Fang's new orthos shipping

[deepak]

Are the 404LE some fotm on headfi or something

[mypasswordis]

I'd certainly like for it to be. That way hopefully I can pick up one used for cheap(er) next year when some new FOTMs roll around.

[deepak]

Can a silver cable really polish the turd that is the 404?

[guzziguy]

A polished turd is still a turd, it's just shiny.

[mypasswordis]

Can a silver cable really polish the turd that is the 404?

Say what you will, but I like the SR-404 more than the O2 out of an SRM-1/Mk2 and I remember Colin saying something to the effect that running the O2 out of a BH doesn't add much treble at all so I may just plain prefer the 404 to the O2. Plus, Birgir says there's more difference to the sound than can be attributed just by a cable change and even a driver remount with damping like he did with the SR-404, so Stax probably tweaked the drivers.

[deepak]

Say what you will, but I like the SR-404 more than the O2 out of an SRM-1/Mk2 and I remember Colin saying something to the effect that running the O2 out of a BH doesn't add much treble at all so I may just plain prefer the 404 to the O2. Plus, Birgir says there's more difference to the sound than can be attributed just by a cable change and even a driver remount with damping like he did with the SR-404, so Stax probably tweaked the drivers.

Oh I am a fan of quality silver cables, I'm not knocking the cable. But I'm also skeptical that the drivers were tweaked (I'll believe it if Birgir says they are, he has modded a 404LE hasn't he?). My take is that sales on the current Lambda lineup were slow and they reinvented an old product to make some money. Creating a black enclosure from existing molds and replacing a cable is probably a lot cheaper for them than redesigning drivers.

I'll have to disagree with Colin that there isn't much difference between the SRM-1mk2 and BH with the treble. I compared someone's SR-007 mk1 side by side with his SRM-1 and the BHSE, the BHSE had far more presence from upper midrange up. Not sure why the O2 was brought into this though, but it seems it always is when discussing Stax

[mypasswordis]

At least half the people on this board own or have owned one, so it seemed like a good benchmark. The cable is just SPC I'm pretty sure, not full-blown silver. The pads are also different, though (real leather). The enclosure might even be slightly redesigned to fit that 404LE badge. And that's just on the outside; if the drivers are also tweaked the 404LE could be quite different sounding from the 404. And I'm pretty sure Birgir only modded the 404, not the 404LE.

[spritzer]

The cable has a copper core but a thick layer of silver on top of that, similar to what APS and others are doing. It's probably a fine cable but I don't buy into that it has changed the sound this much. I'd rather say that the SR-404LE uses the same drivers as the SR-SC1 and thus sounds more like the older phones. The thinner pads might make a difference but on the SR-404 I modded I also used the newer, thinner pads and they sounded pretty much the same. I would like to try the cable on a SR-007 though...

[mrarroyo]

I have continued to use the EF5/HE5 combo and they have over 400 hours of combined burn-in and on the head time. The sound has not changed for a while and I do not foresee them changing unless I swap tubes (still using the stock one).

Over the last week I have started to notice the top end is too energetic to my liking. Why now and not earlier? Who knows, so on a whim I tried the HE5 out of the Solo SRGII and I found the sound much to my liking besting that out of the EF5 (same source). This surprised me because the Solo SRGII does not produce a lot of power, yet to me it sounds more refined and the frequencies are more balanced with each other.

I still think the $900 price for the EF5/HE5 combo is a nice deal, hopefully Fang will improve upon the sound/cost ratio in the months to come.

[mypasswordis]

The cable has a copper core but a thick layer of silver on top of that, similar to what APS and others are doing. It's probably a fine cable but I don't buy into that it has changed the sound this much. I'd rather say that the SR-404LE uses the same drivers as the SR-SC1 and thus sounds more like the older phones. The thinner pads might make a difference but on the SR-404 I modded I also used the newer, thinner pads and they sounded pretty much the same. I would like to try the cable on a SR-007 though...

Hm, do you know Stax could end up with Airbow drivers, which I think are just cryo'd 404 drivers? Maybe they cryo'd it themselves? Not sure how much difference that would make either. There are quite a few tweaks to the original 404, I just don't know if/how much any of them make a difference in sound.

Strange how some people keep describing the HE5 as bright. Two people did compare their HE5s and one did end up being brighter than the other, so I guess QC isn't great.

[dBel84]

There was no question in my mind that the HE5 I heard had a 5-7KHz bump. I vote for an accessible cup for damping/modding. Better yet - an ortho iem ..dB

[spritzer]

Hm, do you know Stax could end up with Airbow drivers, which I think are just cryo'd 404 drivers? Maybe they cryo'd it themselves? Not sure how much difference that would make either. There are quite a few tweaks to the original 404, I just don't know if/how much any of them make a difference in sound.

