Redneck elevator

[Wmcmanus]

I'm thinking about getting one of these to gain better access to my attic: Products

The largest model is 4' x 6' and lifts up to 750 pounds. Cost is $2,595 plus shipping, so nearly $3k to Florida. Then the on-shipping to Cayman and 20% import duty when it gets here. Then paying someone to prepare the opening, do the install, and make it all look finished. Probably $5k or more before all is said and done.

But that would allow me to:

1) Get most of the junk in my attic out of there, much of which is my former fiancee's accumulated possessions from living in Cayman for 17 years prior to moving to the US almost 10 years ago. She's shown zero interest in any of it, even the childhood pics of her kids. So I'd sift through everything looking for keepsakes (for her kids, not her), and then give away the rest.

2) Reinforce the attic floor by doubling up the joists, then install a plywood floor. Then put in an a/c system of some sort, some overhead lighting and electrical outlets, and then sheetrock the walls making it into a temperature controlled 18' x 30' storage room. Could always go back at a later date and make it into livable space.

3) Move everything from my extremely packed one car garage up into the attic, principally wooden crates for speakers and amps and other large audio related boxes, but some other stuff as well that needs to be kept but is in the way.

4) Move all exercise equipment that is presently spread across 4 rooms into the garage, which would then become an official gym, although of course it will rarely get used. I might, might, be able to fit everything in there.

5) The newly freed up front bedroom (which now houses about half of the gym equipment) will then become the baby's room, when he or she arrives this Spring.

I can't think of a cheaper way to get it all done, plus I'd get to ride up and down the redneck elevator now and then (it takes about 90 seconds to move up or down 10 feet).

Either that, or I could sell some of the gym equipment and audio gear that I don't use so much these days. Nah!!!

[Wmcmanus]

Here's another option, although I don't think it will move any faster. Hercules Vertical Platform Lift - Commercial

Plus, with the attic lift, everything tucks neatly into the ceiling when it's not in use, so you forget that it's there. Whereas this thing would have a constant presence, taking up floor space, and I'd then have to come up with some sort of trap door at ceiling height.

This whole exercise is kind of frustrating. Bottom line is that I've outgrown my house and need to add on some extra space or else de-clutter, and I'm not too good at the latter.

[deepak]

If you have any space what about getting an extension to the house? More sq feet and adds to the resale value.

[Wmcmanus]

If you have any space what about getting an extension to the house? More sq feet and adds to the resale value.

Yup, for sure! I've been talking about adding a home theater room (and some other space) for years now. It's not something I can do right away, though. To make the kind of addition that I have in mind, it will be a pretty expensive investment, plus it will require planning approval and so on. The baby will be here in another 3 months, so I'd like to at least have a bedroom available by then so that I don't have to hear about how my "stuff" is more important to me than my child, yada yada. That, and I'm kind of getting excited about it.

Here's another alternative. http://www.savariaconcord.com/pdf/brochures/telecab.pdf

Quite utilitarian, but probably not nearly as expensive as most home elevators, which can reach $30k in a hurry. I'll have to call them tomorrow for pricing info. What I like about it is that you don't need to prepare a "pit" area under the ground floor landing for this one. Also, most home elevators require that you have structural support along a side wall on all floors, so most of the options out there don't work for attic applications.

This one looks like it will work and might not be too expensive. My guess would be about $10k, but hopefully less. Were I to go this route, then I'd almost for sure convert the attic room into livable space (put in a couple of dormers with windows), but I wouldn't have to put in stairs -- a good thing since there isn't an easy place to do that anyway. It would have to be an elevator like this one or spiral stairs.

Edit:

My guess would be about $10k, but hopefully less.

Doh! Found the price for this on another site. $21,975 plus installation. Forget that!

[Duggeh]

If you don't put in the elevator and do all of the down and up shifting by hand then by the end of the process you wont need to use the gym because you'll be a competition ready powerlifter!

If you didn't live in a hurricane prone part of the world I'd suggest a barn. But I cannot think of a mechanical solution to your situation which is cheap, nor do I think youll find it possible to move large and or heavy objects via a spiral starcase.

Have you considered the hire of some kind of temporary platform for the mechanical lifting which can be sent back to the yard after you're finished, then putting in the cheaper stair option? That might be too much for the floor though compared to what would be put in place for a full installation.

