SACD -- Is it worth it in a headphone rig?

[Dusty Chalk]

Well, thanks for letting me know about that.

Thirdish, the current Sony ES 7000(?) stated that it can output the DSD through e-Link/HDMI but I have not investigated that claim.

Something newer than the 5400? The 5400 does claim to be able to do so (as does the Oppo), but not sure why that is relevant.

[Sherwood]

I actually print every one of your posts, frame it, and hang it on my office wall, Greg.

In other news, my wife recently left me.

[Dusty Chalk]

She was just a beard anyway.

[DigiPete]

In other news, my wife recently left me.

Hope it wasn't 'news' to you!!

[grawk]

I think he's kidding pete

[Voltron]

The the SCD-XA9000ES super audio CD player incorporates an uncompressed digital output for the Direct Stream Digital

Edited November 6, 2009 by Voltron

[Dusty Chalk]

It's probably still encrypted -- Sony was real picky about that when Pioneer and Denon came out with their proprietary formats before HDMI came along to settle things, and I don't see them being any less picky on themselves about that, for exactly that reason (ripping).

That doesn't make it impossible, just hard.

Re: Oppo BDP-83SE -- man, if they just put a digital input on that thing (coax/HDMI/USB), that would be perfect.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Dusty Chalk

[The Monkey]

Nums, how would you compare the ULN-2 to the Esoteric D70?

[The Monkey]

Al, et al. (heh), thanks for all the info. I have looked at those Sony units before, but I think it sounds like SACD is not much longer for this earth such that I should invest. I do wish those damn Sonys had digital inputs, though.

Edited November 6, 2009 by The Monkey

[jinp6301]

Those Sony's sound damn good though

[Dusty Chalk]

Stereophile ranked the Oppo BDP-83 A+ as a transport.

[grawk]

Oppo advertises a LOT in stereophile

[Dusty Chalk]

Ah.

It also sounds pretty damn good directly out of the analog outs. To my ears.

PS I've also heard a several people say the Sony's make for pretty damn good redbook players.

[ojnihs]

fuck, nm, read that wrong

forget i said anything!

[Grahame]

One way of looking at this, is, Is it the Data/Original Bits/ "Music" you are interested in, or the replay chain associated with a given format.

If you view shiny plastic discs as a delivery mechanism, with the content being the important stuff, we can say:

• Redbook CD: content can be liberated from delivery mechanism
  
• DVD-A: content can be liberated from delivery mechanism
  
• SACD: content can be liberated from delivery mechanism - indirectly
  

However, with advances, such as mores law, and the rise of commodity distributed computing. e.g. Amazon's EC2 brings new might to password cracking ? The Register

You could say that Sony needs to be lucky always, we just need to be lucky once

SACD is still vulnerable to the Analog hole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Given a player, and ADC of your choice you could make Needle Drops (SACD Drops?) of your favorite disks, and never have to remove them from their cases again.

This raises the question , are you listening to the original bits, or artifacts of the replay process(x2) - but that's another discussion.

With the advent of unencumbered formats that support hi-rez (to the bit width/depth of your choice) and low marginal cost digital distribution (thats downloads to you) it raises the interesting question of cost vs value.

If the studios mastered in the digital domain, should it cost more or less to just release the original bits, vs the (not very onerous, admittedly) "extra" expense of downsampling/converting to a more limited resolution

(e.g. 24/96 masters vs 16/44.1 redbook)

And how hard/expensive would it be to replay the analog masters, on a decent, newly cleaned replay heads, setup, in front of a decent ADC, (or several, each running at the target sample rate/bit depth), and then selling the results?

We live in interesting times.

[blessingx]

Speaking of interesting times, Oppo just tweeted a few minutes ago...

We will be bringing you exciting product news for analog audiophiles in the next couple of days. Please stay tuned.

[Hopstretch]

Well, hell. (Looks at his "Standard Edition" BDP-83 and feels somewhat melancholy.)

[jp11801]

Nums, how would you compare the ULN-2 to the Esoteric D70?

I like the UNL-2 Mo Betta, less coloration to the sound. SO far the ULN 2 and the ULN 8 are my favorites. For the $1700 clams the MH folks want for a new unit it is a steal.

[Dusty Chalk]

You could say that Sony needs to be lucky always, we just need to be lucky once

Actually, that's not exactly accurate -- the key is dynamic, I.E. different for every disk. So we need to be lucky once per disk. Basically, most hackers look at it as not worth the effort to reverse engineer, and find a way to get at the data-stream from a legitimate SACD or universal player after it's decrypted, at which point it needs to be captured (or fed to a "DAC") in real-time.

... Needle Drops (SACD Drops?) ...

We call it "laserdropping". Edited November 6, 2009 by Dusty Chalk

[robm321]

I think the OPPO -> DAC would be a great idea.

[Cankin]

I always wonder if we will see DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD on Blu ray for audio purpose only because of their Hi-res lossless capabilities?

[Grahame]

We call it "laserdropping".

As do these people

Laserdrop

[deepak]

not super impressed with SACD from a Jazz/Rock standpoint when I had the exemplar modded 2900. I actually preferred the redbook layer of many of my dual layer discs, but I may be in the minority . Now DVD-a was a hit with me but unfortunately that format received even less support than the pitiful support SACD received.

Personally investing in SACD, DVD-a or even high end redbook is throwing money into a dead or dying format. I can see a high end redbook player over a multi player but unless you really love Classical then SACD is a resource drain that could be spent investing in computer audio playback which is absolutely the future of standard and hi-rez.

In other words just buy the Metric Halo unit already Dinny

I agree with you 100%, though my 2900 is stock.

SACD has never sounded "right" to me on any of the high resolution players I have tried. I also prefer DVD-A and I have compared SACDs and DVD-As with identical mastering.

edit:

I should also add, that another sign of the further demise of SACD, is there is currently only one SACD pressing plant in the USA.

Edited November 7, 2009 by deepak

[robm321]

I'd have to agree. In my experience DVD-A sounds better than SACD.

[jpelg]

the further demise of SACD

Shiny discs are available today. Players are available today. The real question is whether there are recordings that are best demonstrated in the SACD format, with little or no possibility of it becoming available in an alternate one in the forseable future, that are important enough to you to spend the money obtaining & playing today?

Regarding players, I never liked the early Oppos. If that's all you're willing to invest, I'd say "pass" on the SACD's. The Sony 5400 is probably the least expensive SACD player I've heard that satisfies. Haven't heard the latest Oppos though.

Also, if using multiple sources - computer, vinyl, SACD (analog-out) is part of the equation, you'll still need switching capability. Still have that Skipjack, Vincent?

my 2900 is stock. SACD has never sounded "right" to me on any of the high resolution players I have tried.

Get thee to a modder-y, my friend!

I also prefer DVD-A and I have compared SACDs and DVD-As with identical mastering.

For those extremely rare instances where the hi-res versions are available on both SACD and DVD-A. Still, your ears are better than mine, D.