jose Posted January 18, 2018 Report Posted January 18, 2018 Thanks Birgir, for ruling out a little Is there any way to eliminate that static? In principle I don´t notice any kind of distortion or noise once I equal the balance from my DAC between both channels. There is a difference of about 22dB
wink Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 On 18/01/2018 at 8:39 AM, SeaWolf said: I'll just leave this here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/electrostatic-headphones-perun.837230/ Dead link.........
SeaWolf Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 Then they killed the thread on head-fi.. It was a DIY wood stat. If you're curious to see pics spritzer seemed familiar with it from the Russian forums. Maybe he could link.
zolkis Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 15 hours ago, chinsettawong said: As much as I love making electrostatic headphones, I don't think that I will ever make them for money. I'm just too busy with my work, and I really prefer sharing my knowledge and encouraging people to try to build them by themselves. I am willing to share everything of my design with everyone. Just let me know if you're interested to build. By the way, making a pair of good sounding electrostatic headphones isn't that difficult, but to make them as efficient as Stax headphones is not so easy. Until MrSpeakers and Phenomenon can make their phones to sound as loud as Stax, I would say that they still have a lot to learn. Thanks for sharing all those experiences, I really enjoyed reading about e-stat DIY, but somehow didn't get the courage to get into it (and into making drivers in general). I have some background in speaker design, but using off the shelf drivers. There are a lot of people who can do them much better than I could and I have very little time to spare. It's interesting what you say about sensitivity and makes sense. Taking it forward, I would be willing to sacrifice a bit from the 009 sensitivity if that made easier for Stax to achieve a sound signature closer to the 007 Mk1 and original Omega - or even smoother. At the moment I am perfectly satisfied with the Libratum 3 that has nailed the sound signature between the 007 Mk1 and the 009 (well, with modified pads), sounding more musical than both to my ears, but that might change when new contenders arrive. If Stax has that superior knowledge level (and surely they have), I very much wish they would choose to make a smoother/warmer/fleshier/more relaxed sounding version of the 009, even is less sensitive - actually more or less what the Libratum 3 is -, but then with Stax quality and fame . 2
rico Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 DIY Perun headphone has been around for about 10 years ,a DIY project, and this is the latest incarnation of it.I have followed the development of this phone on the russian forum for years and unfortunately the thread where it was introduced was deleted.This phone has gone through many stages and many prototypes ,even tens of different pads were tested.Every corner of this phone has been investigated to reach best possible performance.In it's latest version wich is the last and final version is comparable to the best stat phones around,many prefer these over Orpheus and SR-009.The driver is about 50% larger than 009 and is very efficient and easy to drive.This DIY project has gone commercial http://perun.prfi.ru/ I have ordered one and will test it soon and compare it to 009 and other Staxes. 3
SpeleoFool Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 Hi. First post. Just discovered Stax and enthusiastically jumped (totally blind) into ordering L700's and 727ii amp. Then started reading all about 727 problems, mods, etc.. Did I make a mistake? Should I have gone for 353 instead, perhaps? Or should I get over my jitters and prepare to be blown away by my first foray into the world of stats? Clarifying points: not at all comfortable doing amp mods, and no experience with tubes so I'd prefer to start with SS amp.
zolkis Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 53 minutes ago, SpeleoFool said: Hi. First post. Just discovered Stax and enthusiastically jumped (totally blind) into ordering L700's and 727ii amp. Then started reading all about 727 problems, mods, etc.. Did I make a mistake? Should I have gone for 353 instead, perhaps? Or should I get over my jitters and prepare to be blown away by my first foray into the world of stats? Clarifying points: not at all comfortable doing amp mods, and no experience with tubes so I'd prefer to start with SS amp. I'd say it's a pretty good start, perhaps enough for most people. High-end people are just a too loud minority :). Take a bit of time with the new system, listen to a lot of music, and you will get to learn and grow your own preferences in the process. Later you could get in mods (or get them done by someone else, as they do matter), or eventually change the amp and/or the headphones altogether, but you will need to spend multiple times your current expenditure if you want to seriously move up (e.g. Mjolnir Carbon + 007/009). The question is, will you really want to do this, or will you be left satisfied with this system. It depends on one's music preferences, listening culture and preferences etc. So just relax, enjoy the music at least for a year, and compare other options to this system. Imagine you'd have a much better system now: you'd still enjoy the same music :). So don't let that spoiled by the itching thought there are even better systems out there :). 1
