New, Cheap Dynalo...

[Azazel]

Ah, good bussiness thinking...

[n_maher]

Or you could just be like other man'f and tell them the gain is X when in reality it isn't.

[spritzer]

If people don't understand gain then they really don't need an honest answer anyway.

[Maniac]

Or you could just be like other man'f and tell them the gain is X when in reality it isn't.

Nah, there are some headphones that REALLY needs the gain. If I claim the gain is low when it is actually high, people with sensitive phones is still gonna be pissed that they are stuck at 7~8 o'clock position. If I claim the gain is 11 while it is like 3, users of K240DF, K271 and such might wonder why they can't hear much even with the volume turn up to the max.

IMHO, honesty here is the way to go, as most users are knowledgeable about their preferences and choices.

I briefly thought about selectable gain, but decided against it. As the current design does not have any easy way to add it without LONG wires to connect it to a switch somewhere. Might as well have it soldered in properly.

Thanks

David

[Maniac]

If people don't understand gain then they really don't need an honest answer anyway.

If they do not understand gain, then they would just go for default, since it got "bigger" gain, appears more powerful and does not cost a penny extra.

[Beefy]

Nah, there are some headphones that REALLY needs the gain. If I claim the gain is low when it is actually high, people with sensitive phones is still gonna be pissed that they are stuck at 7~8 o'clock position. If I claim the gain is 11 while it is like 3, users of K240DF, K271 and such might wonder why they can't hear much even with the volume turn up to the max.

If the volume goes to max, then you will get clipping.

Work it out...... assume a standard 2VRMS source, which works out to 5.6V peak to peak. A Dynalo should be able to push 15V P-P. So at 0dBfs, you can can clip at a gain of just 3.

If they do not understand gain, then they would just go for default, since it got "bigger" gain, appears more powerful and does not cost a penny extra.

Which is fantastic, until they come back to earth, and realise that more than 3/4 of the range of the pot is useless.

[n_maher]

Which is fantastic, until they come back to earth, and realise that more than 3/4 of the range of the pot is useless.

And complain about channel matching with sensitive headphones/IEMs.

[Azazel]

And complain about channel matching with sensitive headphones/IEMs.

Quod Erat Demostrandum

[rayk]

I hate amplifiers with too much gain: they create noise and they do not allow you to use the best part of the pot (many times I found myself with volume levels under '9 oclock', the worse part of a potentiometer).

Can you elaborate why anything below 9' o'clock position is worse part of potentiometer?

[Maniac]

If the volume goes to max, then you will get clipping.

Work it out...... assume a standard 2VRMS source, which works out to 5.6V peak to peak. A Dynalo should be able to push 15V P-P. So at 0dBfs, you can can clip at a gain of just 3.

Which is fantastic, until they come back to earth, and realise that more than 3/4 of the range of the pot is useless.

Actually I thought about that too, but I've found out that there are a lot of sources that can't put out 2VRMS for various reasons. DynaLo should be able to put out a bit more than 15V P-P, I can't recall the exact figure, but I think I saw something in the 20ish zone when I was driving it to clipping on my scope.

You know, as often as there are good rules and habits, there are manufacturers that breaks it for one reason or another. That's one of the problem that I've seen some user have, and of course, there are sources with nutty RCA output level of over 5VRMS. It would be perfect if everyone can tailor their setup themselves to exactly fit their need, but to be honest, even I get tired of building stuff for my own use.

Thanks

David

[Maniac]

Can you elaborate why anything below 9' o'clock position is worse part of potentiometer?

Due to the nature of pot manufacturing, and the log curve required makes it very difficult to make the first section of the pot uniformly as they (or we) liked. However, from what I found out, if there's not much imbalance, the pot actually does not degrade the sound that much. If you use digital volume control on your computer, it will actually cause it to degrade a lot more than that.

That's one of the reason that quality stepped attenuator and quality pots are asking for big bucks.

[rayk]

Thanks, David that's very informative!

How come using computer volume will degrade the sound? From what I understand if you are using kernel streaming, doesn't foobar do it's processing in 32bit (or 64, can't remember) float before it dithers and sends the data to the dac anyway? So lowering the volume in it has neglectable effect on sound quality?

Well I lowered my foobar output to -35dB, now I can have my pot at 10 o'clock position, didn't notice any difference - still sounds just as good. I was thinking of getting attenuators for the rca in since I don't trust myself to solder the resistor in, but I'm thinking I might just trust foobar more unless someone can convince me to do otherwise. Asking here since I wouldn't trust the responses at that "other" place.

[Maniac]

I wonder if your setup can allow you to try no attenuation on the computer side and see if there's any difference? I have not really tried foobar's volume control, but most others me and some of my customers had tried has been that as long as there SOME digital attenuation, the damage will be there, doesn't matter how much you attenuate it.

