The L3000s rule

[Dusty Chalk]

..."I just got a XXXXXX and it's the best shit ever!"...

Speaking of which, I just got an L3000, and it is the best shit ever! Or, "...evar!" That I owned, anyway. ("That I pwned, anywayz.")

[philodox]

L3000 sucks.

[n_maher]

L3000 sucks.

You going to pick up those bargin K340s for sale at *thesitethatshallnotbenamed*??

I mean come on, they've already been knocked down $150.

[Dusty Chalk]

L3000 sucks.

You keep telling yourself that.

[TheSloth]

You keep telling yourself that.

Slightly stupid question, but how would you compare the tonality to the Quad monitors?

[Dusty Chalk]

That's the new reference, isn't it? I have to admit, I find myself comparing a lot of things to the Quad 12L's.

They're completely different. I'm sure I'll get different results with some judicious tuberolling, but right now, in my amp, these are seriously basshead headphones. Almost PS-1 bass. And I don't find the Quads bassy at all. And you know that slight emphasis in the ...erm... emphasis region? The L3000 doesn't have that at all -- if anything, it has a slight midrange suckout (very slight...and maybe -- I might just still be getting used to the bass emphasis, and I'm hearing that as a suckout) with my current amp and set of tubes. It's hard to tell -- I've only had 40 minutes with them so far (Talk Talk's The Colour of Spring SACD).

[TheSloth]

That's the new reference, isn't it? I have to admit, I find myself comparing a lot of things to the Quad 12L's.

They're completely different. I'm sure I'll get different results with some judicious tuberolling, but right now, in my amp, these are seriously basshead headphones. Almost PS-1 bass. And I don't find the Quads bassy at all. And you know that slight emphasis in the ...erm... emphasis region? The L3000 doesn't have that at all -- if anything, it has a slight midrange suckout (very slight...and maybe -- I might just still be getting used to the bass emphasis, and I'm hearing that as a suckout) with my current amp and set of tubes. It's hard to tell -- I've only had 40 minutes with them so far (Talk Talk's The Colour of Spring SACD).

That's interesting. I only ever heard the L3K briefly and it was the only AT I could listen to without being immediately bothered by an obvious colouration, though that was under meet conditions.

Those QUAD's are a fantastic reference in many ways, though if I was any good at DIY I'd open them up and get going on that amplifier section - could do with some parts upgrades for sure.

[Dusty Chalk]

That's interesting. I only ever heard the L3K briefly and it was the only AT I could listen to without being immediately bothered by an obvious colouration, though that was under meet conditions.

You didn't hear the bass? Or do you mean, you didn't hear any obvious colouration besides the obvious bass colouration? (Aside: I knew that going in, so I'm not disappointed.)

It does have an otherwise cleanliness to the sound that I haven't heard out of any other headphone I can think of (maybe a high-end electrostat). Maybe that's what you heard.

Have you heard the AT-100Ti? I love my pair of those, too.

Those QUAD's are a fantastic reference in many ways, though if I was any good at DIY I'd open them up and get going on that amplifier section - could do with some parts upgrades for sure.

What, you mean mod the amps in there? No way! I might screw it up, let out the magic smoke.

That said, I am opening them up, as one of my next speakers is going to be a DIY design, and (again) the Quad will be my reference. (Actually, it's a LS3/5a-based design -- not so much a DIY design as mostly a plagiarism.) But I'll be opening it up to see what kind of drivers it has, etc. I'll take pictures when I do. I'll be using the Quad as more of a audio reference than mechanical reference.

[philodox]

You keep telling yourself that.

Will do.

[thrice]

Glad you're enjoying the L3000 dude...it's something special. Although the Lambda Pro seems to be trumping it at my house right now...of course I don't own a pair of L3000...just a freaky hybrid L3000/W100. But I get that tonality comment. They're spot on.

[TheSloth]

That said, I am opening them up, as one of my next speakers is going to be a DIY design, and (again) the Quad will be my reference. (Actually, it's a LS3/5a-based design -- not so much a DIY design as mostly a plagiarism.) But I'll be opening it up to see what kind of drivers it has, etc. I'll take pictures when I do. I'll be using the Quad as more of a audio reference than mechanical reference.

I'd add two fixed resistors to bypass that somewhat low quality potentiomemter, along with a switch to switch between the two modes. I wish they'd done that in the first place actually. Looking forward to seeing some pics - would love to know what is actually in those amps.

[tkam]

Yeah the L3000 do rule

[TheSloth]

You didn't hear the bass? Or do you mean, you didn't hear any obvious colouration besides the obvious bass colouration? (Aside: I knew that going in, so I'm not disappointed.)

It does have an otherwise cleanliness to the sound that I haven't heard out of any other headphone I can think of (maybe a high-end electrostat). Maybe that's what you heard.

Have you heard the AT-100Ti? I love my pair of those, too.

I only heard them for a short while, but yes I was referring to a relatively clean midrange, relative to the usually rather forward AT upper midrange. I didn't really notice the bass actually, but it was during noisy meet conditions which tend to obscure such things anyway.

[acs236]

I agree with you, Sloth, about the odd coloration of the L3000. Other AT's have a similar coloration, too. I couldn't get passed it.

[Dusty Chalk]

Well, I listened some more last night, and the bass has calmed down significantly. Maybe my amp just needed warming up (hadn't used it in a while). Also, that Talk Talk SACD seems to be mastered with rather significant bass.

