The Quad thread

[Craig Sawyers]

I'll type up all his instructions soon

More on the resistor. I've now got what seems to be the latest schematic for the ESL63. There is a printed circle around R14, for which the schematic value is 100k, but the note says that its value should be selected on test for 5.25kV.

So the summary seems to be:

In early versions there are two VDR's (to compensate for line voltage variation) and two 180k resistors. That was then changed to one VDR, two 220k resistors in series, a 180k and a 56k resistor. It was finally changed to one VDR, two 220k resistors in series, a 180k and a nominal 100k with a note to select this on test to give 5.25kV.

So it would appear that they knew that there was a problem with the version with a 56k resistor, and modified it to ensure that the EHT was set to the original design spec of 5.25kV.

[Hens]

Thanks for all the input guys, Ive decided to move on though, I dont have the right room for them, cant really afford trying to amp them properly and I found that I'd default back to my headphone setup 99% of the time anyway.

I think the 57s do have a really sweet mid range and I would have been really happy with them with a bit of work. However, I still think they lack the resolution that I thought they might have had (unmodified)

[Craig Sawyers]

Thanks for all the input guys, Ive decided to move on though, I dont have the right room for them, cant really afford trying to amp them properly and I found that I'd default back to my headphone setup 99% of the time anyway.

I think the 57s do have a really sweet mid range and I would have been really happy with them with a bit of work. However, I still think they lack the resolution that I thought they might have had (unmodified)

Sorry that the purchase seems to have failed. What I've found is that they don't need to be modified - they just need to be restored to their original condition. That is actually more work and cost than that simple statement implies - but all electrostatics are like this. I had a pair of Martin Logan Aerius in which the E/S panel ceased progressively to function at T=5 years. The ESL63 from Quad has a lifetime of 20 years max (and sometimes much less, depending on how loudly played) before needing a repanel job. I expect current Quad offerings to be no different. My ESL57's were made in 1964 and were *well* in need of some work. Audiostatic, Acoustat, Dayton-Wright and Stax speakers suffered from similar lifetime problems, and there are small specialist companies worldwide involved in their remanufacture and rebuilding - often for love and pretty marginal or zero profit.

So don't be too disheartened that yours might need so TLC

[Hens]

I wouldnt say I am upset, but truth be told, I just prefer headphones overall for now, they suit my lifestyle much better, plus, I cant really afford to go out of my way to amp match the quads at the moment.

[Craig Sawyers]

I wouldnt say I am upset, but truth be told, I just prefer headphones overall for now, they suit my lifestyle much better, plus, I cant really afford to go out of my way to amp match the quads at the moment.

Not entirely sure what you mean by amp match. Originally they would have been used with the Quad II power amp with an output of around 15W. At the end of their production life, they would have been partnered with 405-II with between 50 and 100W. The only difficulty is the wild and difficult load that the '57 presents, something that tubed amps seem to deal with better than transistor ones (which have been know to burst into auto-destruct oscillation).

FWIW I am using an Audio Research D125 hybrid - FETs plus 4x6550 per channel putting out 100W. I bought it second hand about four years ago. Seems to work pretty well, but I'm sure that many amps would do the same job - I suspect that a FET output amp would also be good.

[deepak]

I decided to go down the Maggie route for the time being, since it has been difficult finding a suitable ESL63 around my area and I am in desperate need of some better speakers. I also got a really nice deal on an Adcom GFA-5800 that will suit Maggies. I still plan to end up with electrostats so if a pair of Quads show up that I'm happy with I'll snap them up, if I end up getting a house built before that happens I'll go straight for the big Sound Lab 945 or Ultimate PX-1 in a dedicated listening room.

[Craig Sawyers]

I decided to go down the Maggie route for the time being, since it has been difficult finding a suitable ESL63 around my area and I am in desperate need of some better speakers. I also got a really nice deal on an Adcom GFA-5800 that will suit Maggies. I still plan to end up with electrostats so if a pair of Quads show up that I'm happy with I'll snap them up, if I end up getting a house built before that happens I'll go straight for the big Sound Lab 945 or Ultimate PX-1 in a dedicated listening room.

Maggies are a really good choice. Back around 20 years ago I did a home audition of ESL63's and Maggie MG1C's. I chose the Maggies - they just suited the room acoustics better - the '63's sounded really dull in that room. Then went across to Logan Aerius, then Podium1 (nearly 7 feet tall, distributed mode speakers) and finally now the ESL57's. Kind of full circle....

[mypasswordis]

I almost had a pair of MG I imps + tweeter repair kit for $50. But then I wouldn't have been able to get the Acoustats.

[Craig Sawyers]

I almost had a pair of MG I imps + tweeter repair kit for $50. But then I wouldn't have been able to get the Acoustats.

Tweeter repair on MG1 is not easy - the wire is aluminium (or aluminum depending on the side of the pond), which is easy to zig-zag up the panel, having removed the old tweeter wire, and then to stick down with thin varnish. The problem is making a good solder joint to aluminium wire. There is solder that is supposed to be suitable for aluminium wire, but it is not wonderfully successful. Been there, done that, still got most of a reel of wire and solder.