spritzer Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 The 727 is only pretty bad in comparison to other amps so if you don't do that...you are ok. For me the biggest issue is the lack of engagement and excitement from the amp. It's just so dull and lifeless stock. 4 hours ago, rico said: DIY Perun headphone has been around for about 10 years ,a DIY project, and this is the latest incarnation of it.I have followed the development of this phone on the russian forum for years and unfortunately the thread where it was introduced was deleted.This phone has gone through many stages and many prototypes ,even tens of different pads were tested.Every corner of this phone has been investigated to reach best possible performance.In it's latest version wich is the last and final version is comparable to the best stat phones around,many prefer these over Orpheus and SR-009.The driver is about 50% larger than 009 and is very efficient and easy to drive.This DIY project has gone commercial http://perun.prfi.ru/ I have ordered one and will test it soon and compare it to 009 and other Staxes. See here is the usual crap with every new electrostat, they are always world beaters. The first impressions are always "best evah" but it never holds any water. The HE Audio stuff was great...nope it was horrible. The King Sound showed up Stax...nope...far from it really unless they were showing Stax how things should not be done? Now the Mr. Speakers Voce, read the meet impressions and they are stunning!! Talk to people who know something about electrostatics and they pretty much horrible. I just wish somebody would just take a set of the best 'stats out there and actually try to improve them without all the BS. Here's the rub though, for something so simple they are fucking hard to get right. As for the driver size, who on earth thinks that a larger driver is better? Sure the Stax SR-1 drivers were way too small but anything larger than the 009's has very dubious qualities. How is the driver supported, how do you deal with the internal vibrations of the driver, how much does it flex etc. A smaller driver will always outperform a larger flimsy driver... 1 1
rico Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, spritzer said: The 727 is only pretty bad in comparison to other amps so if you don't do that...you are ok. For me the biggest issue is the lack of engagement and excitement from the amp. It's just so dull and lifeless stock. See here is the usual crap with every new electrostat, they are always world beaters. The first impressions are always "best evah" but it never holds any water. The HE Audio stuff was great...nope it was horrible. The King Sound showed up Stax...nope...far from it really unless they were showing Stax how things should not be done? Now the Mr. Speakers Voce, read the meet impressions and they are stunning!! Talk to people who know something about electrostatics and they pretty much horrible. I just wish somebody would just take a set of the best 'stats out there and actually try to improve them without all the BS. Here's the rub though, for something so simple they are fucking hard to get right. As for the driver size, who on earth thinks that a larger driver is better? Sure the Stax SR-1 drivers were way too small but anything larger than the 009's has very dubious qualities. How is the driver supported, how do you deal with the internal vibrations of the driver, how much does it flex etc. A smaller driver will always outperform a larger flimsy driver... Perun is already a quite old design ,my approach to this is to have no expectations at all,i make no prejudice against a new product by comparing it to other bad phones wich were presented in the past .I take Perun as a "fresh newcomer" on the market ,if it's shit then it's shit , but i make no estimates before i have heard it.As soon i get these phones i will report back.Phenomenon is already a good example of a excellent electrostatic design wich competes with the best.I'm not sure if this is true but i remember to read somewhere that the driver of Peruns are manufactured in Japan. 1
Kattefjaes Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 2 hours ago, spritzer said: Now the Mr. Speakers Voce, read the meet impressions and they are stunning!! Talk to people who know something about electrostatics and they pretty much horrible. But I talked to Dan, and he said... This one time, at band camp, Dan said... etc. etc. It's impossible to critique Mr Speakers headphones online without people gushing about "Dan" as though he's a close personal friend and occasional sexual partner. It's all a bit odd. 2
spritzer Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, rico said: Perun is already a quite old design ,my approach to this is to have no expectations at all,i make no prejudice against a new product by comparing it to other bad phones wich were presented in the past .I take Perun as a "fresh newcomer" on the market ,if it's shit then it's shit , but i make no estimates before i have heard it.As soon i get these phones i will report back.Phenomenon is already a good example of a excellent electrostatic design wich competes with the best.I'm not sure if this is true but i remember to read somewhere that the driver of Peruns are manufactured in Japan. Give the reception in Russia where all the discussion is banned due to shilling...I'm very much skeptical of them. I very much doubt the drivers are made in Japan...by whom? Nobody makes off the shelf electrostatic drivers now. As for the Phenomenon, they are interesting but that's about it. They will need many generations to mature properly. 1 hour ago, Kattefjaes said: But I talked to Dan, and he said... This one time, at band camp, Dan said... etc. etc. It's impossible to critique Mr Speakers headphones online without people gushing about "Dan" as though he's a close personal friend and some time sexual partner. It's all a bit odd. It's the age old cult mentality, how dare he question our dear leader!!?? Singlepower, RSA, Cavalli etc. 1
JimL Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 2 hours ago, spritzer said: It's the age old cult mentality, how dare he question our dear leader!!?? Singlepower, RSA, Cavalli etc. Partly that, but by all reports it sounds like Dan is a nice guy, so that likely rubs off on his headphones. OTOH if he was an SOB...
