The Headcase Stax thread

[luvdunhill]

A circular driver has an equal stretch pattern over its surface on each excursion, a square one does not, it will pinch around the corners. Ever see a square cone on a coil driver?

doesn't the center stretch more than the sides, as it travels further?

[Duggeh]

No, the tensile strength of the material is uniform, as is the degree of tension that is over it after it is clamped into the assembly. The centre moves further outwards because its excursion is the accumulation of each degree of excursion per unit of radius. The degree of stretch is the same though, on any part of the diaphragm compared to another, as it is determined by the relationship between the tensile strength & tension of clamp and the bias voltage & driving force. Arcing occurs when the degree of driving force applied overcomes the force of the diaphragms tension to a degree whereby the total excursion bridges the spacing between the stator and the diaphragm to the point where energy is able to cross the remaining distance. The result is that energy from the biasing voltage bridges the air gap that remains and transfers to the diaphragm where it does not belong. Extreme or repeated instances of this cause a breakdown in the integrity of the diaphragm.

[wavoman]

The 404 sucks to my ears (I've had 9 new units here) ...

Have you A/B'd 404 vs Lambda Sig with a KGSS? Yea, your 007a's sounded better than both no doubt about that, an easy conclusion I made in an instant, but that's not my point. My point is: I expected the Lambda Sigs to sound better than the 404s and they did not. Maybe the used Lambda Sigs I got are damaged. I should send them for repair?

On the secondary issue in this thread, "size matters". HPs have smaller mass to move than speakers do so they should have better transient response and they do, no doubt. Speakers move more air so in theory have deeper base, but the chambers on HPs can compensate for that so it could be a tie, although edge in bass goes to top-end speakers. HPs cannot even play in the same league as good speakers for soundstage height and depth, although with the right cross-feed could win on width. As for detail and separation, speakers can have more drivers, so they could win, but managing those multiple drivers is tricky so in fact HPs often win this one, but not always.

Speakers are more comfortable on the head since they have a Newton value of 0. HPs take less floorspace. Surround sound with speakers is a solved problem, but still a work-in-progress for HPs. The best HPs cost a lot less than the best speakers, and can be driven with smaller amps. High end HP cables cost less than high end speaker cables, although some vendors are trying to change that. In theory you can trip over long HP cables and fall, I have not seen that actually happen, but I have seen an audiophile trip over his speaker wires (about as thick as a gas pump hose) and crack his head.

My $200K/rig audiophile non-HP "friends" are totally hung up on soundstage and speak little of detail and separation. And never of saving money.

[faust3d]

Faust3D - love your avatar - I had the clear vinyl version of that album many long years ago and now only have the Wumme set. Groundbreaking band!

Thanks, Faust is one of my favorite krautrock bands.

[faust3d]

Still like the 404's better. I know that's not possible, but I hear what I hear.

I also liked SR-404/303 better than Lambda Signatures, I do like my LNS better than all other Lambdas.

[spritzer]

I had the HE90 and all of the Sigmas which will give you an expansive soundstage (washed out to my ears thought the Sigma 404 is the best of the lot) yet I still prefer the more controlled soundstage of the Omegas and ESL's that beam the sound to your head. The soundstage should be large if the recording was mixed like that and not all the time. I'm listening to some Icelandic Best of CD now which covers the last 50years of our recorded history and some songs have a tiny soundstage and on some it is fucking huge. The Omegas portray all of this with ease even when fed by something as non high end as the stock Shigaclone transport though the DAC1.

Have you A/B'd 404 vs Lambda Sig with a KGSS? Yea, your 007a's sounded better than both no doubt about that, an easy conclusion I made in an instant, but that's not my point. My point is: I expected the Lambda Sigs to sound better than the 404s and they did not. Maybe the used Lambda Sigs I got are damaged. I should send them for repair?

Better is a tough word to use here as the 404 does do some things better then the Signatures but that blasted upper midrange coloration makes them unusable to me. The Signatures are more balanced over all though they do have some of the midrange etch but it is different.

I have compared them on a KGSS (my DIY one) but it was a few years ago and the amp has been scrapped for parts a long time ago.