It's an interesting idea in home development. I don't know anybody who has a lift in their house.

[Wmcmanus]

Good ideas, Doug, some of which I've considered. You're right about the barn not working here! I've thought about building a 16' x 24' detached building in the back yard, to serve as a storage shed. But I wouldn't want it to look like crap, so it would have to be concrete block construction and finished exactly like the house itself, including any windows, doors, roofing, etc. That way it wouldn't look out of place.

It could be strategically located in a corner of the back yard such that when I finally get around to building my home theater room (which I've been dying to do but cannot quite afford yet), the detached building would become attached to the then expanded house (with some roof modifications to the previously detached building). That's a real possibility.

In terms of getting things up into the attic, that's no problem, and would just take 2 or 3 Jamaican guys. They can lift anything! But as you say, once a spiral staircase is installed, you couldn't get anything back down unless you put in a dormer with large windows, but then that would present all sorts of other logistical problems (i.e., open the window, and then what?). It might be possible to bolt in the spiral staircase such that it could be removed on rare occasion, pushed aside, and then bolted back in once you've moved stuff up or down, but that's not too practical either.

Thus the attic lift idea to provide as much flexibility as possible and still not break the bank. But then it's not practical or safe for human traffic, so the attic could only be used for storage.

If I have the building constructed in the back yard right away (for storage), the attic idea could be put on hold (not needed right away for storage). Then if ever it was converted to livable space in the future, I'd just have to live with a spiral staircase. There is about 9' of headroom in the center, so it would make a nice room for a teenager one day.

[Duggeh]

How horribly impractical would a linear starcase actually be? Is there only one place where this stair/lift can go (ie, where the existing access is) or could it be put somewhere where there is not currently a hole for it to fit into?

[kevin gilmore]

Get one of the battery powered sissor jacks. You can get ones that

are 3 x 6 feet standing area, and go up about 30 feet. Lots of them available

surplus these days cheap. And since they are portable (as in you can drive them)

you can use it to get to the roof of the house.

Like this except probably one or two sizes smaller.

JLG 3369E Scissors Lift - eBay (item 230425510834 end time Jan-27-10 07:56:41 PST)

[Currawong]

Relatives of mine in Japan living in an apartment with a staircase that folds out of the ceiling which is quite awesome. I'm not sure how readily available such a thing would be where you are, but if the ceiling isn't very high at some point, such as a hallway, it could work well.

Edit: Just saw KG's post: Scissor lifts FTW if you have plenty of flat spaces to drive them around and use them.

[n_maher]

I'm thinking about getting one of these to gain better access to my attic: Products

<snip>

As a structural engineer I feel compelled to tell you that it may not simply be a matter of cutting a hole in your ceiling and installing this lift. The "Framing Specs" section of the first product's website is a joke and could get someone killed. I love their:

It is necessary the attic or storage area be framed for the appropriate load. The builder, Architect, or Engineer should decide and have installed the correct sizing of beams and joists for each individual application.

No shit, really? You mean most attics aren't designed to store much of anything?

So I guess what I'm really trying to say is that don't ignore the complexity involved with safely installing the lift. I'd recommend consulting a professional engineer, not a contractor (no offense to Steve), before doing anything like this. And for the love of Pete, please don't buy a commercial scissor lift and try to use it in your house.

[grawk]

For $10k, I bet you can get a local to bring down the stuff that's up there, and bring up the crates and stuff from your garage.

[xand1x]

at the topic. On a more serious note those lifts are pretty badass

[Aimless1]

Wayne, I've been thinking what Grawk said since I first read this. Any reason you can't simply use one of these attic stairs and hire locals to move the stuff around so you don't do further damage to your knees?

[Wmcmanus]

How horribly impractical would a linear starcase actually be? Is there only one place where this stair/lift can go (ie, where the existing access is) or could it be put somewhere where there is not currently a hole for it to fit into?

The spot I have in mind (which is the most out of the way in terms of traffic flow) would require a small spiral staircase or something like the attic lift, or possibly Kevin's idea of a smallish scissor jack. Actually, that would be quite the conversation piece! But as he said, I could keep it outside and use it to get on the roof, etc.

