Tachikoma Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 So maybe it is OK to use a 5 pin PRO socketed Earspeaker with a 6 spin NORMAL bias socket like the 2 that are on the SRD7SB, -despite the bias voltages being different.Yep, you can't damage the headphones by undervolting them. It should be possible to overdrive the Gamma drivers with a power amp, so thats probably the reason for the holes on the diaphragm. It is possible to repair the diaphragms but it isn't a particularly easy procedure, and they probably won't sound the same anymore even if you do get them repaired.
Col11 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Many thanks Tachikoma for that help, So I assume that new diaphrams are no longer availiable for the Gamma Pro anywhere? The repair you mention does not sound ideal in terms of the difficulty invloved and the sonic results but I suppose it is better than nothing, - is this a DIY job or would you have to pay a place to do it for you?, - any further info would be great. I suppose alternatively I could look for another used pair of Gammas or Gamma Pros. To my ears the Gammas are thinner and a bit tinnier sounding than the Lambdas, - not as well balanced. However the Gammas are a bit more transparent and sound quite good with simple music like Guitar etc. Used Gammas do not seem to come up very often though so I might be waiting a while. Yep, you can't damage the headphones by undervolting them. It should be possible to overdrive the Gamma drivers with a power amp, so thats probably the reason for the holes on the diaphragm. It is possible to repair the diaphragms but it isn't a particularly easy procedure, and they probably won't sound the same anymore even if you do get them repaired.
mypasswordis Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Stax very well engineers their headphones. You likely turned the Gamma Pro up way too high and the mylar diaphragm got too close to the stators and got fried a bit. You'd have to get an extremely thin mylar sheet, which is somewhat hard to source, and then tension them to close to what Stax did with the driver in the Gamma Pro. The entire process is hard to do (at least for me) due to the fact that you have to take apart the entire driver assembly, remove the old diaphragm, make a new one that is like the old one (very hard), and then put it back together. I'm sure spritzer has more to say, though.
spritzer Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 There are no parts available for Gamma phones (earpads, housings, drivers or arcs) so you are out of luck there. Stax did say that they might be interested in making some drivers for us but that was some time ago and it would have to be a large order. As for the damage... well I didn't think that was even possible as Stax always put silistors on the normal bias outputs to limit their output voltage but Pro drivers are immune to arcing with the drive voltages present. Did you remove the drivers from the housing to check inside as that is the only way to check?
Col11 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Many thanks for that, The damage occured when my Dad had the headphones many years ago, - he does not listen loud so it is strange, but I suppose it is possible my little brother or sister (at the time) turned the amp up full blast with the headphone switched on one day. The only other thing I can think of is that this "NORMAL" adaptor is the SRD7SB, - the self bias (non mains powered version), - could this cause more damage with PRO type headphones than a powered adaptor (I am guessing) The repair you mention sound intruiging! pretty hard though. Does any one have any info on that?! Stax very well engineers their headphones. You likely turned the Gamma Pro up way too high and the mylar diaphragm got too close to the stators and got fried a bit. You'd have to get an extremely thin mylar sheet, which is somewhat hard to source, and then tension them to close to what Stax did with the driver in the Gamma Pro. The entire process is hard to do (at least for me) due to the fact that you have to take apart the entire driver assembly, remove the old diaphragm, make a new one that is like the old one (very hard), and then put it back together. I'm sure spritzer has more to say, though.
Col11 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Many thanks Spritzer, As I assumed no parts are availible for the Gammas. Both drivers are definitely damaged, - I opened up and had a look and visually looked at them, - one pretty bad, - a couple of big holes, - the other one not so bad. Odd isn't it!, - could it have been the Self Bias Normal SRD7SB adaptor that caused the problem? Cheers again, Colin There are no parts available for Gamma phones (earpads, housings, drivers or arcs) so you are out of luck there. Stax did say that they might be interested in making some drivers for us but that was some time ago and it would have to be a large order. As for the damage... well I didn't think that was even possible as Stax always put silistors on the normal bias outputs to limit their output voltage but Pro drivers are immune to arcing with the drive voltages present. Did you remove the drivers from the housing to check inside as that is the only way to check?
spritzer Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 I just wanted to be sure it was the actual mylar membrane that you looked at and not the dustcover. You'd be surprised how many don't realize the difference. The SB unit is just like a mains powered unit except that it draws the AC voltage from the audio. They are are both limited by zener diodes so the input voltage can never exceed 100v.
