The Headcase Stax thread

[joehpj]

http://20cheaddatebase.web.fc2.com/STAX/STAXindex.html

I accidentally found a website about the history of Stax, which is very interesting.........in Japanese. I really don't know Stax had produced so many kinds of headspeakers. Google translator is your good friend.

[electrostatics]

Hi,

How is the STAX SR-207 worse than the larger SR-507 (owned that before)? How large is the difference to the TOTL models? I'm currently on a budget and want to get as much electrostatic "bang for the buck".

Thx

[DefQon]

Its a no brainer get the 207, save up and then get the new O2 007 or 009`s.

While some like the 507 I dislike it in every way and a side step from the 207 rather then a straight upgrade (if you ignore the model numbering).

The 207 with the 252S amp can be had for around $550 shipped from Japan and even less if you buy from YJ Auctions.

[wink]

Some would contend that the SR-207 is better than the SR-507

[Torpedo]

IMHO the 207 is a great headphone at a bargain price. Balanced and easy to the ear as the HD600, but with the speed and resolution of electrostatics

[3x0]

Any recommendations on a particular leather cleaner/conditioner for older earpads?

 

Now that I (finally) have a BHSE I'm going to use my SR-Omegas more often, but the pads are a bit hard. I'd rather take care of them now than have to replace them later on for cracks and whatnot...

[HemiSam]

8 hours ago, Torpedo said:

IMHO the 207 is a great headphone at a bargain price. Balanced and easy to the ear as the HD600, but with the speed and resolution of electrostatics

Shame the 207's are so often paired with an amp as the 2170 package.  Would be nice to get them shipped from Asia at an attractive price point w/o the amp.

HS

[DefQon]

1 hour ago, 3x0 said:

Any recommendations on a particular leather cleaner/conditioner for older earpads?

 

Now that I (finally) have a BHSE I'm going to use my SR-Omegas more often, but the pads are a bit hard. I'd rather take care of them now than have to replace them later on for cracks and whatnot...

Wait didn`t you at one time on the HF stax thread say that you couldn`t hear any difference between the bhse you auditoned at a meet and your old 727?

Anyway because the pads are long gone from manufacture and hard to source (unless you buy from the UK Stax distributor for around 200gbp) I would use any leather conditioning creams (use standard colour one for all leather not color matched to the brown on the Omega) for the earpads. This is what I did and do when I had an Omega 1 a moon ago and for my other headphones with leather earpads to prevent cracking.

 

Edited January 26, 2016 by DefQon

[3x0]

37 minutes ago, DefQon said:

Wait didn`t you at one time on the HF stax thread say that you couldn`t hear any difference between the bhse you auditoned at a meet and your old 727?

Anyway because the pads are long gone from manufacture and hard to source (unless you buy from the UK Stax distributor for around 200gbp) I would use any leather conditioning creams (use standard colour one for all leather not color matched to the brown on the Omega) for the earpads. This is what I did and do when I had an Omega 1 a moon ago and for my other headphones with leather earpads to prevent cracking.

 

I can't find myself having said something like that, but it sounds like some stupid shit I would say so I'll accept the attribution. Off-memory I think it was a KGSSHV (forget the config) that I found hot in the upper mids/treble vis-a-vis the 323S in a meet, and given the conditions I couldn't pay attention to much besides the tonal balance. The BHSE doesn't sound bright but one of these days I'll fire up the 323S betwixt sessions and hear what's what.

 

UK Stax distributors still have the original Omega earpads (not the bunk oversized ones)? I missed out on at least one pair of "NOS" non-oversized ones from eBay for ~$300US, so I guess proactive care from this point makes the most sense.

[DefQon]

Yes I think it might`ve been the kgsshv vs 323S that you had. It`s been a long time so I can`t recall 100% of the detail.

Does your pads have any crease marks?

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

[spritzer]

Some vinyl cleaners work wonders but it's a trial and error stuff.  Take care of those earpads as there are no replacements. 

12 hours ago, wink said:

Some would contend that the SR-207 is better than the SR-507

*Raises hand* 

[joehpj]

never heard a 207 on better amp than 252s. 407 on KGST is undoubtly good. It's said 207, 307 ,407 have similar drivers. I think its on par with 507 when well driven.

I won't say 407 is better than 507. Just a matter of taste.

