The Headcase Stax thread

[spritzer]

Both are a bit "round" sounding so they should work well.

[Leonardo Drummond]

An SRA-10S? Now that's something I didn't expect! That's one of those old sort of integrated amps that they did, isn't it? But well, as I don't have any sort of DIY knowledge, seems a bit too complicated for me. Still, it's somewhat funny that it's a good pairing, seems like one of those things you just don't expect. It's normal bias though, right? Did you convert it to pro bias?

I'd be really interested about your opinions on the "fixed" GES once you get to it, as it sounded like a very cost effective solution.

And padam, I've read good things about the unmodded 727 as well, but surprisingly nothing about the 323S, which seems to be the budget O2 amp nowadays. Any thoughts on that?

Just another quick question... would you guys take a 009 with a modest amp (be it a 727, 717, 323S or even a GES) or an O2 with a BHSE, with a future upgrade in mind on both cases?

[padam]

visualguy @hf wrote the 727 is better than the 323S for the 009 (take that as you will)

I did not hear the 007 with something better than a 717 and DA11 as source but I felt that the 009 sounded much much nicer (with none of the "veil" that I heard on the 007, I was less impressed with them after hearing the 009) so I would take the latter for its open and super-detailed and clear presentation (it is like an open window to the music while the 007 is a blurred window) but there are genres where the the 007 is more fun because there is more bass. I didn't feel there were issues with the treble either, it was very relaxing to listen to.

Also, for me the fit is nicer on the 009 and because of that the comfort is better as well. If I had to criticize something it would the arc which should not look weird on a hp as expensive as this but the weight is well-distributed.

Now I start to think I would like the HE60 more than an O2 but the former is quite worrying in terms of build quality (reliability)...

Edited February 12, 2012 by padam

[Leonardo Drummond]

Thanks padam, that's really helpful

[arnaud]

To this day, I still could experience anything else than stax gear, but I can say with certainty that the sr009 does not sound half bad with the stock 727 amp.

While it clearly wasn't optimal with the O2mkIi (uncontrolled bass, falling apart on complex musical passages), the amp seems to do pretty well with the 009. In particular, I really don't feel my rig is artificially bright (I can't listen to some average recordings at high SPL though).

For the 323S, I only could compare shortly, but one thing I remember is that it didn't seem to render the low end as well as the more expensive 727 amp ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/531743/new-listening-impressions-of-stax-c32-prototype-and-shipping-sr-009/780#post_7502031 ).

[Leonardo Drummond]

Thanks arnaud, that's good to know as well. That's basically my only concern about the 009, being too bright. I had the (apparently erroneous) idea that the 727 was too cold, therefore not a good pairing with the 009. But judging from all I'm reading here, it seems there's nothing to worry about!

I also spoke to Erico - the guy in Brazil that has the 009 and pretty much every Stax amp - and he confirmed that it's a good pairing in his opinion. He also said (Birgir, FWIW) that the GES wouldn't be good with it since the bass seriously lacks definition with it. I think he still has his GES and wasn't talking out of memory, so that's some good feedback there.

There's an old 007t on eBay now, I read good things about it, is it worth considering? Or just not as good as either the 727 or 717? Sorry if I'm being annoying with all these questions, everyone!

Edited February 13, 2012 by Leonardo Drummond

[Torpedo]

Get the 717, it matches great with the 009 (I've been using this combo heavily for the last few weeks) and also would make a decent amp for the 007, just in case at some point you decided to try them.

Investing on a 009 set makes much more sense than getting the R10. However I love these headphones, they're something that one deserves to try at some point

Edited February 13, 2012 by Torpedo

[HeadphoneAddict]

I'll get nailed for this, but I thought my SS eXSTaA sounds very good with the SR-009, and it's a bit better than with the HE-60 or 007. They also sound pretty good with my ZDT > WEE transformer. Even better is my Woo WES mk1, but my luvdunhill built KGSS comes out on top with them. So, the SR-009/KGSS could be my only electrostatic headphone rig if it came down to that.

