the Ei Elite 12AX7EG. I don't do EL34, otherwise I'd give some advice there.

Try some of the advice I received here (some of the advice is a bit old, though, as the thread is a couple years old at this point).

Edited April 18, 2009 by Dusty Chalk

[Elephas]

Thanks for the link.

I think the 12AX7 in the Aristaeus affect the sound more than the ECL86. With this amp, I can understand why some people become very obsessive about preamp tubes.

I also think the first two gain stages in the ES-1 affect the sound more than the power tubes. I have the ECC1, 2C51 and 5687 adapters, so I can use those as well as 6SN7 and 6BL7. With the Sylvania 5751, I think I've gotten to a point where the O2Mk1 and O2Mk2 are as good as they're ever going to be in my current system. I don't doubt that they can get better, but I don't think that any improvement will be a large one.

Is this the definition of "done"? Please, please, tell me I'm done, finished, zip, zilch, nada, the end, bye-bye!

[spritzer]

I just got tired of the el34 Dragon Chase, so I'm going to a circuit with 6s4a, where I bought my last batch of 20 NOS for $16, shipped. Even using them paralleled (x8), it is a fraction of what even the shit el34 sell for.

Just get XF2's and the chase is over. It's a very expensive retirement though...

On top of that, might as well stick some Black Gates in there. Everything could use a healthy dose of moar Black Gates.

The WKZ Black-Gates are unobtainable now except used at very high prices so we have to settle for Mundorf, Jensen etc. I'd love to get some Elna Cerafines but they have been long out of production.

pabbi (and Birgir), how's the prototyping coming along for the Poor Man's amp?

The PSU works after some issues (mine is just about ready for testing) but there are some issues with the amp sections. Alex is on it though.

Someone wanna design me a KT66 amp? It's gorgeous.

You can just get a set of Quad II monoblocks, a pair of KT66 in each.

I think I actually have a 6CA7 amp...Nope, that would be 6CG7...never mind...someone wanna design me a 6CA7/EL34 amp?For 12AX7, try the Sovtek 12AX7LPS and/or the Ei Elite 12AX7EG. I don't do EL34, otherwise I'd give some advice there.

The EL34 and the 6CA7 are the same tube more or less. The 6CA7 is slightly beefed up version but they are identical in every way but not called the same name due to copyright issues at the time. This is not to be confused with the 6AC7 tube...

[pabbi1]

Just get XF2's and the chase is over. It's a very expensive retirement though...

Yeah, I have the two matched quads, and the 3 spares, which was about $600 all in. May just recase the BH, fix the stinking high bias kickout on the right channel, then shootout with Vulcan and the Poor Man's amp (both 6s4a based). Marc has been forward thinking enough to allow Vulcan to use el34, so, if the parallel 6s4a doesn't have enough umpf, well, a another version may be in order. Or, may just use add the new psu(s) to BH for a little extra power reserve. No freaking shortage of 'opportunities'.

No illusions about the Poor Man's (codename Warthog), but will be curious exactly what % performance of the top flyers can be delivered for $300 in parts, with $4 tubes, and easy enough for ANY DIYer to build. Once the circuit is stable, seriously, it is a 10 hour build, plus casing.

OHHHH - and for those of you wanting a true upgrade Stax socket, Marky-Marc has delivered. End of discussion.

[mypasswordis]

The PSU works after some issues (mine is just about ready for testing) but there are some issues with the amp sections. Alex is on it though.

Cool, sounds like it's really coming along.

No illusions about the Poor Man's (codename Warthog), but will be curious exactly what % performance of the top flyers can be delivered for $300 in parts, with $4 tubes, and easy enough for ANY DIYer to build. Once the circuit is stable, seriously, it is a 10 hour build, plus casing.

Not making any references to a certain RSA amp, are you? And shouldn't this be better?