Bach and the Virtuoso

[luvdunhill]

What pieces by Bach do you consider to require exceptional individual virtuosity? I'm more referring to technical prowess than interpretation, etc.

Opinions?

[GPH]

Any specific instrument? His organ transcriptions of Vivaldi concertos sound pretty epic to me, but it's hard to compare the technical difficulty of the organ with the violin for example.

[mypasswordis]

There were over a dozen Bachs who were all composers, most of them probably related in some way to the most famous one, Johann Sebastian Bach.

That said, JS Bach was big into organ and harpsichord music, since that's what he played. Not too familiar with that, except the Goldberg Variations, of course.

[luvdunhill]

no, I'd like to open it up to everything. I haven't heard the above for example, so this thread is already serving it's purpose well.

Good point about the composer's "native" instrument though...

[Dusty Chalk]

I found the three-part inventions harder to play than the two-part inventions, if that helps.

Just from listening to them: definitely the Goldberg variations.

Justin, can you comment on the violin concertos? They sound pretty hard to me, but I wouldn't know where they rank in the large scale of things.

I have to admit to not being that familiar with him, other than (a) what I was required to play by my teacher, which was mostly the two- and three-part inventions, IIRC; and ( the more famous pieces, with would be that famous organ fugue, the Goldberg variations, and some of the concertos.

[mypasswordis]

The two violin concertos are easy. The double concerto is a bit harder, along with the Brandenburg concertos. Solo Sonatas and Partitas are toughest, and of course the Bach cello suites are pretty tough as well.

Obligatory douchey music major comment: The beauty of classical music is there are always things to be improved and seemingly easy to play pieces can be very hard, depending on how strict you are on yourself and how much you want to develop the composers' ideas.

[Dusty Chalk]

Agreed, but it sounds like the OP knew that, from his OP.

And: thanks.

[mypasswordis]

The thing is, developing musical ideas is part of technique, or at least they go hand in hand. If you're missing out on the intentions of the composer, you're not really playing the piece, just going through the motions.

/end douchey music major comment

[Dusty Chalk]

Agreed (you're talking to Mr. "the two are not mutually exclusive!" here), but the fact that we can talk about technical ability and expressive ability -- and have most people know what we're talking about -- tells me that they're still two different things.

Sometimes more notes are just harder to play.

[mypasswordis]

True. I guess I've never really encountered anything I couldn't play with a bit of thinking and a bit of practice, so I sometimes take technical ability for granted. Those blasted Paganini caprices take me a damn while longer than usual, though.

Edit: Random sidetrack: I love Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini.

[Dusty Chalk]

I think you do, yes.

Marc -- you could also try googling "bach hardest" -- I found a couple of good discussions doing so, myself:

Hardest Bach Piece

Guitar Tricks - MOST DIFFICULT SONG?

[mypasswordis]

Just because you can play a note by itself doesn't mean you can play it as a 32nd note in conjunction with a couple dozen others while shifting to different positions every 2 or 3 notes, and somehow make everything sound good and unforced.

And there's plenty of music written for us by composers who didn't play our instruments. I'd go so far as to say that some of the ones that did play our instruments composed much harder to play pieces, since they knew the physical limits of the violin and the human body. Paganini, Ernst, Ysaye, etc etc.

[luvdunhill]

string players have it easy

[Dusty Chalk]

Now there's a visual I didn't need.

[luvdunhill]

Having played both, I'd never make such a broad claim, that was pretty much what I was getting at...

[luvdunhill]

i guess i should use more smilies.

I guess so. So, how hard is it to hit the C# in "Flighting"?

[luvdunhill]

high C#? hard. highly reed dependent.

I figured as nuch. I remember a good clarinetist also claiming some sort of magic reed tricks for playing the Gershwin opening glissando, as it was something much easier for someone used to playing jazz, and whatever setup might go along with playing jazz. I don't know much about it, but this sort of stuff is rather fascinating to me.

The high school joke for violinists was to play the high E on the opening of Lalo Symphonic Espagnole on the other side of the bridge. For some reason, I still find that funny.

[luvdunhill]

I've known a few violinists that think that both sides of the bridge should be in tune with each other (it's kind of hard to explain, but this has to be done via bridge placement and then the sound post location sort of follows too), so this sort of joke kind of works. I'm not sure if this is urban legend or not, but I wouldn't want to go into a luthier and request this sort of setup.. I prefer much the more scientific methods, like rapping on the back with your knuckles and what not

[mypasswordis]

Rapping the back doesn't have anything to do with string ratios/bridge placement... just has to do with checking whether or not there are any gaps or openings in the wood. The distance between the soundpost and the bridge makes huge differences in sound. Even a slightly tilted bridge makes a whole violin sound like junk, and if you're not careful, it can snap back and have the soundpost come loose, and then all of a sudden your violin doesn't look so good anymore.

I did use to play the strings on the other side of the bridge for fun, but don't really get the joke. Speaking of Lalo, I'm going to the Kennedy Center on Saturday to listen to Josh Bell play it. Not particularly excited, but live performances are nice to attend.

[luvdunhill]

I did use to play the strings on the other side of the bridge for fun, but don't really get the joke.

You must try it in context to get the joke then I guess. Basically, it's an "easy" way to play the 7th "astronomically high" note

Edited November 20, 2009 by luvdunhill

[mypasswordis]

Playing a bit of it now. It's been awhile, forgot how much I enjoyed the 5th movement.