[Leonardo Drummond]

Torpedo, good to know! I did have a 007 and loved it to bits... I only sold it in order to get the R10s while I don't sell my bass guitar, and have the plan of buying it again once I sell it.

I'd seriously love to audition the R10s, but it's nearly impossible here in Brazil... as crazy as it seems, it's much easier to buy one!

Larry, I enjoyed my 007 with the eXStatA, but then I didn't have any opportunity to listen to it with anything else apart from the Aristaeus. I also consider asking someone here in Brazil to build a KGSSHV to me, but I don't think it'll be easy!

[deepak]

Leonardo another phone to consider is the Stax SR-Omega. Birgir seems to have nailed down the issue of the driver failure and how it can be prevented.

It has a brighter tonality compared to the SR-007 mk1. It is not too bright though, as I dislike upper mid/treble heavy phones myself but I feel the SR-Omega has a nice balance. The imaging isn't as precise as the 007. But it has a larger euphonic soundstage like the HE90.

I have not heard the SR-009.

[Leonardo Drummond]

True deepak, I hadn't actually considered the Omega, but now that you've mentioned it, there's not much against it... and it has that nice legendary status that I appreciate. Thanks for the suggestion, there's another one to consider!

Speaking of the HE90, I'll be spending sometime with my friend's set (which includes an Aristaeus as well) for a few weeks, and this will be nice for me to actually check whether I'd be willing to live with a slightly brighter sound presentation than what I'm used to! And I adore its soundstage, so if the Omega sounds somewhat like it, there's a point in its favor!

[spritzer]

To me the SR-Omega accomplished what the HE90 tried to do, throw a huge soundstage without sacrificing pinpoint imaging. I do think it is too bright but most of that is due to the craptacular enclosure as it only creeps in at higher volume levels.

[TMoney]

I wonder if Tyll's observations about the acoustic reflex in this article (http://www.innerfide...oud-music-sucks) might be why you and others are hearing the original Omega and 009 as bright?

FWIW, when I rock out and listen to the 009 above 80dB I tend to think it sounds like shit. Very bright, very clear shit.

When I listen at my normal volume level of 68-72dB the 009 sounds like heaven.

Maybe the changing frequency sensitivity at higher volumes explains why the 007 (and LCD2) sound so good for rocking out?

EDIT: Maybe this is also why people like the Cavalli amp at meets as people usually listen at a higher than normal level to compensate.

Edited February 16, 2012 by TMoney

[Spychedelic Whale]

I wonder if Tyll's observations about the acoustic reflex in this article (http://www.innerfide...oud-music-sucks) might be why you and others are hearing the original Omega and 009 as bright?

FWIW, when I rock out and listen to the 009 above 80dB I tend to think it sounds like shit. Very bright, very clear shit.

When I listen at my normal volume level of 68-72dB the 009 sounds like heaven.

Maybe the changing frequency sensitivity at higher volumes explains why the 007 (and LCD2) sound so good for rocking out?

EDIT: Maybe this is also why people like the Cavalli amp at meets as people usually listen at a higher than normal level to compensate.

I can relate to that, when I listened the 009 at first though it was painfully bright but after getting the volume sweespot it sounded great and it maintains the detail at very low volumes which I enjoy.

[spritzer]

It's certainly a part of the issue but it also has a lot to do with the voicing of the transducer. I can hear certain issues, such as how the bass on the 009 just stops when you reach certain amplitude and frequency, regardless of the volume level. This is due to the diaphragm material, it's thickness and tension i.e. the voicing of the driver. Damping does play a part here but it is minimal on the modern 'stats as airdamping only does so much.

As for the amps, yeah the Cavalli amps, WES, HEV90 and a few others will sound ok at meets but poor in real life. Same reason the HE90 concours every meet they are at...

[TMoney]

As for the amps, yeah the Cavalli amps, WES, HEV90 and a few others will sound ok at meets but poor in real life. Same reason the HE90 concours every meet they are at...

100% agreed.

The sad thing is that the scrubs over on the other site are making serious purchasing decisions based on the meet opinions of others. I mean, trying to evaluate gear yourself in meet conditions is bad enough. Relying on the hearsay opinions of others who have listened to unfamiliar gear in a noisy environment seems to be nuts for anything other than identifying lemons.