vvs_75 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 I'm not sure I'm quite as enthusiastic as Colin regarding the ESP-950s. While when properly amped (I heard them out of the BHSE and SRD7) I would say I liked them at least as much as the HD-650s I thought they were pretty mediocre out of the stock energizer. Could you please elaborate more on improvement of ESP 950 /BHSE compare to ESP 950 / SRD7? Thanks.
pabbi1 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 The Jade are ready for your ears to taste them. You will no longer want ESP950... You must set your sights higher. Not necessarily - this has not been my experience at all. I will buy 950 (and amp them at 620v) long before I'd consider an HE product, and that has nada to do with the reliebility issues.
n_maher Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Could you please elaborate more on improvement of ESP 950 /BHSE compare to ESP 950 / SRD7? Thanks. Sorry, I can't. It's been too long and my time with both setups was too short. About all I can say definitely is that I preferred both setups described above to the ESP-950 w/ it's stock energizer.
Col11 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 I just wanted to be sure it was the actual mylar membrane that you looked at and not the dustcover. You'd be surprised how many don't realize the difference. The SB unit is just like a mains powered unit except that it draws the AC voltage from the audio. They are are both limited by zener diodes so the input voltage can never exceed 100v. Hi Spritzer, Thanks for that. Yes the clear membrames have holes in them. A bit of a mystery, - I think someone must have turned them up full blast one day and arched the membranes! Looks like getting new parts or getting the Gamma Pros repaired is not worth the time or Hassle. I have been told a good buy for my SRD7SB energiser is a pair on NORMAL (i.e. non Pro) Lambdas, - and a quick look around confirms this, many people prefereing them over the lambda Pros. Are they pretty common/quite easy to find and the price reasonable? Cheers again, Colin
runnin17 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Another newb posting out of the blue about Stax as I am curious about them because I have never heard them or heard very much about them. I kind of get the impression that Stax headphones are meant to be paired with a Stax amp also; however, I have seen a lot of people who go against this trend. I have tried to read as many posts as I could, but I still don't really get a good feel for the Stax headphones and what they are all about. Anyway, my question is. What type of sound signature do the Stax have compared to the other main headphone manufacturer's? The only cans I have heard are the HD580's, Proline 2500's, HFI-780's, DT770's, and AKG 701's. Thanks in advance for any info.
spritzer Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Right now I'm sitting here with a Jade on my head. The build quality is quite horrible to say the least and the pads are way too stiff to serve their purpose and should really be tapered. The cable is far too stiff and has to go which is something I will be doing. They really look like a 20 year old used Lambda covered in small nicks and scrapes except they are new and everything is just stuck together with some glue. Now onto the sound. Simply dropping them into my computer rig instead of the SR-Omega/007 is quite a cultural shock. The soundstage is far too wide, so much so that is messes with the stereo image. This makes the soundstage very 2D and they have no depth to speak of. They are certainly forward and just a tiny bit aggressive in the top midrange but I'll have to spend more time with them to know if some etch is hiding behind it. The midrange is ok but nothing spectacular. The bass is very much like the He90, all show and no go. It lacks the presence, depth, control and texture of even the SR-Omega let alone the younger brother, even the ESP950 has cleaner bass from memory. The bass goes deep and can be impressive at times but it is slow and sloppy, pointing to the chassis not being able to soak up all the extra energy. There are also some strange things going on with the lower midrange/upper bass, some suck out which makes them appear a bit thin in places. Now these are just first impressions after a few hours out of the box (they aren't new though) so they might change. Are they pretty common/quite easy to find and the price reasonable? They are pretty common but sought after on the headphone forums fetching about 250-300$. Well worth it though.
mypasswordis Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Wow, if that isn't a glowing review of a headphone, I don't know what is.