There are two other spots where regular L-shaped staircases could be put in. You would have to put a landing about 3-4 steps up, then turn 90 degrees and climb the rest of the way up into the attic space. But that's in the front room of the house, so I think it would look a bit awkward there.

There is an archway spanning a 6' wide opening between two large rooms along that wall, so putting in a staircase there would break up the uniformity of that look. Unless, of course, I were to put two L-shaped staircases in, one on each side of the archway, which is another thought I've played around with, but that then doubles the cost and more importantly, takes up twice as much floor space.

[Wmcmanus]

Get one of the battery powered sissor jacks. You can get ones that

are 3 x 6 feet standing area, and go up about 30 feet. Lots of them available

surplus these days cheap. And since they are portable (as in you can drive them)

you can use it to get to the roof of the house.

Like this except probably one or two sizes smaller.

JLG 3369E Scissors Lift - eBay (item 230425510834 end time Jan-27-10 07:56:41 PST)

This would actually be perfect if only there was enough headroom in the attic space above the garage. Problem is, even where the existing attic stairs are (the usual pulldown flimsy attic stairs), there is a/c ductwork in the way, and not nearly enough vertical clearance once you're up there.

So if I'm going to cut a bigger opening in the ceiling joists to allow larger items to be stored up there, I'll have to do it in the living room, right off of the kitchen. Don't think I'd get approval from the other 1/4 for that. She's not my other half officially. I've still got a majority interest in my life at this point, but I think this would violate the peace treaty we made a while ago about house related matters. Basically, I'm free to do anything I want with audio equipment and such, but I can't be doing the kinds of things they do on the Man Show.

As a structural engineer I feel compelled to tell you that it may not simply be a matter of cutting a hole in your ceiling and installing this lift. The "Framing Specs" section of the first product's website is a joke and could get someone killed.

Probably should get an engineer to look at it. I thought I'd be alright installing the attic lift in the corner I have in mind because all of my interior walls are made of concrete block construction with rebar and poured concrete in every other block hole, and very solid extra wide footings down to Mother Earth. Problem is with the pulley system, the weight of the load goes straight down in the 4 corners. Thus, I can't rely on the structural strength of the walls that the motor assembly would be mounted on, since the load gets transferred elsewhere -- to the attic floor as well as the roof joists which is where you tie in the 4"x 4" posts for each corner.

So, ya... it's not something you can assume will work without a glitch. I don't want to be causing sags in my roofline, or worse! But with the right advice, I'm sure there would be a way to put in more vertical support to ensure that wouldn't be a problem since the interior walls are load bearing and can be used to anchor any necessary roof jacks to.

And for the love of Pete, please don't buy a commercial scissor lift and try to use it in your house.

Were it just me, like it's been for 47+ years, that's exactly what I'd do!

[The Monkey]

Wait...baby on the way?

[grawk]

yah, wayne got pregnant at danjam

[Wmcmanus]

Wayne, I've been thinking what Grawk said since I first read this. Any reason you can't simply use one of these attic stairs and hire locals to move the stuff around so you don't do further damage to your knees?

Bad link, but that's Ok.

No reason at all that I couldn't do that, except that I'll probably want to convert the attic into livable space at some point. It has the potential to add 500+ extra square feet of living space. It would be easy enough to put a bathroom up there and use the rest of the space as a huge bedroom or lounge area (pool table and the like).

So one solution would be to simply put in a staircase of one variety or another. Simple. Only problem is that in the meantime, I need to use it for storage space, and thus will need to have a wide opening to get the larger items up and down. Up now for a couple of years of storage, and down whenever stuff needs to come down.

Figured if I put in the attic lift for now, that gives me a chance to clear out the space I'll soon be needing such that a baby's room can be set up. Some of the stuff that needs to go up there won't fit up any staircase I could install given the space limitations.

Once the attic lift is installed (or whatever I might do in lieu of this), I'd double up the floor joists, put in the plywood floor, an a/c system, some basic electrical (wall outlets and lights) and sheetrock the walls and ceiling. It would be quasi livable space but only used for storage for now.

The "redneck elevator" would be fine to use to get myself up and down now and then, but would not be a permanent solution when it turns into livable space (i.e., when I've added storage space elsewhere like in a separate building in the back).