There is no way of repairing the Signatures since there are no spare parts available. If you were to send them to Stax, they would just fit them with 404 drivers and send them back to you. You could send them to somebody who has a Signature and ask them to compare sets side by side. One of the dark sides of vintage Stax phones is that they aren't always what they seem. If the drivers have been replaced or the phones tinkered with in any way it is often very tough to tell. If this set has copper colored stators then the drivers should be stock.

[KTC]

Unfortunately, you will soon destroy your headphones. This is inevitable. All I suggest you do is send them to me, and I will take care of them for you.

Ah, a philantropist. Such a caring forum, I'm so glad I joined.

[Elephas]

Ahem.

Has anyone compared the Stax SR-007 with the SR-007Mk2?

What do you think about the difference?

Is it OK if I like the SR-007 more than the Mk2?

(I don't usually place the headphones there, it's just for the photo. The stand is too short so the headphone is slanted.)

[wrecked_porsche]

So, now even you have joined the "mk1 is better than the mk2" camp? Wow...

You were one of the ones who preferred the mk2 right?

Care to give some new, updated impressions now?

[Elephas]

So, now even you have joined the "mk1 is better than the mk2" camp? Wow...

You were one of the ones who preferred the mk2 right?

You have no proof.

Care to give some new, updated impressions now?

The main difference between the ES-1 and the Aristaeus, when driving the O2Mk1 and O2Mk2, is dynamics. The ES-1 has greater dynamics and makes the O2Mk1 sound brighter, more open, and more vigorous and energetic. Driven by the Aristaeus, the O2Mk1 is comparatively sleepy, dark and flat-sounding.

I still prefer the O2Mk2 over the O2Mk1 when using the Aristaeus. The Mk2's more forward midrange and greater mid-bass quantity makes it more involving and more dynamic than the Mk1.

But with the ES-1's greater dynamics, the Mk1 is more involving while also being more tonally balanced. The Mk2 also sounds good driven by the ES-1, but I think it's mid-bass quantity has comparatively too much emphasis. I prefer the Mk1's "formula" of tonality and dynamics and its more laid-back midrange, which seems to me more natural-sounding than the Mk2's forward midrange.

I think dynamics is the biggest difference between the ES-1 and Aristaeus. I also think the ES-1 has better details and a larger soundstage.

[spritzer]

I do seem to recall somebody talking about something similar but I'm not sure who...

[wrecked_porsche]

@spritzer, "he" says we have no proof...

@Baby Elephant, thank you for that updated impressions about their differences...

[GPH]

Group buy members who purchase the Jade in the months of November and December - $1499.00

If you where asleep at the wheel and suddenly woke up and said, "Damn, I totally forgot", can get them in January - $1599.00

After that, regular MSRP will be $1799.00

What do you guys think about the pricing?

At 1000$, I was thinking of trying them for 30 days, but 1500$ is a little too much IMO for hand-made Chinese headphones with reliability problems in the past. Meet impressions aren't too favorable also, but there's a small group of people on H-F who praise them a lot. We'll see what what the verdict is when more people will have them.

[Torpedo]

I have serious doubts to try the highest Staxes at their second hand prices, how this guy thinks people can get interested for DIYer level electrostats at that price? I'm sure he'll get many orders anyway. It just will show how a well fueled audio machinery works :palm::palm:

[wrecked_porsche]

The phrase that springs to mind is " All aboard the hype train!".

Yeah, he'd probably get a bucket load of curious buyers anyway.

[deepak]

What do you guys think about the pricing?

At 1000$, I was thinking of trying them for 30 days, but 1500$ is a little too much IMO for hand-made Chinese headphones with reliability problems in the past. Meet impressions aren't too favorable also, but there's a small group of people on H-F who praise them a lot. We'll see what what the verdict is when more people will have them.

I thought $1000 was a fair price for them even with the reliability issues. Given the delicate nature of the drivers I'd want to be sure there is long term track reliability record.

I also don't think one year warranty is all that great on a flagship product (a flagship that now costs $1500-1800). With a US bought Stax system you're getting two years (even with the low end models).

