Any thoughts on some of the new entrants in the highend tube amp sector?

[PFKMan23]

Hey folks, what are your thoughts on the new high end stuff like the B52, the PPX3 XLR and such like that? I've heard that the B52 will cost in the 5-6000 range, anyone hear anything directly from Ray or otherweise know anything about it? It's made the rounds at a few meets now (most recently the Boston Meet), but things seem really tight lipped about the thing. What is it exactly? A headphone amp that also has preamp functionality? A preamp that is also a good headamp? (yah yah a headamp is basically a specialized preamp, but you guys know what I mean)...

Any ideas on the tube complement? The 5687s x 4 seem to have been identified, but what about the other 4? they seem to be of the 9 pin mini type? Any ideas? A 6cg7 maybe, but it seems a bit short to be a 6cg7.. You guys think they are just 12au7 or 12ax7s?

Given that it seem to be a fairly pricey piece of gear, I think it's funny how it was compared to the PPX3 XLR at the So Cal meet which, if the single ended version is any indicator, the PPX3 should be closer to 2k rather than 5-6k. I think the Supra XLR that was brought to the Boston meet might be a more appropriate indicator, although of course that's a headphone amp (but you can add preamp functionality I suppose).... In the very least it seem to be a very mythical piece of gear as people are damned tight lipped about it. WE WANT INFO DAMMIT!!! When do you guys suppose we'll know more?

And did anyone else notice that new Raptor PSU thread?

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196085

If there was no problem with the amp, why the big update? You guys think it will improve the amp by any degree? Or is it a placebo power supply aka PPSU?

[PFKMan23]

couldn't possibly make it any worse.

Possibly.. that power supply looks really small.

[Thaddy]

There was a problem with the amp. I think it's funny how Ray is charging $200 for the "upgraded" power supply.

[PFKMan23]

There was a problem with the amp. I think it's funny how Ray is charging $200 for the "upgraded" power supply.

Yep yep. That's how I see it, he's basically charging money to correct a manufacturing defect. But do you guys have any guesses on the release date of the B52? I'm fairly curious about it.

[Dusty Chalk]

[snarky]Friday the 13th?[/snarky]

[n_maher]

But do you guys have any guesses on the release date of the B52? I'm fairly curious about it.

In Boston he said he thought it would be approximatley a month before it was brought to market. I think he said that the chassis had been finalized as well so that it was just a matter of bringing it all together.

[n_maher]

And maybe someone can explain to me why the heck you would ever mount resistors like this:

I've always been told that doing that is a bad idea.

N

[Mister X]

And maybe someone can explain to me why the heck you would ever mount resistors like this:

Primarily for Heat dissipation but it's also an attempt to keep their stray inductance from affecting the rest of the circuit.

Could he have put that switch in a worse spot?

I swear the switcher for the heaters looks exactly like an off the shelf unit.

[thrice]

You would mount them that way for heat dissapation reasons. While I've never seen any mounted that high above the board, I have seen other builders mount them above the board. When we say Jason's prototype of the Aristaeus the resistors were mounted above the board and that's the reason he stated.

[PFKMan23]

I wonder who will be the first to shock himself with that switch and the power chord port being close together. And is that just me or does that PSU look about the size of a STEPS PSU?

[aerius]

And maybe someone can explain to me why the heck you would ever mount resistors like this:

I've always been told that doing that is a bad idea.

Heat dissipation, keeps the resistors from burnng the board. Though the way he does it would never meet standards. You're supposed to bend a kink like this to keep resistors and other parts off the board instead of going straight in.

I swear the switcher for the heaters looks exactly like an off the shelf unit.

That's because it is. I can buy a switcher very similar to it for $8 at the local surplus store, in fact they might even have the exact model.

And is that just me or does that PSU look about the size of a STEPS PSU?

