Speakers for $1000?

[TheSloth]

Was aimlessly poking around and came across these powered monitors: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MAudioEXSeriesEX66ReferenceMonitors-focus.html.

Assuming it is accurate (why shouldn't it be from a reputable company with real testing facilities?), this is one of the best FR graphs I've ever seen from a speaker:

+/- 0.5dB from 50hz to 19k?! I know FR isn't everything in a speaker, but when listening all too often am I hearing things out of place from the transducers I've owned, with respect to certain frequencies.

[tkam]

FR really doesn't matter all that much and honestly most decent speakers have a pretty flat FR response.

[TheSloth]

FR really doesn't matter all that much and honestly most decent speakers have a pretty flat FR response.

Don't really agree with that, but then it can be somewhat music dependant. We are quite tolerant to FR aberrations, but even +/-3dB measurements are half or double the energy. Depends what you are listening for, but in the end if one assumes that the distortion is low enough to be inaudible, the delicate harmonic balance of any 'real life' instrument can be destroyed by one 3dB peak somewhere. As someone who works with such instruments daily, I've heard very, very few transducers at any price point that don't mess it up somewhere, and though there are other ways to mess up the reproduction of a sound wave, in my experience the problems have been at least partially found in the frequency domain.

Of course, that has nothing to do with any of the 'audiophile' terms such as soundstage, dynamics, pace, and whatever else you want to throw at it, and I agree that these are other factors in good reproduction, but for my ears (tuned rather specifically I must admit) no other quality of reproduction can make up for a flawed harmonic series. Flat response doesn't guarantee great performance, but to my ears it is a prerequisite.

And back to the original posting purpose, though I've seen 'relatively' flat response measurements, I've never seen anything like that with a +/-0.5dB deviation within most of the audible band. To my ears, 2 or 3dB is a big deal.

[humanflyz]

The FR graph looks pretty good, but I wonder how that will be altered when these speakers are placed in a real room instead of an acoustically-dead studio control room.

[TheSloth]

The FR graph looks pretty good, but I wonder how that will be altered when these speakers are placed in a real room instead of an acoustically-dead studio control room.

Well that's always the question isn't it, but as all graphs of that type are taken in anechoic chambers, I see no particular reason to expect that this speaker would fare worse than any other in general.

[Dusty Chalk]

The FR graph looks pretty good, but I wonder how that will be altered when these speakers are placed in a real room instead of an acoustically-dead studio control room.

I'm guessing the same as any other speakers. It's a good start, though.

Dang, that is flat. I'll see if I can find my HR824 freq graphs. I vaguely remember them being pretty flat, though they don't sound it.

[Dusty Chalk]

Well, can't find one for the HR824 (which makes sense, because they're all measured individually), but you can find one for the HR626 at the end of the owner's manual (PDF). Looks pretty flat to me. Don't forget to look at the units. At first, I thought it had a 1db hump at 2kHz that the M-Audio didn't have, but then I looked at the units. It's got humps, they're just broader.

[TheSloth]

Well, can't find one for the HR824 (which makes sense, because they're all measured individually), but you can find one for the HR626 at the end of the owner's manual (PDF). Looks pretty flat to me. Don't forget to look at the units. At first, I thought it had a 1db hump at 2kHz that the M-Audio didn't have, but then I looked at the units. It's got humps, they're just broader.

That's pretty close indeed. But I'd still call that +1/-.05 vs. +/-0.5 for the M-Audio. I find it technically interesting that it doesn't seem to be that difficult to build a speaker that, save for bass extension, measures basically ruler flat. It seems that the 'hi-fi' companies are going for those other intangibles that I mentioned earlier, at the expense of a bit of that flatness, or are sometimes purposely avoiding that flatness for a particular 'sound'.

Anyway, I'd love to hear these speakers just out of curiosity as to how the graph translates in real listening conditions.

[aerius]

Was aimlessly poking around and came across these powered monitors: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MAudioEXSeriesEX66ReferenceMonitors-focus.html.

Assuming it is accurate (why shouldn't it be from a reputable company with real testing facilities?), this is one of the best FR graphs I've ever seen from a speaker:

If I had to take a guess, there's a crapload of EQ in there to make the response that flat, plus they did a whole bunch of smoothing on the curve to make it flatter yet.

[Dusty Chalk]

It's funny, I was just reading this, in which the author does a pretty good job of explaining the different schools of thought behind speaker design without "getting behind" any one in an obvious non-journalistic manner, and yet still acknowledging his bias.

Also, I was noticing something about GR Research's "improvements" on the Insignias. If you look at the three frequency responses, most of the improvements in the frequency response were accomplished by the crossover. But from all reports, it is undeniable that reinforcing the cabinet markedly improves the bass, "tightening it up". I have a feeling this would be more obvious in a waterfall response plot than any frequency response plot such as the ones we are looking at.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't put all your stock in frequency response plots.

[TheSloth]

I have a feeling this would be more obvious in a waterfall response plot than any frequency response plot such as the ones we are looking at.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't put all your stock in frequency response plots.

I wish I knew how to interpret waterfall plots with ease. Any tips?

[Dusty Chalk]

It's basically a frequency response plot with a time element added in. The time element is moving towards you as time progresses, so the perfect waterfall would be a flat cliff -- starts off at full amplitude equally across the frequency (that would be towards the back), then all frequencies immediately attenuate quickly, I.E. slopes down very quickly to the floor towards you. Does that make sense?

[aerius]

I wish I knew how to interpret waterfall plots with ease. Any tips?

Read this By the time you get to the end of all 5 or 6 pages, you should have it pretty much figured out.

[yashicaman]

Quad 12L actives are bloody amazing and might be had on ebay for around 600 bucks or so (if you get lucky).

There are other places to get the regular 12L series speakers and they are stellar.

The 11L's are not bad, but they ain't the 12L's.

Great monitor speakers. Add a decent subwoofer if you crave more bass. I had a decent subwoofer (ACM Ace-Bass B1-20) so I use it with my active 12L's.

I can't think of anything better for under 1K.

Cheers!

[luvdunhill]

sorry, due to inflation in the last 2 years, the budget is now $2000.

[freckling]

It might be pushing it considering the size of your room, but take a look at some Paradigm Studio 60's. I bought a pair used for my parents at $550, but since the room they placed it in is a total mess, I can't tell how good the soundstaging is (there's a sofa directly in front of one of the speakers, etc.) Either way, for the price, I really liked them. Audiogon will become your best friend while you're trying to find speakers/amps.

As an aside, does anyone know how they would position speakers in a room that's fairly square like his?

[deepak]

Newbs need to stop grave bumping threads.

[ojnihs]

nice...a good two years late

[n_maher]

I'd say his second post was only marginally better than the first, despite relevant content. Banstick warming...

[freckling]

I'll pay more attention to post dates, but I'm sorry if I'm not accustomed to 2 year old threads (or month old threads for that matter) being "active" on the front page of a forum. Chill out.

[n_maher]

I'll pay more attention to post dates, but I'm sorry if I'm not accustomed to 2 year old threads (or month old threads for that matter) being "active" on the front page of a forum. Chill out.

Wow, your fail grows stronger. Read more, post less, you'll get the idea. Or you won't.

[Voltron]

I'll pay more attention to post dates, but I'm sorry if I'm not accustomed to 2 year old threads (or month old threads for that matter) being "active" on the front page of a forum. Chill out.

[ojnihs]

I'll pay more attention to post dates, but I'm sorry if I'm not accustomed to 2 year old threads (or month old threads for that matter) being "active" on the front page of a forum. Chill out.

lol. sinking further into the shitter