Fang's new orthos shipping

[mrarroyo]

Part II – January 24, 2010

Today I decided to roll some tubes on the EF5 starting with a TungSol 12AU7. I also decided to:

[*]Remove the “cage” around the tube to facilitate the rolling of tubes. IMO the “cage” not only makes the rolling of tubes more difficult than it needs to but it also impedes cooling of the tube. Although in all honesty the tube in this amp barely gets warm.

[*]I installed a Herbies Halo, not so much because it helps in all situations but because I happen to have a few laying around and they do look cool.

[*]Like the EF1 I feel the Plexiglas “window” although nice to look at does not allow for optimal cooling. The EF5 does have additional cooling via slits on the sides and bottom. Nonetheless I opted to install an o-ring under each of the four screws holding the Plexiglas “window” thus adding an small air-gap all around it. Time will tell if it helps or not.

[*]Replace all four plastic feet from both the power supply and the amp section. One thing that has bothered me a lot with both the EF1 and EF5 (it is nitpicking I know) are the hard plastic feet used. These feet do hold the amp in place when you insert or retract the

[CarlSeibert]

Miguel loaned me a great treasure chest of stuff, including his HE-5s and two amps, neither one of which I had ever heard. My long weekend with his headphones turned into listening to the HE-5s on five, count 'em five amps. So this post is awful long. My apologies in advance.

Standard disclaimers apply - my ears, system, prejudices and choice of beverages. If I insult your favorite piece of gear remember also that there's the possibility that I'm just a complete buffoon. That said, here's what I thought:

First off, the phones are drop dead gorgeous. Workmanship and the quality of the wood is even better on Miquel's pair than Colin's. I don't know if the the Hippocase they were packed in came with them or if it's Miguel's. But if it comes with the cans, kudos to Fang. That's how to package headphones! When I opened the Hippocase, the HE-5s made an R-10-like impression on Bonnie, as in "Oh my. Five thousand dollar headphones!" (It's a sad note on how broke we are after a year of recession, that there was no immediate tone of alarm in her voice. Right now, there is no such thing as $5,000 headphones. Not around here anyway.)

Miguel's HE-5s sounded different to me than Colin's. Some people have mentioned disparate issues - sibilance, which I heard sometimes on Miguel's but not on Colin's, and veiling (John heard that on, I think, Wayne's pair, but Miguel's pair are transparent and nuanced in spades) I wonder if there are sample-to-sample variations.

Overall, I was very impressed with the the HE-5s, either Colin's pair or Miguel's. They have gobs of resolution, are coherent and musical, and with an amp that really compliments them they could be among the very best. And at a really reasonable price.

Miguel listens to a lot of jazz. So do I. I spun some jazz to understand his comments, but mostly stuck to stuff that was non-jazz for diversity of opinion's sake. There was alt-this and alt-that, some blues, some rock, some folk and just a smattering of jazz.

I started with my Woo WA6SE:

I immediately found fault with the sound with this combination - and then listened to it for four hours. So it must not have sucked that badly. On the Woo, the HE-5s sounded kind of discombobulated, as if the sound of not all of the same cloth. There was the rising top end that Miguel mentioned, a zingy sibilance every once in a while, and bass was light and slow, leading to an overall light-feeling tonal balance. But in the midrange and treble generally, the Woo sang. Holy crap, there was nuance and inner detail galore. The treble, while being too forward, was rendered in exquisite detail. Cymbals sounded like cymbals, not like white noise or a mobile ring-tone. On the Cowboy Junkies' 'Whites Off earth Now', the drum set was about two feet closer to the mike than it already was, but you were THERE. (Whether being three feet from a drum set is a good thing or not is open to debate, of course.) Timber of midrange-y instruments (guitars, female voice) were spot on and wonderfully differentiated. I played duet after duet. The interplay of voices was exquisite. Bass strings purred like real ones. The fundamental was goofed up, but there was a feeling of "real" that was tough to argue with. Soundstaging and imaging were superb. There was a solidity to images, their sizes, and the relationship between them that surpassed what I'm used to. There was a palpable sense of the "reality" (even if it never was) of the space that music was recorded in - as much as such a thing can be through headphones. Somehow, the things that were done superbly made up for the weirdness and there was an effective emotional connection to the music.