No, it's not just you. Scaling off the IEC socket the picture is LARGER than life-size on my 17" monitor which is set to a 1024 x 762 resolution. That Plitron transformer's probably rated at around 20-25W tops. Which means this power supply is almost as underpowered as the original one.

[justin]

aerius,

In this case, the toroid is only for the high voltage.

[aerius]

aerius,

In this case, the toroid is only for the high voltage.

I know, and IMO it's still pretty borderline at best. From spec sheets, 5687's are good for 7.5W per tube on the high voltage plates, 12AX7 is 2.4W, for a theoretical max of 17.4W. Let's say the tubes are run at about 80% of max which is typical of many modern designs, that gives 14W. Assuming a 25W donut that's not too bad, leaves about 10W for the caps & regulators. A 20W toroid and that margin's getting pretty thin. Take into account the current spikes from the caps charging up on each AC cycle and that margin's close to gone.

Personally I want the donut to be rated for at least twice the power that the tubes are pulling, and preferably 4 times or more.

[PFKMan23]

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2341515&postcount=6

That's interesting.. there's going to be more than 6 made then?

[aerius]

More thoughts on the Raptor PSU. Looking at the size of the heatsink I'd guess the regulator's giving off about 5-10W of heat, and the off-board mounting of the resistors would imply that they're dissipating about 2-3W each. So low end estimate of 11W and 19W at the high end for power being wasted in the PSU. Assuming a 25W transformer which is about the most you can hope for given its size, in a best case scenario the donut's right on its limits, and worst case it's way its rating. It looks nice, but the design is shit.

Anyways, what am I looking forward to? Earl's transformer output Singlepower, and toroidal output transformers no less. That should have serious drive & slam along with the ability to drive any headphone with ease, and with higher power tubes like the 6BL7 or 6BX7 it's going to be a beast.

[Guest sacd lover]

More thoughts on the Raptor PSU. Looking at the size of the heatsink I'd guess the regulator's giving off about 5-10W of heat, and the off-board mounting of the resistors would imply that they're dissipating about 2-3W each. So low end estimate of 11W and 19W at the high end for power being wasted in the PSU. Assuming a 25W transformer which is about the most you can hope for given its size, in a best case scenario the donut's right on its limits, and worst case it's way its rating. It looks nice, but the design is shit.

Anyways, what am I looking forward to? Earl's transformer output Singlepower, and toroidal output transformers no less. That should have serious drive & slam along with the ability to drive any headphone with ease, and with higher power tubes like the 6BL7 or 6BX7 it's going to be a beast.

Because a few of you can appreciate the signifigance .... there is even more to my plans for the transformer coupled amp. I have been looking for a true power output tube for my amps for some time. The typical 6as7/ 6c33 etc were actually designed mainly for voltage regulation and while they are good tubes I dont find them as good sounding as even the 6bl7gt/a. The 300b/2a3 are to thick and colored sounding for my tastes regardless of whether they are used OTL or transformer coupled. The Russian power tubes lack refinement. I think I can do better. So I have convinced Mikhail to build me some tube socket adapters so I can use true nos power pentodes .... run as strapped triodes.

I am going to try them OTL first but the high output impedence of these tubes may preclude some low Z headphones. I did buy a 240M / 600 ohm phone to test these tubes out with a wicked low sensitivity / high impedence load. However, the senns 300 ohm load should be more than high enough even if the pentodes output impedence is unusually high. But, without a doubt, these tubes transformer coupled will be monsters with any impedence. Aerius .... are you familiar with 6ey6/6ez5/6k6gt/12v6gt/12w6gt .... and the looker of the group the 6y6g. I have all these tubes ready to go and running strapped triode one adapter should work with all of them. Then we will potentially have amps with true power tubes, optimally loaded with transformer coupling ..... for $2-6 per tube. Best of all, these pentodes may work well OTL with most popular high impedence headphones with the current SP amps.

If this experiment works and the sound quality is there .... well .... I will let you imagine the possibilities.