Like I say, it's complicated. Maybe I'm just tired and thinking out loud too much!

BTW another possible use for the attic lift would be to provide a pretty cool balcony seat for movie watching! The lift would be installed toward one of the back corners of my present HT room (which doubles and tripes as my main audio room and my living room). So you could wind it down, hop on, and then wind it about half way back up, and watch a movie while you're sitting on the platform. I could even put one of my D-Box chairs on it.

[Wmcmanus]

yah, wayne got pregnant at danjam

I'm still trying to figure out which one of you bastards did this to me! Due towards the end of April.

[grawk]

What about putting the stairs outside the house? That way you're not eating into existing floor space. It could be a mini-apartment, for when you get kicked out of the main house, and a more isolated man cave the rest of the time.

[The Monkey]

I'm still trying to figure out which one of you bastards did this to me! Due towards the end of April.

Congrats!

[MexicanDragon]

What about building a large window/door area in the attic to the outside of the house that would open out, then use a scissor lift to transfer things to and from ground level (perhaps building a small patio/deck off the upper level, perhaps large enough to throw a couple chairs out to chill on.) That would free up space where you need it, plus allow you have another vehicle to put rims on. If you wanted, with this idea you could even just possibly rent the scissor lift when needed, which would free up a bit of capital. I would say put in the spiral staircase too, though, so you could at least do some things storage wise until it's converted to a proper room.

Thinking about it a little more, however, leads me to believe that the kid would have a pretty pimp way to sneak in the Flavor of the Month (night?) once those teenage years hit if you had a window that fully opened up and had a scissor lift.

Oh, when you wind up going for some other, slowly moving thing... why not supercharge the motor on the lift? I'm sure someone around can do it.

**BRENT**

[Wmcmanus]

What about putting the stairs outside the house? That way you're not eating into existing floor space. It could be a mini-apartment, for when you get kicked out of the main house, and a more isolated man cave the rest of the time.

What about building a large window/door area in the attic to the outside of the house that would open out, then use a scissor lift to transfer things to and from ground level (perhaps building a small patio/deck off the upper level, perhaps large enough to throw a couple chairs out to chill on.) That would free up space where you need it, plus allow you have another vehicle to put rims on. If you wanted, with this idea you could even just possibly rent the scissor lift when needed, which would free up a bit of capital. I would say put in the spiral staircase too, though, so you could at least do some things storage wise until it's converted to a proper room.

Thinking about it a little more, however, leads me to believe that the kid would have a pretty pimp way to sneak in the Flavor of the Month (night?) once those teenage years hit if you had a window that fully opened up and had a scissor lift.

Oh, when you wind up going for some other, slowly moving thing... why not supercharge the motor on the lift? I'm sure someone around can do it.

**BRENT**

You guys are offering some pretty good ideas. Lots here to mull over. I'm trying to think how an exterior entrance into the attic space could work. I really like the idea of busting out a roof dormer that is tall enough to house a set of sliding glass doors and thus also sport a small second floor porch.

My thinking might have been a little uptight on this whole thing! I've always thought about putting a dormer in the front of the house, probably because that's the way people normally do it. Makes for better pics and such. But at the back of the house in the middle part, there is a 20' long porch with 2 sets of 6' wide sliding glass doors (4 doors in total).

It might be possible to mimic the look of the ground floor with 2 sets of glass doors up there, along with a second floor porch. It would have to be set back much further than the porch is on the ground floor, such that the roof line above the doors would be steep enough to clear them and not look like it's hankering down on them. But that's part of what of the design would need to incorporate. In other words, when you start cutting out a large section of roof, you then need to build up higher to cover your newly created area.

I need to take a stroll out into the back yard now!

[MexicanDragon]

Take a camera with you and shoot some pics to give us something to work with visually. Take a picture of the back of the house and also the back of the yard as we as we can probably throw out a few more ideas for the future developments for storage buildings, home theatre tie ins, etc.

**BRENT**

[MexicanDragon]

Take a camera with you and shoot some pics to give us something to work with visually. Take a picture of the back of the house and also the back of the yard as we as we can probably throw out a few more ideas for the future developments for storage buildings, home theatre tie ins, etc.

**BRENT**