faust3d Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Right now I'm sitting here with a Jade on my head. The build quality is quite horrible to say the least and the pads are way too stiff to serve their purpose and should really be tapered. The cable is far too stiff and has to go which is something I will be doing. They really look like a 20 year old used Lambda covered in small nicks and scrapes except they are new and everything is just stuck together with some glue. Now onto the sound. Simply dropping them into my computer rig instead of the SR-Omega/007 is quite a cultural shock. The soundstage is far too wide, so much so that is messes with the stereo image. This makes the soundstage very 2D and they have no depth to speak of. They are certainly forward and just a tiny bit aggressive in the top midrange but I'll have to spend more time with them to know if some etch is hiding behind it. There are also some strange things going on with the lower midrange/upper bass, some suck out which makes them appear a bit thin in places. This is mostly matching my impressions of Jade, although you are harsher on them. During my short audition I also noticed that they have this overall cold and unpleasant tone and coloration. Everything sounds in a specific way and does not change based on recording, I found that annoying as hell. Oh, well people seem to like them a lot, but I rather take LNS politeness or ESP950 aggressiveness than this strange brittle coloration. YMMV
spritzer Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 I'm always ruthless as I don't like compromises. They do have their moments though and I have to see what I can do to help them along. One things for sure, those dust covers will have to go as the holes are much larger then the ones used by Stax. You can stay tuned for some exploratory pictures in the next few days...
guzziguy Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 This is mostly matching my impressions of Jade, although you are harsher on them. <snip> Try living in a place called "ice land" and see if you don't become more harsh.
faust3d Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 I'm always ruthless as I don't like compromises. They do have their moments though and I have to see what I can do to help them along. One things for sure, those dust covers will have to go as the holes are much larger then the ones used by Stax. You can stay tuned for some exploratory pictures in the next few days... Well they do sound like precise, fast, very detailed and refined upper echelon stat They are real hi-end headphones in many ways better then SR-Lambda series, but some things that are bad are even more annoying because of this. Soundstage and tone was their weak point if you ask me. I was listening to ECR500 and TK33 last night and these 30 year old trets destroy something like Jade when it comes to soundstage. Hell ECR500 can even compete with O2, Lambda and Sigma when it comes to soundstage, details are lucking but imaging and tone are exceptional.
faust3d Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Try living in a place called "ice land" and see if you don't become more harsh. Hey I live in Brooklyn, nuff said
spritzer Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Try living in a place called "ice land" and see if you don't become more harsh. I'm a viking so what can I do. If you have anything to say, talk to my axe just as it cuts you in half... Well they do sound like precise, fast, very detailed and refined upper echelon stat They are real hi-end headphones in many ways better then SR-Lambda series, but some things that are bad are even more annoying because of this. Soundstage and tone was their weak point if you ask me. I was listening to ECR500 and TK33 last night and these 30 year old trets destroy something like Jade when it comes to soundstage. Hell ECR500 can even compete with O2, Lambda and Sigma when it comes to soundstage, details are lucking but imaging and tone are exceptional. The soundstage was what struck me first but it is really the tonality that is eating at me now. They are even worse then the HE60 which says a lot! There are peeks and valleys all over the place making some songs (even parts of a song) sound great while others are just annoying. Ohh and they are hard to drive, no question about it as even the 717 is struggling a bit. Justin, where is that BHSE!
Sherwood Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 I have tried to read as many posts as I could, but I still don't really get a good feel for the Stax headphones and what they are all about. We've got about 2500 posts here in our Stax thread, and HF has about 8 times that many in their two Stax threads. Surely, somewhere in those 20,000 posts you can get an overview of what 'stats sound like. Happy hunting.
justin Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Ohh and they are hard to drive, no question about it as even the 717 is struggling a bit. Justin, where is that BHSE! moar pics later tonight if im still awake
spritzer Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Ok some info on the Jade design. I haven't ripped them apart yet as I'm still adjusting to their sound but I did take a peek... The earpads would be easy to replace for anybody as they are simply glued to the sides of the cup, so very HE90 but they used a clip to secure the pads. Underneath is the protection plate and it appears that the drivers are bolted to it and it is then secured to the chassis. I'll know more once I take them apart but it looks like there is nothing to seal the baffle so that might explain some of the strange behavior. Time to break out the bluetak and the Stax cable.
Voltron Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 Ohh and they are hard to drive, no question about it as even the 717 is struggling a bit. Justin, where is that BHSE! moar pics later tonight if im still awake [eardicker]Are you going to send out some bogus FedEx tracking numbers tonight too, Mikhail Jr.?![/eardicker]
spritzer Posted January 21, 2009 Report Posted January 21, 2009 moar pics later tonight if im still awake Late tonight is early morning here so that works for me.
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