[mypasswordis]

Yeah I didn't think it was easy but there are some tutorialish things on the internet about how to heat up the wires to make them easier to solder or something that I would have tried. Definitely a bit of a fiddly job, with the aluminum wires being so thin and all... My chance for owning them has passed up so it's all good. I may try retensioning the mylar on my Acoustats sometime.

[deepak]

Thoughts on these?

Quad esl 63's For Sale | AudiogoN

$2600 w shipping seems a bit steep, but it would be around the cost of broken ESLs plus total reconditioning from Estatsolution. I might call to see if he'll accept offers.

[Craig Sawyers]

Thoughts on these?

Quad esl 63's For Sale | AudiogoN

$2600 w shipping seems a bit steep, but it would be around the cost of broken ESLs plus total reconditioning from Estatsolution. I might call to see if he'll accept offers.

Restored by the guy who is selling them, with a 2 year warranty, I'd say that is not too bad a price. He seems to get excellent feedback on AudiogoN. Cruising around his site (Quads Unlimited) he seems to charge $2300 to restore an ESL57 that you supply, or $3500 if he procures and restores. On that scale, $2600 for the restored ESL63 is a reasonable enough deal.

For comparison, the cheapest source that I know is One Thing Audio, and they charge UKP1190 to restore a pair that you supply - so say $1800 plus the purchase cost of the original speakers (plus shipping both ways to the UK, tax etc). Usually for non-UK work the recommend that you take the light weight panels out and just send those, but you need to be confident of your mechanical and electrical skills to disassemble and reassemble.

Of course, these AudiogoN pair might be dogs in some way - so your risk of course;)

Check with him what work, if any, he has done on the power supply, and what the visual appearance is - has he recovered them for example, and what is the condition of the wood caps. What colour is the cover and wood, and is the pair well visually matched?. Are the serial numbers sequential, and how old was the pair. Also does he have a photo gallery of the restoration of this particular pair. What packaging and shipment carrier does he use, and what happens if they arrive busted thrugh some ape man in the carrier using a bill hook.

[audiosceptic]

Thoughts on these?

Quad esl 63's For Sale | AudiogoN

$2600 w shipping seems a bit steep, but it would be around the cost of broken ESLs plus total reconditioning from Estatsolution. I might call to see if he'll accept offers.

Too late, I sent a check to Wayne for these this week. He stated via email that these look brand new and have gone through a total rebuild with new bases and fabric socks. They also come with a 2 year warranty.

I've had 63's before so I know what I'm getting into. Always regretted selling them. I have a nice Graaf GM-20 OTL amp waiting to power these babies. Now I have to figure out a way to sneak these into my room without my wife noticing.

[n3rdling]

Nice, congrats

[Craig Sawyers]

Too late, I sent a check to Wayne for these this week. He stated via email that these look brand new and have gone through a total rebuild with new bases and fabric socks. They also come with a 2 year warranty.

I've had 63's before so I know what I'm getting into. Always regretted selling them. I have a nice Graaf GM-20 OTL amp waiting to power these babies. Now I have to figure out a way to sneak these into my room without my wife noticing.

Congratulations! Let us know what they sound like! And I so understand the sneaking past the wife syndrome; although she is used to it now. Maggies, Martin Logans, Podiums and Quad 57's have all been the subject of "What ON EARTH are those!" over 20-odd years.

[audiosceptic]

I finally received my Quad ESL 63's from Wayne last week although they arrived damaged. The plastic bases on both speakers were cracked, one badly. The damage appears to be only cosmetic because they sound wonderful. I'm listening to these while we figure out how to arrange repairs and thoroughly enjoying the experience. Once I sell some other crap I'll be able to add a DAC to the Duet and complete my speaker system.

[mrarroyo]

Sorry to hear the bases were damaged in transit and I hope you can resolve it quickly. Glad they sound great!

[n3rdling]

Congrats

[Craig Sawyers]

I finally received my Quad ESL 63's from Wayne last week although they arrived damaged. The plastic bases on both speakers were cracked, one badly. The damage appears to be only cosmetic because they sound wonderful. I'm listening to these while we figure out how to arrange repairs and thoroughly enjoying the experience. Once I sell some other crap I'll be able to add a DAC to the Duet and complete my speaker system.

Really glad they sound great! Fine speakers.

Regarding bases, Quad restorers tend to collect a rouges gallery of bits from speakers that were not economically repairable and are scrapped for spares. I would imagine that Wayne would be able to dig out a couple of suitable bases. If not let me know - I'm sure One Thing in the UK will have precisely what you want - and they ship internationally regularly.