[Laowei]

18 hours ago, HemiSam said:

Shame the 207's are so often paired with an amp as the 2170 package.  Would be nice to get them shipped from Asia at an attractive price point w/o the amp.

HS

I ordered my SR-207s directly from Kaneda PJ. Not on their website, had to email for a quote. 

I have to give those a new listen. They've been sitting for a while in my hall closet. 

 

7 hours ago, joehpj said:

never heard a 207 on better amp than 252s. 407 on KGST is undoubtly good. It's said 207, 307 ,407 have similar drivers. I think its on par with 507 when well driven.

I won't say 407 is better than 507. Just a matter of taste.

The 207 has different drivers from the 307, 407, and 507. 

[HemiSam]

15 minutes ago, Laowei said:

I ordered my SR-207s directly from Kaneda PJ. Not on their website, had to email for a quote. 

I have to give those a new listen. They've been sitting for a while in my hall closet. 

 

The 207 has different drivers from the 307, 407, and 507. 

Laowei,

That's good info....thanks.  

Please let me know when you get to listen to them again...would be great to get your thoughts.  Thinking about them as a back-up option after I looked into some 404 Limiteds based on advice here, but the price point on the 404's was a bit much for what they are.  Also been thinking about the L 700's, but I don't know how much time I'll end up giving them when I dig the 007A's so much.  

Cheers,

HS 

[Tompoodie]

I purchased a pair of 207s and a 323 amp and love the combo.  I heeded Spitzer's advice not to buy more expensive lambdas; thank you for your posts, Spitzer, which are always informative and frequently funny.  The comment that it is smoother on top can be easily verified by looking at the data posted on Innerfidelity.

Speaking of that data, with 207s the distortion is so low, and impulse response and square wave so good, with benign frequency curve, other than bigger sound stage and perhaps better bass below 30 Hz, I wonder how much better the L700 could be than 207s even with the 009 drivers.  A German amateur reviewer reported a 5-10% increase in detail of the L700 vs the other lambdas. I suspect this is accurate.

Can a case be made that the 207, properly amped, is a better value than the L700?  Also, as Spitzer has pointed out, it is a new model with unknown failure rate.  That is an important point, given how many people have had the dreaded channel mismatch with 009s.

Comments?  

[HemiSam]

The only thing I can offer is that I experienced the channel imbalance with a brand new pair of 007A's I purchased last year from Japan.  They were eventually replaced with a new pair and they have performed well thus far.  Hopefully no more drama.  I very much like them paired with the Ygg and KGST.

HS

[spritzer]

One more data point on the 207, to date three of my KGSSHV mini's have been bought by recording studios as the final mix monitors.  I'm not allowed to name the studios but they are...well known...  let's just say that.    Anyway all of them use the 207 for this even though price really wasn't an issue.  Granted they need to take into account just how much abuse they must suffer but primarily it was the sound.  I must say that the measurements Tyll did helped a lot as honestly, how many chains will give you these THD numbers? 

This is at the same time that there is some consensus on HF that the KGSS is super bright and the KGSSHV even more so.  Everybody knows that the KGSS is slightly on the warmer side (due to the third stage lack of CCS which I countered in Tyll's amp) and the KGSSHV is pretty much dead neutral.  If it is bright well then how about looking at the phones or the source?  These amps are wires with gain (and a lot of it at that) so they must naturally be the culprit.  Yeah that makes sense... 

[johnwmclean]

But.. but.. everybody knows you’ve been tweaking your amps for the 007s and sucky with 009s 

[wink]

Yeah, and "everyone" knows that ALL amps are "voiced" for a particular "house sound".

[spritzer]

Ahh yes the voicing thing, does anybody actually believe that shit?  I mean it takes a complete lack of understanding on how things are designed and how amps work to pull that off.  It is quite clear that all of our amps are basically wires with gain where the only real limitation is down to the topology and the parts used.  That was the initial plan with "special 009 amp", find a circuit and components which would deal with with the sub-par bass and treble/upper midrange performance in the same way the HEV90 dumbs down the HE90. 

Something like the Blue Hawaii would have been a natural starting point as it starts rolling off in the audible treble region (which is why it sounds a bit dark and boomy at times) and to roll on from there.  Given that Stax are trying to fix the 009 it was a bad idea to try and design for a moving target.  Still this wouldn't be voicing, more finding compatible transducer and amplifier pairing which has been a cornerstone of audio through the ages. 

