Suggestion for a good 45 tube please

[Mr.Shadow]

Hey all,

I was thinking of upgrading my 45 tubes for my custom made SET Headphone amp.

Currently I have a simple ST shape pair (Rytheon or Sylvania, I don't recall).

There are quite a few options, most of them are expensive and some are scary expensive (Like the EML stuff).

The Old NOS ones:

Blue arcturus 145 (probably around 300$ for a NOS pair), If you can find some.

Baloon type 45s (245/345/etc...) NOS, around 250$ a pair for those rare units from 1930-1940, don't know any preferred manufacture.

The New ones:

EML 45- 400/500$ for a pair of Solid Plate/Mesh.

EML 45 Ballon style speical Edition - 600$ a pair.

Sophia Electric 45 - 250$-275$ for a new pair with 30Days warranty.

TJ 45s - around 200$ for a pair.

It will be really nice if someone here has experience with some of the tubes I mentioned above and can shed some light and information on them, currently I am clueless.

Thanks.

[Guest sacd lover]

You can buy various NOS 45s from RES .... Vacuum Tubes Radio Tubes - 5,000 different tubes in stock - Over 10 million tubes! ... with standard 45s for $85 each. For your amp they also sell the 5842 for $13 and the WE 417A is $42. RES also has the 45SPL/ VT52s for $210 each.

I have seen adapters so you can use a 46 vs the 45 .... that could be an option as 46s are $24 each.

Here you go .... http://cgi.ebay.com/45-Tube-Adapter-Use-a-46-or-47-inplace-of-45-PAIR_W0QQitemZ320467266685QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item4a9d566c7d

[recstar24]

If you have the money the EML 45's are the best, way better than the American NOS. I only have experience with the solid plates but a lot of the reading on the web says the solid plates are a bit more neutral and linear. The EML's are super impressive not only in sonics but in build quality.

[Mr.Shadow]

Hey Earl, good to see you

The price for the WE417A is great, I was looking for those and they sell for 150$ a NOS pair, so worth checking out.

Regarding the 45s, I am not sure which one to get, what is considered a good 45 tube and how good are the VT52 compared to the old Balloon types ?

The purpose of the thread was to get feedback and recommendation on which tube to get out of the big bunch.

If you have the money the EML 45's are the best, way better than the American NOS. I only have experience with the solid plates but a lot of the reading on the web says the solid plates are a bit more neutral and linear. The EML's are super impressive not only in sonics but in build quality.

I was afraid of this answer as I wanted to end up with as low damage as possible.

The NOS ones are not cheap either, so it might make sense to stretch the budget and go for the best.

What is the main difference between the EML Solid Plate and the Mesh ? except for the mesh being more expensive in about 100$.

Thanks !

[aerius]

What is the main difference between the EML Solid Plate and the Mesh ? except for the mesh being more expensive in about 100$.

Thanks !

Solid plate has bigger bass and overall it feels a bit more dynamic. The mesh plate is supposed to have better soundstaging & detail but I can't say I really noticed it in the system I heard. My preference is for the solid plates since I like having more bass.

Get the EML's and be done with it, it's always cheaper in the long run to save up your cash and buy the best in one shot instead of spending years on an incremental upgrade path.

[909]

regarding eml, my experience is that nothing sounded as good in my EC2A3 amp as their 2A3 solid plate. granted, i've never tried the holy grail RCA 2A3 black single plate, just too pricey and risky, or the eml mesh since they supposedly have notable reliability issues and don't provide the dynamics that the solid plates do, yet i've tried numerous other NOS and current production 2A3s. you should know that eml still has production and reliability issues and their tubes may not last as long as most others so ensure, if you do get a pair, you buy from an authorized US dealer. and unfortunately, even if you are covered under their warranty, if you have an issue covered under the warranty, jac, the eml go to guy, will probably try to weasel out of it.

Edited January 24, 2010 by 909

[Mr.Shadow]

How much working hours are we talking about ?

I am not listening to my amp a lot, less than ~10 in a week probably.

[recstar24]

On my set of EML 45 solid plates, it worked perfectly for a year and a half with regular use every day, and I believe is still perfectly normal with their current owner. The previous owner of my amp also used EML 45 solid plates for the same time and they never gave him problems. Just buy from an authorized dealer and you should be okay. I bought them from Tubes USA, George Lenz, he is an authorized dealer and offers 1 year warranty which I believe he actually supports and backs up.