[Dusty Chalk]

Okay, I've been listening to these a lot, and I gotta say something. These may have the weirdest tonality of any headphone I liked, ever. What is it with these things? It still has that cleanliness -- it appears to, with almost every amplifier I've thrown at it (I've thrown: the Singlepower Supra++, Creek OBH-11SE, Wheatfield HA-2, and the Radii HAP-02). And the bass appears to come and go -- not really, I think it's more the fact that it's noticeable that comes and goes, depending on the music. And it still has that razor sharp separation/isolation/what's the word for when you can pick out each instrument, but there's no soundstage? But the upper frequencies sound a bit rolled off -- and when I say rolled off, I mean seriously -- I thought the DAC was out of sync again. And I don't think there's anything wrong with them, because I compared them to Hirsch's, and Hirsch's do the same thing. They're a little bit more broken in, so they have a better upper frequency extension, but other than that, they sound the same.

So if it was the bass, I'd say there was an impedance dip that I'm hearing, because the frequency response appears to be a function of the music -- I.E. the busier the music, the more apparent this characteristic is audible. But it appears to be in the upper region. Haven't done any frequency sweeps yet, but I have a feeling it won't be audible with frequency sweeps, as that is not busy music.

Has anyone done a frequency response of this yet? Tyll? How about an impedance sweep? Does Headroom even do that for other headphones? Does anyone have the capability to measure an impedance sweep of these?

Is it possible that there's something touching the drivers from the other side? Would that manifest itself this way? Or do I just need a better amp. Of the above amps, guess which amp drove it the best (so far, without tuberolling): the Radii HAP-02 (go figure). And by "the best", I don't mean "the best overall", I mean "the best with regards to this characteristic". I haven't heard it with the Earmax Pro yet (Hirsch was going to tuberoll it), but I would really like to, since that was the combination I heard it and fell in love with it on.

Hirsch, did you listen to yours again on the EMP?

Or do I just need to burn it in again? The previous owner didn't use it much towards the end.

I've heard from another L3000 owner, and he said that he heard the same thing, and that it took him a year to get used to it.

Is there any discussion of this over there at that other place?

[hirsch]

Hirsch, did you listen to yours again on the EMP?

Not yet, and probably not until I get back to town after upcoming trip. It was sounding weird the other day. Not unlike a more detailed W2002. Signature Audio-Technica midrange suckout, which I hadn't really heard on that headphone before.

[tkam]

Sorry Dusty, your post doesn't make a whole lot of sense . I think the L3000 have a fantastic tonality in fact its one of their best strengths IMO. Going to disagree with on the rolled off treble aspect as well. Sure they don't have qualia or k1000 type treble extension but they really aren't rolled off.

[Dusty Chalk]

Sorry Dusty, your post doesn't make a whole lot of sense . I think the L3000 have a fantastic tonality in fact its one of their best strengths IMO. Going to disagree with on the rolled off treble aspect as well. Sure they don't have qualia or k1000 type treble extension but they really aren't rolled off.

I agree that I don't make a lot of sense -- I'm having a hard time describing this to someone who hasn't heard it for themselves. It's not really a rolloff, it's...it's like a darkness, but without any encroachment on the detail...again, it might just be a reverse plateau, if that makes sense, and I'm not hearing the lowered upper half the way I'd like. And maybe it's not "busy music" that triggers it, but "bassy music".

And I'm not hearing it as a midrange suckout, but it does affect vocals. So I don't know...maybe it is...

[hirsch]

And I'm not hearing it as a midrange suckout, but it does affect vocals. So I don't know...maybe it is...

It's what I heard on two different pairs of W2002's, and the reason I never kept the headphone. I'll check with EMP today, time permitting. The only other decent AT I've heard is the #2 version of the W100, but I don't own that anymore. If I hear that signature in the future, that headphone is getting sold, and replaced by an OII. Come to think of it, AT is about due for another Limited Edition can in Japan...

[hirsch]

Having been cued in to it, a similar sonic signature is apparent in L3000 using EMP. The difference is that is isn't objectionable on that amp. In fact, it sounds natural and clear. However, I can still hear the tonal qualities that were bothersome in the other rigs.

I'd really like Tyll to get a frequency response on this sucker.

[Dusty Chalk]

Having been cued in to it, a similar sonic signature is apparent in L3000 using EMP. The difference is that is isn't objectionable on that amp. In fact, it sounds natural and clear. However, I can still hear the tonal qualities that were bothersome in the other rigs.

Well, if you sell the L3000, and then decide to sell the EMP because you don't need it any more, please sell it to me first. (I.E., "Dibs!")

(Yes, I know, unlikely that you will sell the EMP -- it is a nice totable amp, and it works well with other headphones.

But...you know...just in case -- I want to state that my interest is there.)

I'm going to start tuberolling my amps to see which one drives it the best.

Any theories on why the EMP works so well with it?

[Dusty Chalk]

Okay, just doing a rough assessment, based on the Bink audio test CD there appears to be a huge suckout somewhere between 5K and 8K (I.E. track 39 was severely attenuated, compared to tracks 38 and 40). I tried EQing it with just the basic WinAmp EQ (played with the 6K slider), and it did nothing. What region does this represent again? I can't seem to find the page that had all those definitions on it. I want to say "definition".

Hmmm...

[Dusty Chalk]

Anyone else have a pair of L3000's? I wouldn't mind if you tried the above test. Please.

Mine seem to have "re-burned in". Hirsch, before you get rid of yours, you may want to try using them again. I'm wondering if it's a settling problem.

Or perhaps I'm just using the right tubes/amp. (Switched to Singlepower Supra++ w/CBS Hytrons.)

[tkam]

Okay, just doing a rough assessment, based on the Bink audio test CD there appears to be a huge suckout somewhere between 5K and 8K (I.E. track 39 was severely attenuated, compared to tracks 38 and 40). I tried EQing it with just the basic WinAmp EQ (played with the 6K slider), and it did nothing. What region does this represent again? I can't seem to find the page that had all those definitions on it. I want to say "definition".

Hmmm...

I just did that test and track 39 sounded at the same level as 38 and 40.