The bottom line though is that you can't voice amps if you want ultimate transparency. You can throw feedback at, change the topology, run devices at the wrong operating point etc. it to alter the sound quality and the performance of the circuit but I don't think anybody would believe that is done with the aim of making an "honest" amplifier.  

All of this also stinks of the same BS as the whole burn-in mess.  There people assume a certain gold standard, that they hear like an AP measuring station so it has to be the component that is changing.  I mean it couldn't possibly take a while for our very flawed hearing to get to know a component and break down our own mental blocks?  Nope, has to be the thing we can't prove or measure in any way, which is the but of all jokes when you talk to engineers.  Yup... makes sense... 

Same thing here, why is the amp blamed as bright when all it is doing is amplifying what it is fed and driving the phones to its best ability?  It isn't possible that the source is bright (which many, many are now) or there is something wrong with the transducers when they are actually fed properly?  None of this makes any sense to me.... 

[eggil]

The HeadFi Stax thread has reached a level of non sense that is pitiful. There is a guy there  who loves to post as if he knows all about it and offers advise to unsuspecting souls. Very sad.

BTW when I expressed my despair at the lack of a DIY room at the next CanJam ,everybody said is not needed and thanked the sponsors for their wonderful support.:(

 

[Laowei]

On January 27, 2016 at 8:47 AM, HemiSam said:

Laowei,

That's good info....thanks.  

Please let me know when you get to listen to them again...would be great to get your thoughts.  Thinking about them as a back-up option after I looked into some 404 Limiteds based on advice here, but the price point on the 404's was a bit much for what they are.  Also been thinking about the L 700's, but I don't know how much time I'll end up giving them when I dig the 007A's so much.  

Cheers,

HS 

Listened with my Yggy and KGST. They are a very pleasant, easy listening and natural sounding pairing. Reminds me of my Bose system in my Caddy ATS-V. Non-fatiguing balanced SQ and can listen for hours. Just no ultimate hi-resolution *pop*, boom and soundstage like its big brothers. Overall, very very nice. 

I don't have that much experience with Stax earspeakers or especially amps. Only using a KGST limits my opinion.

On second listen, I think I can offer a good analogy about the differences in SQ in my rig between the SR-207 and SR-L700.

The SR-207 sounds a little like a vintage alnico paper cone full range loudspeaker (think Fostex or WE 755, not Lowther). Not extended on either frequency extreme, but extremely coherent and natural sounding in the middle meat of the music. Nothing sticks out, and the music just happens. Just slightly lacking in dynamics and details, sins of omission.

In direct A>B the SR-L700 sounds like a 2 way loudspeaker with a Kevlar woofer and metal dome tweeter. More extension on both ends, more apparent detail and *pop* and boom. But lacking that "single voice" the 207 has.

I used the 207 earlier in my system with a DS Gungnir. I retired them to the hall closet thinking they were the weak link runt of the Stax line. Never listened to them with my Yggy until last night. With more use, I just might find them to be more enjoyable than my 700s over a long listening session. And they are lighter and more comfortable too. All in all, I find they are a great bargain and play well for Yggy/KGST owners. Other combos may be SOL.  

Please note that I have not heard a 307,407, 507.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2016 by Laowei

[dripf]

On 27/1/2016 at 1:26 AM, Tompoodie said:

 A German amateur reviewer reported a 5-10% increase in detail of the L700 vs the other lambdas. I suspect this is accurate.

Can a case be made that the 207, properly amped, is a better value than the L700? 

The reviewer is confused by differences of dB in the highs. They are both stats in similar housing. With the lambdas, there's a couple of dB too much at 1.5 kHz and a couple too few in the DF area around 3-6 kHz. I can't find anything else to complain about for the 307. I bought them intending to use the ED-1 impulse but quickly preferred the native response.

I do have an 8.5 dB bass boost on hand though.

[RocketUppercut]

The srm323S seems popular but I have accidentally purchased the srm323A instead.

I don't own any Stax headphone yet.

I was initially thinking about using the amp with sr507, sr404LE, or sr-l500, but the recent comments about the sr207 make me consider this one.

Should I upgrade to srm323S anyway?

Regards

[Torpedo]