[Jon L]

you should know that eml still has production and reliability issues and their tubes may not last as long as most others so ensure,

Was your amp direct-coupled design? Apparently, certain modern tubes including EML have issues with stripping cathodes with turn-on transients if the amp is direct-coupled.

300b tubes

I'm enjoying my EML 2A3 solids on my cap-coupled amp, and I sure hope it lasts a lonnng time.

[recstar24]

Was your amp direct-coupled design? Apparently, certain modern tubes including EML have issues with stripping cathodes with turn-on transients if the amp is direct-coupled.

300b tubes

I'm enjoying my EML 2A3 solids on my cap-coupled amp, and I sure hope it lasts a lonnng time.

I am pretty sure David is referring to his EC2A3, which is cap-coupled between the input 6sl7 and the output 2a3, then transformer coupled. However on my DC coupled moth si2a3/45H I did not experience any problems whatsoever with the EML's.

I believe the older EML's especially when they were still AVVT were the last ones that had the stripping cathode issues and the current production EML;s are perfectly fine.

[Aura]

Just a minor fix, input was 6SN7 on the good ol' EC2A3. I would agree based on past conversations with both David and Ryan that EML should be pretty safe by this point. AVVT is long gone and I've not read anything negative about EML reliability in quite some time.

Also x2 on Ryan's testament to EML 45's, I heard his last Moth running them a few times and they kicked some serious ass in every respect.

[909]

How much working hours are we talking about ?

I am not listening to my amp a lot, less than ~10 in a week probably.

my 2006/7 production eml solid plate 2A3s died within less than a year and with about similar usage.

Was your amp direct-coupled design? Apparently, certain modern tubes including EML have issues with stripping cathodes with turn-on transients if the amp is direct-coupled.

300b tubes

I'm enjoying my EML 2A3 solids on my cap-coupled amp, and I sure hope it lasts a lonnng time.

i am not sure (boy i feel dumb). i could probably hunt thru my old emails or ask craig...

I am pretty sure David is referring to his EC2A3, which is cap-coupled between the input 6sl7 and the output 2a3, then transformer coupled. However on my DC coupled moth si2a3/45H I did not experience any problems whatsoever with the EML's.

I believe the older EML's especially when they were still AVVT were the last ones that had the stripping cathode issues and the current production EML;s are perfectly fine.

yes, that's the amp and the only amendment that i see is it had a 6sn7.

a friend's current production, like a month ago, eml tube left the factory with a socket re-glued and our good friend jac, as nice a punch, wouldn't do much.

Edited January 25, 2010 by 909

[Aura]

a friend's current production, like a month ago, eml tube let the factory with a socket re-glued and our good friend jac, as nice a punch, wouldn't do much.

:/

That's really lame. Maybe best then to go through Tubes USA. IMO it's too much of an investment to risk it. Tyler (Sherwood) is running EML once more with the EC2A3 and hasn't mentioned any issues to me about it. I might ask him where he got his pair just out of curiosity.

[909]

in my experience, the nos, chinese and russian tubes are made better and last longer, but emls sound better and have a bit more modern presentation.

[Mr.Shadow]

Thanks for all the info guys.

I think I will go with the with the EML single plates after all, and buy from one of the authorized dealers.

I will report when I get them.

10x a bunch

[aerius]

How much working hours are we talking about ?

I am not listening to my amp a lot, less than ~10 in a week probably.

From the small sample size of the 3 people I know who have the EML 45's, there have been no failures so far and the oldest set was up to about 5000 hours or so last spring and still going strong. All the tubes are used in either capacitor or transformer coupled amps and run pretty conservatively at about 2/3 of the maximum plate dissipation.

[Mr.Shadow]

I got the tubes today, at last.

What can I say, out of the box without any burn in, they sound amazing I am amazed.

Dynamics and treble have improved significantly, clarity and the lower end resolution have raised to a new level.

There are many new details which came to life.

Instruments have more weight and the sound is BIG, everything seems to have more air and space.

Its a bit hard for me to tell how much of it is due to the EML per se, as I changed all of my tubes at once.

I have also Installed DACT stepped Volume attenuator, which is quite nice over the Alps Blue.

Now for the Pictures:

The whole gang

Some close-ups

I am going to open up a thread with some Porn images of my Amp, stay tuned.