Next up was the EF-5. First off, I tried my K-701s as some sort of baseline test. That was not exactly a match made in heaven. The combination sounded like 701s on an amp they don't like - which is a lot of them.

With the HE-5s, this amp brought back the mid-bass slam and PRAT that were AWOL with the Woo. In the mids and treble, though, there wasn't enough nuance and detail to match the better bass. I didn't find the combination as emotionally involving as the the Woo. I didn't listen as long to the EF-5. My friend Alan stopped by on Saturday. He called the sound with this amp "a big, round, EL-34 sort of thing". Not words I would have used, but an interesting way of putting it. Alan didn't feel attracted to spend much time with the EF-5, either.

Next up was my nameless 10 WPC push-pull speaker amp. It doesn't have a brand name, but I do have the schematic. It has a headphone output, which is just a 300 ohm resistor in series with its 8 ohm speaker output terminals. On listening, it was "So that's where the fundamentals are!" Given the power to drive them there, these cans are articulate and detailed on r-e-a-l-l-y low notes. This amp rolls off on top, so the rising treble of the HE-5s wasn't an issue for good or bad. It wasn't as dynamic-sounding as the EF-5, but it wasn't bad. There just wasn't quite enough upper midrange "verity" to get the job done emotionally, or to feel quite balanced with the bottom, for that matter. This amp has promise as a mate for the HE-5s. More appropriate input tubes and some tweaks here and there may realize it. But for now, it was mostly interesting in that it showed just how well the HE-5s can do way down low.

After I had already packed up Miguel's gear to return to him, I unpacked the HE-5s and gave the speaker amp another, longer, listen. This time, I was more impressed by this combination. Eventually, I came around to the conclusion that all that was wrong was that this amp/headphone combination just rolled off too much top end. Get the top couple octaves back in reasonable balance and this pair could go the distance. Hmmm.

Then came the Graham Slee Solo. I wasn't familiar with this little amp at all. Miguel warned me that it takes the best part of a day to warm up, so I plugged it in and left it on overnight before I touched it. With the Musical Fidelity still waiting in the wings, the Graham Slee instantly became the star of the show to that point. This little amp kept enough of the EF-5's bass punch and brought the midrange goods to make that emotional connection. You will not get through James McMurty's "Ruby and Carlos" without crying with the HE-5s through this amp. If you do that and get all gooey, spin Dave's True Story's "Stormy" and get in touch with your inner sociopath. You'll feel better. This emotional connection stuff can work in different and mysterious ways. There was oodles of resolution - real, not etch-a-sketch. Soundstaging was good, but not as great as it was through the Woo. It didn't have the stunning resolution in the treble of the Woo and it doesn't have the extension and nuance in the bass of the speaker amp, but it struck a balance that's musically "right". Quite right indeed. I'd be listening to this for a few more hours.

My MF X-Can V3 turned out to be a non-starter with these phones. It was less of the same. Not quite as good in the bass as the EF-5 and nowhere near the resolution of either the Woo or the Graham Slee. The Musical Fidelity was left out in the cold.

Then it was time to just listen for fun after all this serious business. I went back to my own cans on my own rig. For a song or two. Then I plugged in Miguel's HE-5s again and listened to them for another couple hours. These are real, real nice cans. Apart from the slightly hot treble (that may not affect every sample), they can, when the mood and the amp moves them, do everything superbly. They are real quick. They're transparent and coherent. With the right super-duper amp, I'll bet they'll be able to do everything right all at the same time and be a true statement headphone. And like I said, I'm being kind of hard on the amps. They didn't exactly suck on my amp. In a lot of ways, they shamed my current headphones.

If either/any of my amps had hit it off with the HE-5s as well as the Graham Slee Solo did, I'd be ordering a pair tomorrow. But alas, it was not love at first plug-in for either of them. Cue the violins.