Edited February 16, 2012 by TMoney

[TMoney]

It's certainly a part of the issue but it also has a lot to do with the voicing of the transducer. I can hear certain issues, such as how the bass on the 009 just stops when you reach certain amplitude and frequency, regardless of the volume level.

You wouldn't happen to have a music file or sound file that you've heard this effect on, have you? I'm going to be able to compare my 009s with 007mk1s at a mini-meet in the in the near future and it'd be interesting to see if we can recreate the effect that you are hearing.

[spritzer]

Nothing springs to mind but I'll break out the 009's when I have time.

[Maxvla]

100% agreed.

The sad thing is that the scrubs over on the other site are making serious purchasing decisions based on the meet opinions of others. I mean, trying to evaluate gear yourself in meet conditions is bad enough. Relying on the hearsay opinions of others who have listened to unfamiliar gear in a noisy environment seems to be nuts for anything other than identifying lemons.

What would you suggest then? Buy them all and return what you don't like? Hardly feasible for all but the rich. Some people can't attend meets so they are stuck.

I don't mean to be confrontational, just genuinely curious.

[TMoney]

Mini-meets, my good friend. I've always lived in/near major metropolitan areas so I've usually been able to find people who have the gear I want to check out. That way I can bring my own headphones/source/music/etc and listen in as controlled an environment as is practical.

The other thing is I've been able to identify other people with whom I almost always agree with in terms of taste. Pretty much all of them are over here and not at the other site, natch.

Edited February 16, 2012 by TMoney

[cobra_kai]

What would you suggest then? Buy them all and return what you don't like? Hardly feasible for all but the rich. Some people can't attend meets so they are stuck.

I don't mean to be confrontational, just genuinely curious.

It's really not that unreasonable a suggestion. Lots of internet direct speaker companies offer 30 day trials for their stuff such as Emotiva, Salk, Ascend, Hsu, and others. Sometimes you just pay shipping and sometimes they will even foot that bill. And some of those guys, like Salk, don't move a ton of volume.

[Maxvla]

Mini-meets, my good friend. I've always lived in/near major metropolitan areas so I've usually been able to find people who have the gear I want to check out. That way I can bring my own headphones/source/music/etc and listen in as controlled an environment as is practical.

The other thing is I've been able to identify other people with whom I almost always agree with in terms of taste. Pretty much all of them are over here and not at the other site, natch.

I suppose mini meets are the best meets, but it does often depend on your location. I'm not aware of anyone within 2 hours drive that has high end headphone gear, much less someone interested in a meet. I usually end up driving 3 1/2 hours to Dallas or 6 1/2 hours to Austin as I will in about a month for any sort of meet action.

I'm still in the early stages of high end gear so I haven't made any ties with listening preferences.

--

The point about free trials is good, but aren't most high end amps built only to order? I suppose there might be a return policy but I haven't noticed it. Sources and headphones seem to be easier to do this with though.

[ktm]

Buy used and the money goes further, and you lose less on reselling what you don't like.

Headphone wise, there isn't much 30 day trial going on. Many people wouldn't ever want

used headphones, so it's a short list of dealers who would do a trial on headphones.

[TMoney]

Nothing springs to mind but I'll break out the 009's when I have time.

Thanks, Spritzer. Keep us posted if you find a track.

When you give the 009s some time try listening more on the quiet end up the spectrum as an experiment and see if they can fight their way to more time in your headphone rotation.

[TruBrew]

Buy used and the money goes further, and you lose less on reselling what you don't like.

Headphone wise, there isn't much 30 day trial going on. Many people wouldn't ever want

used headphones, so it's a short list of dealers who would do a trial on headphones.

I second the buying use gear suggestion. That is what I have done. I lose a small amount of money on most resales, but I have made a few extra dollars on occasion. I can't afford to buy 8 new things at once, but thats not a big deal. Buy something used, if you don't like it, sell it to the next guy. Try and find things for sale at good prices. That way when you sell it later you only lose shipping.