SpeleoFool Posted January 19, 2018 Report Posted January 19, 2018 5 hours ago, zolkis said: I'd say it's a pretty good start, perhaps enough for most people. High-end people are just a too loud minority :). Take a bit of time with the new system, listen to a lot of music, and you will get to learn and grow your own preferences in the process. Later you could get in mods (or get them done by someone else, as they do matter), or eventually change the amp and/or the headphones altogether, but you will need to spend multiple times your current expenditure if you want to seriously move up (e.g. Mjolnir Carbon + 007/009). The question is, will you really want to do this, or will you be left satisfied with this system. It depends on one's music preferences, listening culture and preferences etc. So just relax, enjoy the music at least for a year, and compare other options to this system. Imagine you'd have a much better system now: you'd still enjoy the same music :). So don't let that spoiled by the itching thought there are even better systems out there :). Thanks. I've been through that whole process with loudspeakers and eventually found the balance point where I'm happier now with what I have than I would be by continuing to chase incremental improvements. For headphones, however, I never progressed beyond HD650s, and I've never even had a very serious dedicated setup for those. I was in the process of building one up when I ran headfirst into Stax and, based on long-ago listening sessions with electrostatic loudspeakers, instantly knew I needed them strapped to my head. :-) By jumping straight into a L700 + 727 stack my goal was to create a "beachhead" setup for getting to know the Stax with a good solid state amp. Got spooked by reports of muddy bass, harsh highs, etc., that accompanied the mods discussion. As a new arrival who has never actually heard any Stax, it's impossible for me to decipher whether the 727 problems are severe enough to spoil my honeymoon period with the L700s or merely an obstacle that prevents the 00x earspeakers from reaching their fullest potential. My order hasn't even shipped yet (I think), so I've been second-guessing whether amending my order to step down to a 353 would put me in a better position to form first impressions. I'm less inclined to head the other direction and invest more in better amp solutions since I'm already heading deep into unknown territory. In any case, my intention is simply to do exactly what you're suggesting: quit panicking and enjoy the music for a while before I entertain thoughts of next steps. And what I got from your response is that the 727 is not such a bad starting point for that. Thanks for that.
wink Posted January 20, 2018 Report Posted January 20, 2018 Yep, don't overthink it. Any Stax system you get will reset your thinking of what good sound is. All these reports about the vast differences between different gear are from people who are very intimate with the sound of the different gear. Very small differences can sound huge when you have trained your ears to critical listening. Add to that your own personal preferences, and you have a real bunfight. The best advice in your journey to the balance of sound vs cost is to take things slowly and take time to smell the sonic flowers.... 2
SpeleoFool Posted January 20, 2018 Report Posted January 20, 2018 Thanks, all. Feeling more relaxed about the entry point I've set up for myself. I'm an engineer (digital hardware verification), so I appreciate the dedication I see here from folks like Spritzer in picking apart the 727 and other products. Critical analysis is absolutely necessary to keep the pursuit of perfection ever-advancing; it's what ultimately enables us to appreciate every wrinkle and vein in the petals of those sonic flowers. :-P It doesn't bother me to hear that the amp I chose is imperfect; I happen to firmly believe that perfection isn't a state of being, but rather a target that forever remains on the horizon. It's helpful to have expert opinions of where the 727 might be lacking. I just wanted to make sure it's not a total lemon. Even the best companies will swing and miss once in a while. Pretty sure this setup is going to blow me away. I'm setting aside my anxieties and mentally compiling playlists. Can't wait for my first few steps into Stax-land. Maybe I'll pop back in and share some impressions when I get it all running. Cheers! 1
spritzer Posted January 20, 2018 Report Posted January 20, 2018 I aim to please... Wink is right though, we have spent a lot of time with these systems, comparing back and forth so small variations as thus amplified. It is one of the reasons why I think meet impressions as such utter BS only used to drive sales. You need some time with each component in a system you know to really gauge how it performs. 2
vvar10ck Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 Good day everyone! Unfortunately Head-fi topic of Perun was deleted and they're requested for a sponsorship, it's from 1K $ per month and too expencive for us. Feel free to contact me via PM or http://perun.prfi.ru mentioned above. 1
Kattefjaes Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 Am I a cynic, or is the Perun shilling starting to get slightly oppressive? I'm pretty sure that anyone with more than half a brain wouldn't send off a wad of money to Russia, especially having not heard them. It's enough to make you appreciate actual dealer networks. The hyperbole in the shilling reduces trust, rather than increasing it, incidentally. 1
gepardcv Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 The thread was removed from HF just because the Perun guys didn't pay a sponsorship fee? Really? Does this imply that Stax pays HF to keep the Stax thread available? I always thought the Stax corporation has no idea HF exists and wouldn't give a damn in any case.
mypasswordis Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 There's no doubt Stax know HF exists. Some HF members even did a factory tour. When's the HC factory tour? 1
Kattefjaes Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 56 minutes ago, gepardcv said: The thread was removed from HF just because the Perun guys didn't pay a sponsorship fee? Really? Does this imply that Stax pays HF to keep the Stax thread available? I always thought the Stax corporation has no idea HF exists and wouldn't give a damn in any case. It's probably more if you go on there as a company and make a thread that goes "HAI GUYS LOOK AT OUR WARES" . That may trigger Jude's advertising revenue spider sense. People who don't want to pay are supposed to at least pay basic attention to sockpuppet 101 and make an astroturfing thread. 1
vvar10ck Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, gepardcv said: Perun guys didn't pay a sponsorship fee? Really? https://www.head-fi.org/articles/terms-of-service.6725/#mot 1
vvar10ck Posted January 22, 2018 Report Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, mypasswordis said: When's the HC factory tour? Let's decide a list of parcipients at other topic and with sending route and we will provide a free sapmle to respective community members. 1
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