I'll hold off on new phones until I've got the ExStata built and see what the stat world holds. By then maybe Fang will have the next iteration out and maybe they'll be a bit more amp-agnostic.

[K3cT]

I took a listen to the HE-5 out of a balanced ϐ22 and was pretty impressed despite the obvious (and annoying) peak at the upper-midrange region. The HE-5 is forward, lively with tons of clarity and resolution. Unfortunately, that peakiness gets tiring after prolonged listening so it could be a deal-breaker for me.

However, the HD800 that I auditioned with side-by-side pretty much destroyed it so I'm honestly not sure what the folks at HF who claimed that the HE-5 > HD800 were thinking.

[Voltron]

Thanks for the detailed notes, Carl. Interesting findings and sounds like you had fun with it. I am a bit concerned by how much these cans seem to vary from unit to unit, and their amping needs seem to be both substantial and quite particular. I was unimpressed by my albeit short listening attempts. Claiming these cans are better than the HD800 is silly, imo.

[tkam]

I like the HE-5's but they aren't a typical load compared to most headphones, they are low impedance and inefficient. I wouldn't say they are better than the HD800 as they are so different. To me the best way to describe them is that they have the speed and clarity of good Stax with the weight in the low-end of good dynamics.

Edited January 25, 2010 by tkam

[mypasswordis]

Here's some graphs, pics, and comparisons for ya: Google Translate

[luvdunhill]

The HE-5 is forward

I agree with Voltron. QC must be all over the map, or people have very different impressions of forward.

[cetoole]

I agree with Voltron. QC must be all over the map, or people have very different impressions of forward.

I dont know about the first, though just guessing I would suspect the manufacturing tolerances to be looser than one of the major companies. I would hazard a guess that the most difficult part of manufacturing for them to control is the diaphragm tension, which will make a huge difference. The second I am pretty confident is true.

[swt61]

Something has to be up, because the pair I heard (same as Marc) were at least as layed back as the Senn.650. No one would call this particular pair forward sounding! Now I really need to hear an established 'good' pair through my β22. Top end seems rolled off too, so you guys are definitely listening to something other than what Marc and I did.

These were very un-orthodynamic sounding.

[mrarroyo]

swt6 and Voltron if you would like to listen to my HE5 and the Solo SRGII send me a PM so we can arrange it. The only thing is that today I sent a bunch of stuff (including the Solo SRGII) to two members in Head Fi and the items will not be back until the first week in March.

Note: My HE5's right ear-pad started to come undone yesterday. Specifically the cloth is separating from the plastic ring, same as another pair belonging to an HF member. I have been told by Fang that a new ear-pad is on the way so that is good!

[swt61]

I may take you up on that Miguel, but it may be a while before I'm ready for them anyway. I'll need to have an adapter made for my 4 pin XLR jack on the Beta22, and I need to find enough time to evaluate them properly.

[Voltron]

Thanks Miguel, but I'm not really interested in pursuing them. Too many cans, not enough time as it is.

[luvdunhill]

I agree with Steve. The most un-ortho sounding ortho I've heard. I'm pretty confused by various listening impressions I've heard...

[mypasswordis]

I'm starting to think there never was an HE5 created in this world. Everything is just in our minds, and the sound sig is from deep within our subconscious.

[K3cT]

I agree with Voltron. QC must be all over the map, or people have very different impressions of forward.

It was definitely more forward sounding than the HD800 I heard with. Vocals were upfront, a bit Grado-ish you might say in this area.

The variance between unit to unit is intriguing though and perhaps could be very much true considering for example, some people hear peakiness in the HE-5 and some do not. There is another pair that someone in the local circle owns so perhaps I could garner a listen to it and see if there's any difference or not.

[CarlSeibert]

I may take you up on that Miguel, but it may be a while before I'm ready for them anyway. I'll need to have an adapter made for my 4 pin XLR jack on the Beta22, and I need to find enough time to evaluate them properly.

I think it would be illuminating, 'cause I swear it seemed to me that Miguel's pair and Colin's pair sounded different. Although a month so elapsed between listening to one and then the other.