I have serious doubts to try the highest Staxes at their second hand prices, how this guy thinks people can get interested for DIYer level electrostats at that price? I'm sure he'll get many orders anyway. It just will show how a well fueled audio machinery works :palm::palm:

Leave it to Headfi to starting fotms, I'm glad we don't have that here

[spritzer]

1800$ is on the insane side of the spectrum but one has to wonder how much the "distributor" is marking them up. We all know how much Yama's charges on every Stax sold in the US... There is massive hype for these so my guess is that this more of a "what the market will take" type of pricing rather then in any connection to what it costs to produce them.

[Elephas]

I think the Jade's $1500 intro price and $1800 regular price is a bit high, given several factors such as lack of company history, small size of He Audio, country of origin, lack of info on the Head Direct website, lack of He Audio info, only one distributor, etc.

I don't want to use an adapter. Why doesn't He Audio just terminate the Jade with a Stax 5-pin plug and make it standard Stax Pro voltage? Especially if there's no He Audio matching amp.

Also, the long public "beta" development period and the many changes didn't increase my confidence in Mr. He and He Audio.

[wrecked_porsche]

Are you gonna bite the bullet and get yourself a pair?

[spritzer]

The decision to stick with the Neutrik connector is absurd since they are already having a Stax connector custom made for the adapter. If they do decide to release a stat' amp then they will most likely have a HE centric design while the Little Dot amp will have a Stax socket an be probably a lot cheaper to boot.

I won't buy a set but a fellow Stax nut told he would and he wants me to recable it for him and see if I can make it better in any way. If it goes through you can expect photos of the Jade gutted sometime in the new year.

[tyrion]

I really enjoyed the 1.2's when I heard them. I preferred them to the O2 mkii out of the 007t by a longshot. I thought that they would be where the stat experiment would end for me but at $1500 I'm not so sure. I have nam's 1.2b arriving this week as well as Vicki's O2 mki to compare. I will also hear the Jade in a couple of weeks so I guess I will reserve judgment until then. At $1800 I'm not sure I would even consider the possibility.

[Elephas]

I'm a bit tempted by the $1499 intro price, which will make selling it easier after it goes up to the regular $1799 price. But I don't like having to use an adapter.

I think the pricing strategy is a bit risky. After it is at $1799, they can't adjust it downward during 2009 if demand is low without making the early buyers angry. If demand at the regular price is very low, He Audio might have to endure months of very slow sales. If several early buyer reviews during Dec. 2008 and Jan-Feb 2009 are not good...

One thing He Audio could do is make changes to the Jade during 2009 and therefore have the ability to be more flexible with pricing. Going up in price after making some changes would make more sense. Going down in price would make those early buyers angry, which is why I think the intro pricing strategy limits their options.

I think He Audio should just price the Jade at $1499 and forget about intro pricing. Then, if demand is high and reviews are good in June or Sept 2009, they can make a few cosmetic changes and raise the price to $1699 or $1799.

I don't have much faith that the Jade will remain unchanged through 2009 and 2010.

Given the worldwide economic troubles, I think the Jade's pricing is questionable. There is only a small market for high-end headphones and there are proven alternatives such as Stax, some current production dynamics, going for balanced dynamics, and a potentially flat or softer market for used OOP headphones.

I think many people are hesitant to switch from dynamics to electrostats, especially if they haven't heard many electrostat systems. People also like being able to plug in their dynamics into widely available amps and being able to use them with portable rigs.

[catscratch]

I'm not jumping on the Jade bandwagon until I have a chance to hear a pair for myself. $1899 is a lot. Now, from what I know Mr. He is going to be making about 10 of these a month or so, and I seriously doubt he's bothered that at that price he won't get that many orders. I think He'll (har har) have his hands full even as it is, and the pricing is appropriate from a business standpoint. If he could match Stax's production numbers, then it would be too much. In any case, the market is not exactly busting balls out there with the O2 Mk1 gone, HE60 and SR-Omega a part of distant history, and ESP950 cripped by that horrible stock box.

In other news, I've had the Opus 21 in my rig for a few days now.

From what I read online, I expected basically an 840c without the problems and a fuller midrange.

That is not what I got. Though the player is fuller souding, and it definitely doesn't have the problems of the 840c.