[postjack]

So as I mentioned in the other thread, my CDP-2 I purchased used on audiogon a while back (has it been years now?) is slowly falling apart. First, of course, the transport mechanism went out. I can live with that, I just ran a coax out from my Oppo to the player for when I want to spin a silver disc. But now, its official, the right channel is substantially quieter then the left, and even has some distortion and signal drop outs. This happens out of both the fixed outputs and the Quadlink.

which brings me to a few options:

1. Get the CDP-2 repaired by QS&D.

2. Buy another CDP-2 on audigon (I've seen them as low as $450, screaming audio deals).

3. Buy something else.

the wandering side of me likes option 3, since it would be cool to try something new, but I'm still massively leaning towards option one or two. why break up the system, you know? I know it sounds great and I love it.

the only thing is repair could end up being more expensive then buying a used one, but it would give me more piece of mind.

[Craig Sawyers]

3. Buy something else.

the wandering side of me likes option 3, since it would be cool to try something new, but I'm still massively leaning towards option one or two. why break up the system, you know? I know it sounds great and I love it.

the only thing is repair could end up being more expensive then buying a used one, but it would give me more piece of mind.

Depends on what your budget is. I've recently gone to using a TentLabs CD player, which sounds completely stunning - a real giant killer. It is nominally a DIY player (!) but is actually supplied as completed electronics modules, requiring screwing together into the casework and wiring up. Link is here Tentlabs DIY CD player .

I actually got mine in a known not-working condition as payment in lieu for some business advice. Turned out to be a weakness in a power supply regulator, and current production now incorporates my fix. In any case, Tent repaired the unit free of charge without quibble (5 year warranty).

If you don't feel comfortable building the unit, you can pay more and take delivery of a built one.

The caveat is that if your budget is the sort of price for a used CDP-2, the Tent is going to be a very expensive option.

[Grahame]

why not

Buy one from Audiogon. That will give you something to listen to, while you send the other off to get a quote for repair.

When you know how much that will be, you can then decide if its worth it to you, to have it repaired/refurbished.

If you do get it repaired. you can then compare the repaired unit, with the agon unit, keep the one you like + sell/re-cycle the other.

If the repair is not worth it, you've saved yourself the expense, and could still sell it with disclosure of possible repair costs ..

Either way you end up with a known good system that makes you happy, the value of which should not be dismissed lightly.

Unless of course, you are coming down with a bout of audio nervosa, and you are relying on your fellow co-dependent enablers for permission to scratch that itch.

Life is short. Do whatever makes you happy. Sometimes we forget that.

[Voltron]

Dear pussywillow:

You say that your companion hasn't aged well and has really let you down, and yet you want to put more time and money into the relationship. I say move on and try a new partner. Listen to your wandering side because even if you try to repair a broken relationship or even replace an old partner with the same model, so to speak, you're just asking to be let down all over again.

Yours, Abby

[Grahame]

^

Give in to your unspoken urges then? You know you want to

[postjack]

what would you be willing to spend, if you did go down route 3?

Depends on what your budget is.

<snip>

The caveat is that if your budget is the sort of price for a used CDP-2, the Tent is going to be a very expensive option.

Yeah, I'm staying in the $1000-1500 range, which is why the W4S stuff appeals to me.

why not

Buy one from Audiogon. That will give you something to listen to, while you send the other off to get a quote for repair.

When you know how much that will be, you can then decide if its worth it to you, to have it repaired/refurbished.

If you do get it repaired. you can then compare the repaired unit, with the agon unit, keep the one you like + sell/re-cycle the other.

If the repair is not worth it, you've saved yourself the expense, and could still sell it with disclosure of possible repair costs ..

Either way you end up with a known good system that makes you happy, the value of which should not be dismissed lightly.

This is a good idea! Still, I would be out the cost of shipping and whatever QS&D would charge me just for looking at it. Still, fine idea. If I ended up with two working units I could even use one in the headphone rig.

Unless of course, you are coming down with a bout of audio nervosa, and you are relying on your fellow co-dependent enablers for permission to scratch that itch.

Entirely possible! I've never had a system thats pleased me as long as the all-Quad family has, but its hard to deny the desire to explore other gear.

Life is short. Do whatever makes you happy. Sometimes we forget that.

Amen.

Dear pussywillow:

You say that your companion hasn't aged well and has really let you down, and yet you want to put more time and money into the relationship. I say move on and try a new partner. Listen to your wandering side because even if you try to repair a broken relationship or even replace an old partner with the same model, so to speak, you're just asking to be let down all over again.

Yours, Abby

Not sure exactly what you are getting at Abby, but after I read your post I broke up with my girlfriend. Is that what you wanted me to do? Just kidding we are going over the bay to watch the Auburn game tonight with my family for my Dad's birthday. tenderloin on the grill!

Give in to your unspoken urges then? You know you want to

I'll definitely be exploring various DAC options. There is tons of DAC info just on HC alone. Having said that, it has brought me great satisfaction having the "all-Quad" system. It sounds great, and even if there is a certain amount of bullshit to the idea, I like feeling that these components were "made for each other". makes me feel warm and happy.