And I think it's true that no two people hear treble stuff the same way, especially with headphones. And for damn sure we don't tend to describe what we hear quite the same way. So sample-to-sample variations in ears are probably at play here, too.

[HeadphoneAddict]

Great impressions Carl. I debated whether to post the following, because I've been beat down enough times by others here to not enjoy the consequences of posting my impressions of gear anymore. I agree that amp synergy with the HE-5 is important, and not all amps mate well with them. I have tried several amps with them over the past few weeks.

I think Miguel's Solo SRG II did very well with the HE-5, and it has more power to drive them than my standard WA6 (non-SE). And I agree, the HE-5 are certainly not recessed, but are slightly forward. But with my WA6 with pseudo dual power supply and Sophia 274B I don't feel like I get the zingy treble or the light slow bass you described with your WA6SE. It certainly beats the EF5 in all but power. It could be my tubes (RCA 6DE7/Sophia), or our sources (PS Audio DLIII), my preferences, or previous hypothesized manufacturing variances; but the WA6 was a little more refined and spacious with the HE-5 than the Solo SRG II, although not nearly as powerful. I'd have expected your WA6SE to be better than my WA6 in most or all areas, and with higher output levels like the SRG II.

I'm also finding the SAC KH1000 amp (bought for my K1000) sounds better with the HE-5 than the SRG II or EF5. It has great power, control, speed and definition with the HE-5, just like with the K1000. The problem is while the SAC balance and power is good with HE-5, the micro-detail and transparency could stand to be just a little better, although it does beat the EF5. The ZDT is even better with the HE-5, but I don't have as much opportunity to head downstairs to listen, since the kids took over the basement and my disability has been a little worse. The ZDT puts off too much heat to move to the bedroom where it would sit less than 2 feet from my chair, and my wife would be happy to get the remainder of my gear out of our bedroom and into the basement.

I did feel like the EF5 is tuned well enough for the HE-5 sound signature and power demands, and it isn't bad with them for a budget amp. I believe that Fang says the HE-5 need an amp that can put out 2 watts into 32 ohms, so I assume the EF5 can (so does the ZDT). But while decent, the EF5 still ranks last among the other amps I mention here. And, just like Carl didn't feel the EF5 was a good match for the K701, I found the HD800 didn't pair well with the EF5 either. With HD800, a Mullard long plate 12AU7 is an improvement to the bright highs the stock tube gave me, but the bass is not as crisp and the amp becomes even more forward sounding. This change didn't work too well with the HE-5. I do have several other tubes I can try eventually.

And, I hate to say anything nice about an SP amp these days, but my Sq Wave XL is a fantastic match for the HE-5 now, as the amp is transformed by the 12v Sigma 22 PSU that I picked up to replace the stock sagging/humming PSU that died over Xmas. I haven't tried it with anything else yet since I only received the S22 today, but the Sq Wave might actually pair with the HE-5 better than most of the amps here at home, except for the ZDT. My impressions may change as I listen to this more over a few days. Still, it doesn't count as Mikhail had his hands in it and they are made no more, the evil bastage. We don't even know if he designed the circuit, but unfortunately we know he built it. When the PSU failed it was no surprise when he didn't respond to my emails and his voice mailbox was full.

The improvement with the S22 PSU made me think of how I should have tried my 24v S11 PSU with the Solo SRG II while it was here, to see if that made it even better. The Solo had the PSU1 included, so I thought that should be good enough at the time. And since the amp wasn't mine I didn't want to risk finding something unexpected that would hurt the amp. I can say the Solo SRG II worked better this time around with a wider variety of cans than the original Solo SRG that Miguel sent me to try, and it's definitely worth consideration in it's price range. I would still take my WA6 over the SRG II, despite the lesser power, because I listen to more than just the HE-5 with it - the WA6 seems to sound good with most of my full size phones and IEM. I would not be unhappy with the Solo SRG II, however, like the SAC and EF5, the Solo is too noisy for using with my IEM (the WA6 and Sq Wave are great with IEM). For driving the HE-5 I preferred the SAC over the Solo SRG II or EF5, but for HD800 and RS-1 the SRG II was better than the SAC or EF5. One issue I found with the SRG II was that the treble would become slightly strident at very high volumes with my HE-5, which did not happen with the other amps. But at very loud but not extremely loud volumes this was not an issue.