[bhd812]

As with the B52 price and when its coming I have no clue myself, Hell god only knows what the b52 will look and have when it does let alone the price.. or more importantly the sound. I know Ray is working on alot of stuff and its all about where he wants it to fit in, thats where the price will come in to play.

the new power supply means Maybe we owners can get a longer cord so we have more play on where we can put the damm thing.. have not thought about it to much as I have almost no time for audio lately.

I hope Ray takes a few more months for the b52 cause I have to pay off a $2,000 credit card bill first...damm Vegas..drinking and buying a Raymond Weil watch does not go together...

If it comes down to it I have plently of headphones that have not moved in months to sell so I am in no worries but when Ray calls me saying #1 is ready and burning in then I have to have cash within a week's time (not Ray's rules..my rule). if I have to come up with $5k within a week that will mean a Grado mega Sale..lol

[aerius]

I am going to try them OTL first but the high output impedence of these tubes may preclude some low Z headphones. I did buy a 240M / 600 ohm phone to test these tubes out with a wicked low sensitivity / high impedence load. However, the senns 300 ohm load should be more than high enough even if the pentodes output impedence is unusually high. But, without a doubt, these tubes transformer coupled will be monsters with any impedence. Aerius .... are you familiar with 6ey6/6ez5/6k6gt/12v6gt/12w6gt .... and the looker of the group the 6y6g. I have all these tubes ready to go and running strapped triode one adapter should work with all of them. Then we will potentially have amps with true power tubes, optimally loaded with transformer coupling ..... for $2-6 per tube. Best of all, these pentodes may work well OTL with most popular high impedence headphones with the current SP amps.

If this experiment works and the sound quality is there .... well .... I will let you imagine the possibilities.

The 12W6 & 12V6 I'm rather familiar with because I recently bought up the entire surplus shop's stock for my own uses. I have a rough build (push-pull design) using the ECC40 as the input & phase-splitter with the 12W6 in triode mode and it sounds pretty nice, but I'm running into distortion issues at higher volumes since the ECC40 is pretty underpowered. Killer with Grados, not so good with my K340, I'll probably put a 12SN7 or 6BL7 in the phase-splitter/driver slot next and see how that works out. Results are promising so far. I can't wait to see how your amp turns out.

[PFKMan23]

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2343018&postcount=3

So he's using their existing chasis and power chords? And has the tenacity to charge for shipping?

[Thaddy]

God I wish just once someone would call him out on this fucking scam.

It won't be me, as I have 0 technical knowledge on how those things work

Plus I'm afraid of his mustache...

[Guest sacd lover]

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2343018&postcount=3

So he's using their existing chasis and power chords? And has the tenacity to charge for shipping?

$200 to fix a design flaw.

[aerius]

$200 to fix a design flaw.

He's obviously taken lessons from the Microsoft school of business, there's profit to be made in selling a bugfix as an upgrade.

[Chrysanthemum]

Well, I know for a fact that Ray approached another "well known fine amp maker" at the SoCal meet, and told him he should charge a lot more for his amps cause it's making my amps look bad and "over priced" and your hurting the business. Oh yeah, I don't think Ray offered to do an A/B box test with his B52 and this other persons amp either.

[en480c4]

I can only hope that the case that the prototype B52 is travelling around in is not going to be the final enclosure. Or if it is, that a change of color (ie: black) will improve its looks. It struck me as being a bit too much. I definitely prefer the understated style of Singlepower and Headamp enclosures, and even the kidney bean HeadRoom stuff. The B52's current enclosure has so much going on... lots of lights, lots of bezels and lots of visible fasteners, most of which looked cramped as the units are much smaller in person than I expected. It never looked bad to me in pictures, but in person I was very meh about the whole thing. Actually, that's understating things... I thought it bordered on tacky.

[Thaddy]

I'll bet if Mikhail would add wings and a propellor to his amps, he's get more sales.