[rayk]

I see interesting, I'm going to try some -14dB goldenjacks to see if it will be enough not to have foobar attenuate at all. Even with corda swing I still needed -15dB on foobar to be able to get above 9'oclock position. Having a read online, it does seem that goldenjacks would be the cleanest method to attenuate - but where there I will tell the difference or not is another matter.

Of course part of my problem is the fact anything above 53dB starts sounding too loud for my ears haha.

[Beefy]

I had huge problems with the Swing's precursor, the Arietta, and volume levels that were too high. With a 2VRMS source, even at the minimum volume level on the pot, it was too loud for casual listening with my sensitive AD900. At the time, Goldenjacks were indeed the temporary solution.

In the end, I upgraded to a much better amp with a lower gain that solved all my problems. My DIY M3 with a gain of 2 was better in every possible way.

Moral of the story? Keep the gain low. And don't buy stupid/weird designs that still put out significant volume even when the pot is at minimum.

[rayk]

Yeah, sadly no other option for me beefy - unless I take it with me when I visit parents and get my dad to solder in the resistor.

Anyway, just tried the HD650s with the amp, with 0dB attenuation from foobar, I can't get past 7'oclock on the amp... I'm using dacmagic which outputs 2.1Vrms so it's not my source. So yeah I can't imagine anyone needing this much gain unless they like listen super loud.

Otherwise that's pretty nice, didn't think dynalo would have the grunt to excite these enough but it does - shame they are a boring set of headphones .

[cetoole]

The few times I can see people needing a lot of gain are when they use very inefficient headphones playing music that isnt recorded anywhere near 0dBfs. The rest seems to be perception of amplifier power by people who just dont understand gain.

[atothex]

The ortho nerds tend to need some more gain than most of us. Owners of old AKGs as well. But yeah, unity or 2x gain is probably fine for me.

[mypasswordis]

The ortho nerds tend to need some more gain than most of us. Owners of old AKGs as well. But yeah, unity or 2x gain is probably fine for me.

Don't forget the stat nerds. Interestingly, I am part of all three camps.

[LarsMarkelson]

I just ordered one, Christmas gift from me to me.

Any update here? How do you like it?

I just ordered one myself, will do mini-review when I receive it.

[GPH]

I posted a few thoughts in the JH13 thread, I thought everybody on HC was reading that thread.

But seriously, I've been really pleased with my purchase. It took a while to receive the amp, because on the first shipment it arrived with a dead channel in a totally beat up box. David, the guy behind Acoustic Fun, handled everything very professionally, keeping constant communication and fixed things as fast as he could.

The amp construction is very solid from the outside and I dig its industrial look. I haven't opened it, but there are some pics of the internals on their website if you're interested.

I can't comment much further on the sound than what I already did in the JH13 thread, because frankly I haven't listened to that many amps in my life and I have no other amps right now to compare to. It shouldn't be hard to find Dynalo impressions here and on Head-fi though.

One thing I didn't mention is that apart from being used with the JH13, I also use the Dynalo as a preamp for my active 11L with the loop outputs. I haven't done serious A/B listening, but I could swear my speaker rig sounds better than it did previously when I controlled the volume using the Squeezebox digital volume, and I find it more convenient to turn a knob than having to use the remote.

[oogabooga]

Hey Guillaume (did I spell that right)?

I'm happy to lend you my GLite for a week if you want to A/B the two amps. It's the older version 1 amp, but whatever. Shipping to and from Mississauga shouldn't be too much.

Of course if you are ever in Toronto, that'd work do. Je ne pense que be in Montreal anytime soon, malheuresement.

[GPH]

Thanks for the offer mate, but I don't think it'll be worth the effort. From my understanding, the GLite and Dynalo should be very similar, since the GLite is based on the original Dynalo and I'm not really the kind of guy to spend countless hours trying to hear the small (existing or non-existing) differences. I don't plan to go to Toronto anytime soon, but I'm applying for internships these days so I'll remember the offer if end up there!

What's scary is that one of the reasons why I bought the JH13 was to have a small and not too expensive rig, I thought the Dynalo would cure the upgraditis, but on the contrary, I still have ideas of grandeur such as Beta 22 and Luxman amps.

Edited February 9, 2010 by GPH

[Voltron]

The Luxman is very sleek and low-profile.

[episiarch]

I think it would actually be quite interesting to compare an HA-006+ with a Gilmore Lite and, if possible, a GS-1 -- though with a range of headphones, not just JH13s. Certainly a Gilmore Lite and a GS-1 exhibit audible differences (especially in dynamic passages) and it would be nice to know where the HA-006+ falls in comparison.

Edit: by audible differences I don't mean things that require hours of listening to pick out -- in this case I mean I really did not want to learn that my beloved GLite was so thoroughly bested by its bigger and more expensive brother, but the realization was rapidly forced on me. YMMV.