My guess is a different driver (mylar tension that is) but the only way to confirm this would be to get our hands on replacement drive units as they would be clearly marked. As for the cryo, I'd file that under marketing and nothing else.

[Deadneddz]

What differences are there regarding mylar tension besides control over the diaphrams depending on the varying amounts of power?

[mypasswordis]

Less tension = more bass and resonant frequencies, which makes sense in the 404 since there's a bass hump and an upper mid/lower treble peak. More tension does the opposite, obviously. Less bass, less resonance. It also is harder to drive, but more linear with faster decay.

[dBel84]

This is also the case with Orthos - the wharfedale ID2 / Leak L3000 have impressively taught drivers - very hard to drive but incredible speed. Bass was an issue initially but some persistent modding changed all that.

I know the LCD1 was quite tight , suspect the HE5 is tensioned but not sure if it is to the same degree.

..dB

[Deadneddz]

More tension does the opposite, obviously. Less bass, less resonance. It also is harder to drive, but more linear with faster decay.

I thought it was the opposite when it comes to driving. More tension=better control over the drivers when using less power compared to using the same power with a less tensioned driver. Perhaps i'm confusing driving the transducer with controlling the transducer?

[mypasswordis]

More tensioned drivers need more power for the same amount of excursion. I'm not really sure how to measure 'control' other than I guess damping factor, depending on what it is referring to.

dBel, I think you're right about the LCD1 and HE5 as well since that's what it sounded like to me. The resonant frequencies are of course typically much lower on orthos because the diaphragms are much thicker. The 5-7kHz is a bit of a mystery to me since even though there is a reflex dot of sorts on the backs of every HE5 I did not hear that peak. Again, if only the HE5 could be opened up to be modded...

[spritzer]

What differences are there regarding mylar tension besides control over the diaphrams depending on the varying amounts of power?

There are many variables at play here, the breakup frequency of the drivers being the number one culprit. Power isn't really a factor here as that is more dependent on damping and the electrical characteristics of the driver which change very little as you alter the tension. Even though the mylar is "loose" it doesn't move a whole lot, rather it vibrates.

[Shahrose]

dBel, I think you're right about the LCD1 and HE5 as well since that's what it sounded like to me. The resonant frequencies are of course typically much lower on orthos because the diaphragms are much thicker. The 5-7kHz is a bit of a mystery to me since even though there is a reflex dot of sorts on the backs of every HE5 I did not hear that peak. Again, if only the HE5 could be opened up to be modded...

I don't hear that peak either. My HE-5 went from being HD650 level (or a bit worse) to significantly better than them in about 20 hours of pink noise burn-in. It was definitely the most dramatic change I've heard from burn-in in a pair of headphones.

I think most people would be surprised to hear that the HE-5s are as smooth as the HD650 in my system without being veiled and rolled off. I'm surprised at the amount of complaints of sibilance when mine are more forgiving of badly recorded treble than the HD650s.

As mypasswordis mentioned, it could be QC variations among units, the listener's source/amp being revealed, the differential sensitivity to certain areas in the upper frequency spectrum or a combination of all of the above and more.

All I know is I love mine. It's hard to slip into hyperbole when describing these, but they are a pretty big step up from the HD650s (to use a ubiquitous headphone as a benchmark).

[Smeggy]

The Fostex T50RP isn't very taut though it can be loosened a bit by dismantling and putting it back together.

[mypasswordis]

All I know is I love mine. It's hard to slip into hyperbole when describing these, but they are a pretty big step up from the HD650s (to use a ubiquitous headphone as a benchmark).

Great that you enjoy the HE-5 so much and your description of the treble matches what I heard well. I'm definitely going to buy one of the new orthos next year--by which there may be some newer new orthos out and about--once my self-inflicted headphone purchase ban is lifted. If there is a QC issue it will hopefully be resolved by then.

The Fostex T50RP isn't very taut though it can be loosened a bit by dismantling and putting it back together.

Did you mean that it is very taut? It certainly isn't very bassy and muddy like some stock orthos are.

[Kabeer]

Did you mean that it is very taut? It certainly isn't very bassy and muddy like some stock orthos are.

Oh that T50rp driver can dish out bass!! As much or more than any other ortho around.

[wualta]

Are you speaking of the T50RPmkIIn in its native dress or in a custom Smegclosure?

[Kabeer]

Are you speaking of the T50RPmkIIn in its native dress or in a custom Smegclosure?

T50RPmkIIn in Smeggy's Saturday dress

[Smeggy]

In it's new clothes it can dish out really monster bass, way too much if you're not careful. The driver diaphragm is not very tight to start with and running them hard loosens them up more.