Speed, what really is it?

[dw1narso]

Hi Head-casers,

I've been thinking a lot of time about speed (or perceived speed?) of the phones...

How come that I could feel that one phone sounds faster than the other while both of them can produce or reach about the same frequency spectrum (eg. ES compared to dynamic)? Without comparing, it is difficult to hear that perceived speed, but switching from HD650 to STAX and vise versa that "speed" difference become very audible. What I mean by speed in this case is the "free flowing" or un-congested sense of the music through the phones.... Is this the right term to understand it as the "speed"?

How come that a driver that can vibrate good at 10Khz or so (dynamic phone, such as HD650) still felt sounds slower than a driver (on lower grade of Yamaha ortho) that might not even reach that high?

How come that Stax (lower end) that I hear faster than HD600/650, but still deliver less details than the HDs?

So, what really takes on the phone or phone drivers that we sense as speed?

Could somebody help me understand the situation, please?

Thanks, David

[Duggeh]

Speed is the distance travelled divided by the time taken to get there.

Electrostatic drivers move a smaller distance per swing than a coil.

If the distance is smaller and the time instance the same. The speed will be greater.

[Dreadhead]

Speed is the distance travelled divided by the time taken to get there.

Electrostatic drivers move a smaller distance per swing than a coil.

If the distance is smaller and the time instance the same. The speed will be greater.

Correction:

If the distance is greater and the time instance the same. The speed will be greater.

[Duggeh]

Correction:

If the distance is greater and the time instance the same. The speed will be greater.

Wewps, head full of sawdust this afternoon. Feels like it anyway.

Smaller distance, but greater proportional difference in speed and thus greater proportional difference in go, stop and turn-go time (because of lighter mass of diaphragm) and more uniform control of diaphragm (distributed motive force). Means less bleed of one movement into the next.

Am I droning here?

[mypasswordis]

On top of the differences between electrostatics and dynamics, look up slew rate, damping factor, and some waterfall plots. Yes, electrostats do seem worse, at least with the plots I've seen. Might as well look up resonance while you're at it, too. Both free air and differing amounts of closed.

[cetoole]

You have seen CSD plots for electrostatic headphones? The speaker measurements I have seen have generally been worse than comparable dynamic speakers, but I never have seen any for headphones. Do share.

[mypasswordis]

Omega 2 + 717

ƒwƒbƒhƒzƒ“ STAX SR-007 SRM-717

SRS-4040

ƒwƒbƒhƒzƒ“ STAX SRS-4040

Only frequency response for 2020...

ƒwƒbƒhƒzƒ“ STAX SRS-2020

K701

ƒwƒbƒhƒzƒ“ AKG K701

HD800

http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/hd800.html

etc

[cetoole]

Interesting. Looks like pretty complete measurements. Wish I could read the text though. I wonder how the CSD is measured. I recall Audeze saying they were doing it on a baffle from 1m, and I would expect that an electrostatic diaphragm which is meant to be sealed to the head would lose significant damping measured in this manner.

[Dusty Chalk]

1m sounds like a speaker measurement.

[cetoole]

It sure does, but unless I am very mistaken, that is how Audeze was claiming to measure the CSD of their headphones.

[Dusty Chalk]

That's pretty ...uh... "out there".

[cetoole]

Ok, I dunno where I got the 1m bit from, but they say it was measured on an IEC baffle.