Are all opinions equally valid?

[aerius]

I think we can all agree that audio is a pretty subjective hobby, and that we all have different tastes and preferences, not to mention that we hear differently as well. With that out of the way, we move on to what happens when we start debating the merits of various gear, I may think "gear x" sucks while someone else says it's the best damn thing since the invention of modern contraceptives. So far I think we're still in the region where it's all just opinion, and everyone's viewpoint has equal or almost equal validity to it.

But what happens when someone makes a clearly unsupportable statement and claims that it's just his opinion and that his word is worth as much as anyone elses? For instance, what if some guy says that the Grado SR60 is the best headphone ever, and that it's clearer and more detailed than a Stax Omega II? And when asked to support his claim, he says "well that's my opinion and it's as valid as anyone else's? What then?

What I'm trying to get at is this, are all opinions really equally valid, and where do we start drawing the line between subjective opinions and verifiable facts? Where's the point where you start going "look, you're a dumbass and you're full of shit"?

[hungrych]

Generally when someone states their opinion as irrefutable (even if they say it's as valid as anyone else's) it's no longer valid to me.

[Thaddy]

I like to consider the source as well. If this is coming from a person who's only heard the SR-60's and the O2's, then it's a quite unvalid statement. There are also tons of other factors that come into play as well, and a lot focus around equipment selection.

I think it's pretty easy to spot the dumbass and the well-informed poster.

[PFKMan23]

On a similar note to what equipment that they've heard, I'd also go even into what music that they like, what equipment that they like, etc.. For example I know that if someone like a brightish sound (like SA5ks) and heavy metal, they're opnion would be less valid and less applicable to me because I don't like those cans nor do I like that kind of music.

But seriously if they haven't even heard it, they really should say anything about it.

[Thaddy]

This is sort of along the same lines as this thread, but have you guys found anyone whose opinions you hold highly? I know that tkam and myself have similar tastes, and listening to gear with him has proven that we have similar ears as well (we noticed the same differences). Along with him, I've found that my opinions fall very close to those crazy bastards in New Hampshire, Nate and Ian

[PFKMan23]

I trust Earl. Even though we have fairly divergent tastes/preferences, he seems to be able to havea good feel of what I like and don't like.

[tkam]

I think Thaddy is on to something here, after being around for a little while it's pretty easy to pick out a few people whose tastes in gear and music seem to be inline with mine. So for me the opinions of those people are valid.

[Guest sacd lover]

I think Thaddy is on to something here, after being around for a little while it's pretty easy to pick out a few people whose tastes in gear and music seem to be inline with mine. So for me the opinions of those people are valid.

I seem to like tkam's stuff too. I thought his k1000 setup and the Opus 21/ SLAM/ L3000 were the two best systems at the last two Cinci meets.

[Dusty Chalk]

This is sort of along the same lines as this thread, but have you guys found anyone whose opinions you hold highly?

Ken Kessler. Not just because he's a professional audio reviewer (there are many of them whose opinions I do not hold dear), but because I've read enough of his reviews to know that he hears things similarly to the way I hear things.

It is never appropriate to say that someone is full of shit. It's at that point that you're changing the argument from one of fact to one of ego. Keep the argument about fact, and even when you're wrong, you'll be able to save face.

Look at it this way -- is there anyone out there that says "you're full of shit" a lot, whose opinion you think highly of? No, of course not -- they're just cranky people. You might feel comfortable socializing with them, but when it comes to opinions of audio gear, you'll only find those types of statements in the letters to the editors columns. The people whose opinions you do think highly of keep the argument about the facts, and state things clearly when it gets into opinion territory (such as listening impressions). And then they'll give you enough background about their listening impressions in similar situations that you'll be able to judge for yourself whether or not you hear things the same way they do.

[Chrysanthemum]

Hummmmmm! Well, that depends. ???

[aerius]

It is never appropriate to say that someone is full of shit. It's at that point that you're changing the argument from one of fact to one of ego. Keep the argument about fact, and even when you're wrong, you'll be able to save face.

Never? What if someone says that the Omega II is piercingly bright, and the brightest headphone he's ever heard, and in the next sentence says the SA5000 is rolled off and dull with less treble than an Senn 650? What if he then goes on to contradict himself multiple times in multiple ways? Would it then be appropriate to say that he's completely full of shit, and that his opinion is worth less than the turd I crapped out this morning? How does one deal with a grade A dumbass like the above?

[philodox]

The only opinion that matters is your own and to a lesser extent, your Wife's.

That said, I find that aerius and I generally arrive at the same conclusions... regardless of how we get there.

Also, thought it might not be exactly PC, I tend to accept opinions from folks with good gear more readily than someone who has crap [by my estimation].

[aerius]

Also, thought it might not be exactly PC, I tend to accept opinions from folks with good gear more readily than someone who has crap [by my estimation].

Experience is definitely a factor, but ownership ain't everything. For instance about 3 years ago the best I had was a Senn 580, but I'd heard a lot of other headphones many of which were better. My general rule of thumb is that the person should have some experience with gear that's a level up on what he's commenting on, it gives a much better idea of the strengths and especially the weaknesses of the gear in question. If I'm reviewing an SR-60 it would be nice to have a 225 so that my review is more balanced and doesn't end up being a masturbatory gushfest. Of course this isn't always possible since some of us are going off into unexplored ground, the EC Zana Deux and higher power Singlepower variations come to mind, but it's still nice to get a comparison with similarly priced gear from other makers.

[Chrysanthemum]

I seem to like tkam's stuff too. I thought his k1000 setup and the Opus 21/ SLAM/ L3000 were the two best systems at the last two Cinci meets.

Lets face it Earl, Ohio Meet Fans know their stuff and have some of the best equiptment to listen to.

[Guest sacd lover]

Lets face it Earl, Ohio Meet Fans know their stuff and have some of the best equiptment to listen to.

Right on!

[Dusty Chalk]

How does one deal with a grade A dumbass like the above?

As should be obvious my complete lack of answer to that, I have no idea. I was reminded of that (the fact that I don't have an answer) recently.

I've been dealing with an asshat on another board, here (follow-up thread, here), and short of perserverantly pointing out every little thing that he says wrong, I haven't a clue how to handle this guy. It's a matter of stamina, and he just plain has more (he also seems to care more). I just can't bring myself to do the research to reinforce what I'm saying, since I know I'm right.

Oh, and he's a moderator over there, so don't frequent there unless you're willing to get into it. The fact that the moderators are the perpetuators of misinformation is an indication of the overall class of the site, methinks. (Hmmm...that's pretty universal, too.)

I just have to hope that, as it says in my sig, truth will out. It's not my job to educate the rest of humanity, but every once in a while, I have to take potshots at the false-sayers.