For starters, this player is much darker than the 840c. Darker to the point that my copper DiMarzio XLR cables became completely unusable with it. I never really understood the "dark" comments about the O2, but now I definitely do. With the copper cables, it was dark, congested, and pretty much all treble sparkle was gone. It was in serious need of a copperotomy. Fortunately, I had some silver ICs lying around - Headphile BlackSilver, which are pretty bright but still very fluid - and with them in the signal path, things improved massively.

If I could summarize this player in one word, it would be: forward. The presentation is rather different from the laid-back, ultra-airy, somewhat dry and metallic 840c. Whereas the 840c never bothers to flex its muscle and show off dynamic range, the Opus 21 is dynamic as all hell. Albums that sounded analytical and somewhat distant on the Opus 21 are now the sonic equivalent of being in the ring with Mike Tyson, at least as far as electrostatics go. The presentation is much more focused, the foreground is much more forward, the background is nicely separated and all of the layered soundstage is there, but there's also none of the sense of enormous - and artificial - air that you get with the 840c.

The digital glare is (mostly) gone as well. There is a smoothness and liquid quality to the sound, but it's not the same glossed-over upsampling sheen that the 840c puts over everything. This is just fluid sound. Things sound metallic when they have to, velvety and soft when they should, and natural and organic when the recording calls for it.

Tone is pretty much spot on if by "spot on" you mean "dead neutral." If you're looking for a honey-sweet warm golden tone, this not the source for you - unless of course your headphones/amp do that automatically. Tone is pretty realistic here - maybe a little bit stark, but not cold or nasal. There's no euphony or sweetness here at all.

The problem is, I really do dig syrupy-sweet midrange tones. That's why I liked the K340 and that's why I like the HE90. This rig doesn't do that. So, maybe I need to audition some Esoterics, or something else that sounds sweet and lush. But, that's not a priority by any means.

Bass is fuller and deeper than the 840c. It's not overblown, and certainly not emphasized. This is not a basshead source. But, whereas the 840c was definitely bass-light at times, the Opus 21 is just right with most albums. I'd prefer more bass for psytrance, but then it would get out of hand with other genres.

Highs are excellent, but as I've said before, you need to bring them out for this rig. If you have a brighter headphone you have nothing to worry about, but you'll need silver with the O2, that's for damn sure.

Detail is higher than the 840c but also slightly less apparent. The 840c's artificial sense of air really makes the sound very transparent, which in turn makes detail easy to spot. The highs are also foward on it, which brings inner detail out. The Opus 21 is very different, fuller, more forward, more punchy, and with more emphasis on the overall presentation. But, it's also noticeably more detailed when you listen closely. Though I can't by any means say that the 840c was lacking detail in the first place. The 840c is a detailed machine. The Opus 21 is a really detailed machine, but it doesn't make a fuss of its detail.

On the whole, this sounds like a competent high-end machine. It's forward, fluid, really dymamic, slightly dark, has a full and tonally realistic midrange, and lots and lots of detail. I'm not sure what the weaknesses are, since they're not obvious, and I need more listening time. I'm sure there are some gremlins here and there but on the whole the player sounds really well-rounded.

And dynamic as all hell. Did I mention that?

I think the last purchase I need for this rig are some silver XLR ICs. Right now I'm using RCA and there definitely is a slight decrease in detail and instrument separation, even compared to the copper ICs which really didn't synergize well.

[catscratch]

And by $1899, I mean of course $1799. Stupid edit timer. And confusing between the two players in a post that's already confusing just goes to show how tired I am...

I do seem to recall somebody talking about something similar but I'm not sure who...

Some several, if history serves right.

To quote Quest for Glory 4: "I don't want to say 'I told you so,' but I did..."

Anyway, I'm glad you've seen the light. Now go out and preach the word, and also try to hear the O2 on a Blue Hawaii.

Or better yet, don't say anything at all, because the more we yell about it Over There, the more second-hand O2 Mk1 prices will jump up. There is a cruel and devious part of me that rejoices at every negative review of the O2 that I see. That just leaves more for the rest of us

[dvse]

So, maybe I need to audition some Esoterics, or something else that sounds sweet and lush. But, that's not a priority by any means.

I suspect that it might still get quite a bit better than Opus and you definitely should try an Esoteric, EMM or dCS DAC - you're already pretty much there pricewise.