Anyways, with HE-5 and the right amp I think the string bass speed, texture and resonances are spot on - and impact is nice. Pianos sound dynamic and clean with no edginess, and notes hang in the air after the keys are struck, with the notes fading slowly as the strings lose their energy (guitars too). Vocals and reed instruments are rich, vibrant and warm. Cymbals have the right tone, ring, shimmer and decay that I expect (lower treble tone is slightly off with the SAC). Detail is great, and imaging is nice and solid and spacious. I still prefer my HD800/ZDT for their wonderfully large soundstage, but the HE-5 are probably my second or third favorite dynamic can.

---

Weird, my margins were smaller than everyone elses, then fixed themselves when I edited the post...

[GPH]

I'm intrigued by these headphones, impressions are all over the place and I can't quite figure out if they'd fit with my tastes. I read a few reviews mentioning a hot treble, but now some guys here are saying they are laid back and I can't see these two things being true at the same time unless I don't get the meaning of "hot treble". I believe there's a guy with a pair in Montreal, I'll have to try them at our next meet.

I debated whether to post the following, because I've been beat down enough times by others here to not enjoy the consequences of posting my impressions of gear anymore.

You're confusing "being beaten down" with "not being able to take criticism".

[morphsci]

I debated whether to post the following, because I've been beat down enough times by others here to not enjoy the consequences of posting my impressions of gear anymore.

You're confusing "being beaten down" with "not being able to take criticism".

It also may be that people do not think that every set of impressions requires a laundry list of what gear you have, what gear you want, why you cannot purchase it and random Blutarskyisms.

[HeadphoneAddict]

It also may be that people do not think that every set of impressions requires a laundry list of what gear you have, what gear you want, why you cannot purchase it and random Blutarskyisms.

Would you agree that it helps to list what you used to listen to a headphone, because it will sound different with different gear? How else can I share my impressions of the HE-5 with different gear, if I can't list the gear? If I wanted to show off my gear it would be listed in my sig line here and on other forums, so it's not about that. And somehow I managed to leave Bluto out of the above comparisons, but it might have become Naamanfisms if he had not moved to Kansas.

[morphsci]

Would you agree that it helps to list what you used to listen to a headphone, because it will sound different with different gear? How else can I share my impressions of the HE-5 with different gear, if I can't list the gear? If I wanted to show off my gear it would be listed in my sig line here and on other forums, so it's not about that. And somehow I managed to leave Bluto out of the above comparisons, but it might have become Naamanfisms if he had not moved to Kansas.

[skullguise]

^^^ I will have trouble sleeping tonight...... :Puke-Smiley:

[CarlSeibert]

I believe that Fang says the HE-5 need an amp that can put out 2 watts into 32 ohms

Zowie. This explains a lot.

^^^ I will have trouble sleeping tonight...... :Puke-Smiley:

Right-click | Save Image As

[Currawong]

Great impressions Carl. I debated whether to post the following, because I've been beat down enough times by others here to not enjoy the consequences of posting my impressions of gear anymore.

I thought you only got beaten when you re-posted reviews of gear built by people who can't solder a piece of wire to a connector.

I appreciate your reviews, though agree with Asr to the effect that you need to try a much more serious DAC sometime.

I wouldn't call the HE-5s I have "forward". The mids are a bit further back than with my HD-800s and somewhat further back than the Magnums. It has a nice balance between sounding wide and intimate which is hard to describe. I use mine only from the Audiovalve RKV via the impedance adaptor, as it seems to be a great match with them. I think this means the HD-800s will be the sacrifice for the RK, as the Magnums are now my "fast and detailed" headphones of choice.

[Voltron]

Great impressions Carl. I debated whether to post the following, because I've been beat down enough times by others here to not enjoy the consequences of posting my impressions of gear anymore.

*BIG GIANT SNIP*

And yet you did it anyway.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7520/youcanleadahorsetowateran2.jpg

'nuff said.